Round 2, Vote 10 (HOH Top Defensemen)

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Probably nothing. How does "his league" compare to the NHL? Enlighten me because I really don't know.

Well, Suchy outscored Vaclav Nedomansky in his best season, when he led the entire league (not just defensemen) in scoring. Should give some indication as to his offensive ability. He also outscored some prominent Russian forwards during his best tournaments, though I can't recall the exact details. I have a bit to add to the discussion on Suchy. It's quite interesting, I think, though may not really be useful to determining how great he was. I wrote David Luksu (the author of the Czech language biography on Suchy) and asked him some questions about the player. He graciously answered me. Here is the text:

Jan Suchy´s most famous international goal was the first one against USSR in WCH 1969 (CSSR vs. USSR 2:0 - the second one scored Josef Cerny and Suchy had an assist). Unfortunately the second game against Russia (4:3 fo Czechoslovakia) Suchy missed because of fracture of little finger (while blocking shot in the previous game vs. USA).

I read somewhere that Suchy was european Bobby Orr, and I think that it´s true in some aspects. At the first place he was very smart skater (better then most of the forwards that times), that´s why it wasn´t easy to go through him. He had good positional play in defence and also great stability on skates. He wasn´t tall (170 cm), so his kind of play had to be different from the physical force hockey practiced by giant russian backs like Ragulin. He played on the edge of sacrifice (blocking shots, fighting around goal...), when you look at these old games, you could not miss him: he was right at the center of action, one time in defence, and than in a few seconds on the other side of ring shooting on goal. He put everything in to the game: it´s clearly visible from the pictures shows "hardworking" Suchy with grimace of the warrior:o)) His speciality was sudden counter attack (I don´t know how to better say in English) - he was able to recognize when It´s the right time for offence and he could play like fourth forward (somebody called it false winger).
He had good technical skills with stick, but he prefered combination with his teammates (most of the time Holik brothers and Jan Klapac).

I think that Suchy wasn´t really the first one european defencemen who blocked shots (I heard that for example Frantisek Tikal did it occasionally), but he used this technique more often than anybody else before - it was a full-value part of his play. In communist Czechoslovakia there was no informations about NHL at all, so he couldn´t follow any oversea model. He is saying that he started to blocking shots by oneself.

Suchy was more passer than shooter. There wasn´t so much power in his shooting (rarely use slapshot), so he prefered wrist shot, which was fast enough and quite accurate.

Sorry for mistakes, my English isn´t so good. I will write you more later.... I´m sending you also English summary which was the part of our Jan Suchy´s biography Souska, hope you could use it.

So there you go...a bit of flavor on Suchy from his Czech biographer. Probably resolves nothing as to where he belongs on this list, but still interesting.
 

Pear Juice

Registered User
Dec 12, 2007
807
6
Gothenburg, SWE
Well, Suchy outscored Vaclav Nedomansky in his best season, when he led the entire league (not just defensemen) in scoring. Should give some indication as to his offensive ability. He also outscored some prominent Russian forwards during his best tournaments, though I can't recall the exact details. I have a bit to add to the discussion on Suchy. It's quite interesting, I think, though may not really be useful to determining how great he was. I wrote David Luksu (the author of the Czech language biography on Suchy) and asked him some questions about the player. He graciously answered me. Here is the text:



So there you go...a bit of flavor on Suchy from his Czech biographer. Probably resolves nothing as to where he belongs on this list, but still interesting.
The counterattack he talks about has been the Czech's specialty as far back as I know. Even this day it's always the main focal point when Sweden faces the Czech Republic, how to deal with the lightning quick skaters on their patented counterattack. The fact that Suchy was instrumental in that counterattack speaks volumes of his quick and agile skating abilities.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,982
Brooklyn
Don't agree with you very often Hardyvan but kind of support you on this one.

There has been quite a bit of pimpimg for Suchy and he might make it this round. Personally, I see it as a "lets be politically correct and get another European non-NHL guy in". I find it very hard to slot Suchy into a top 60 of all time list.

It has nothing to do with being PC. It just doesn't make sense to me that Vasiliev and Kasatonov would be top 40 defensemen but no other non-NHL Euro would be top 60.

And I do put stock into the word of Europeans that Suchy peaked higher than Kasatonov and possibly Vasiliev, as well.
 

Reks

Registered User
Oct 23, 2006
247
2
The soviets for sure had some nice players in 72 but I don't think that the Soviets had anybody that was the equal of Hull & Orr. This was proven in 76.

A team that Soviets sent to Canada Cup 76 was a joke. No Mikhailov, no Petrov, no Kharlamov, no Yakushev ... If 76 Canadians were so great they should won agianst that Soviet team at least 8:1, not 3:1. They also lost one game to Czechs 1:0.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,974
16,574
Murphy seemed awfully dispensable wherever he went.

i am not a murphy supporter at all, in fact i could go either way on him being on the hhof-- because of the higher standard for dmen. but in terms of being dispensible, twice he joined a team and they immediately won back to back cups. he was never a key guy, but it's kind of the opposite of coffey, whose teams quickly won cups three times after he left. a more modern comparable might be zubov but with everything (longevity, all-star nods, cups) multiplied by two. a very good player, and a guy you could definitely win with, but not a guy you'd consider untouchable by a longshot. but part of that might have been that both murphy and zubov had the kinds of skill sets that made them underrated by gms (as opposed to a guy zubov was traded for and clearly superior to in hindsight, kevin hatcher, who had th kind of skill set that gms often overrate).
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,982
Brooklyn
Guess a lot of people didn't notice the new deadline. Looks like I'll have to extend voting.

Votes received from: BiLLYShOE1721; Canadiens1958; Dennis Bonvie; Der Kaiser; Hardyvan123; intylerwetrust; JaysCyYoung; MXD; overpass; pappyline; reckoning; TheDevilMadeMe; tony D; VanIslander

Needs votes from: chaosrevolver; DaveG; Dreakmur; Epsilon; Hawkey Town 18; Hockey Outsider; McNuts; seventieslord; tarheelhockey;
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,202
7,360
Regina, SK
I don't want to get into a long conversation about this, but the only argument for Murphy.having a better series than Lidstrom is looking at box scores 15 years later and seeing that Murphy put up a few more points. Murphy (and others) provided great support, but Lidstrom was key to shutting down Lidstrom.

he was so good, only he could beat himself.

I swear you've done this once before, haha.
 

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