Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

I was reading some of those comments last night and it seems like he's changing the reason why he gave them that grade, a little revisionist history.

Yeah, the common criticism of the Horvat trade at the time was the the Isles gave up too many assets and too big a contract for Horvat. At this point that seems incorrect, so move the goalposts.

 

[PK Cronin]

Every time people bring up picks, this clip pops into my mind for the return

The theoretical version of this team that people who want a complete teardown see is always a dream scenario, they forget it could just as easily be a nightmare.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

That should've said "aren't made" and I fixed it.

The PK was abysmal, no doubt, and it cost the team points in the standings and some games in the playoffs. What's been a constant over the years is that this team can't have a good power play and a great PK at the same time. It's one or the other, and sometimes neither.

Depth has gotten worse as Martin and Cizikas has aged. They need to be replaced with younger and hungrier players, similar to the players they were years ago.

Reilly was great once he was brought in but the defense struggles with the same thing the offense does, too many players that fit the same role/mold. Pelech, Pulock, and Romanov are all defense first guys who don't bring a lot of offense. If Reilly can be brought back cheap he'd be worth it, but one of Pelech/Pulock need to go and/or Aho needs to be replaced with a functional bottom pairing defenseman. Aho can't be on this team anymore, he cannot play in the playoffs and is a giant liability when the physical play elevates.

Martin and clutterbuck are gone, Maclean will be new 4th center or maybe winger if Cizikas stays in that role. There are some or actually a lot of UFA wings who would possibly fit on 4th line. I don’t know if Reilly is back, he might have priced himself out of here plus isles have Bolduc, Warren is older prospect and could be close so iskes perhaps will try and go that route to save cap.

 

[doublechili]

Pelech, Pulock, and Romanov are all defense first guys who don't bring a lot of offense. If Reilly can be brought back cheap he'd be worth it, but one of Pelech/Pulock need to go and/or Aho needs to be replaced with a functional bottom pairing defenseman. Aho can't be on this team anymore, he cannot play in the playoffs and is a giant liability when the physical play elevates.

I agree. These seem like no-brainer moves. Let Aho walk. Try to trade one of Pelech/Pulock and (probably in a separate deal) replace in the top 4 with a dynamic PMD.

I'm on board with the idea of trading both Nelson and JGP. Nelson because he'll bring back some assets and waiting any longer would probably be a mistake. JGP because he lost his offense after his injury a couple of years ago, and he makes too many outright dumb plays to be a prototypical defensive 3C. If they got a 3rd round pick for him I'd be happy at this point. Obviously let Martin and Clutterbuck walk.

 

[doublechili]

Everyone is discussing player moves. Is everyone just assuming that Lou will be back? Not that it matters what we think. Only one guy counts, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.

 

[Zeeker]

Aho can't be on this team anymore, he cannot play in the playoffs and is a giant liability when the physical play elevates.

It’s crazy that Aho has been in and out of the Islanders lineup since 2017 (yes, you read that right).

 

[BMOK33]

Everyone is discussing player moves. Is everyone just assuming that Lou will be back? Not that it matters what we think. Only one guy counts, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.

I think he is back for one more year then Roy is going into that role. I would not necessarily be blown away if we hear in next week its happening now but it would be unexpected

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Everyone is discussing player moves. Is everyone just assuming that Lou will be back? Not that it matters what we think. Only one guy counts, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.

I think so. Did you see him in that pregame video walking into the arena? He looks great. Looks like he's in his late 60's, not 82. Also has a little bit of a pimp limp going on. Wonder if that's embellished to play up the gangster image. lol

I think he is back for one more year then Roy his son is going into that role. I would not necessarily be blown away if we hear in next week its happening now but it would be unexpected

Fixed.

 

[The Real JT]

I agree. These seem like no-brainer moves. Let Aho walk. Try to trade one of Pelech/Pulock and (probably in a separate deal) replace in the top 4 with a dynamic PMD.

I'm on board with the idea of trading both Nelson and JGP. Nelson because he'll bring back some assets and waiting any longer would probably be a mistake. JGP because he lost his offense after his injury a couple of years ago, and he makes too many outright dumb plays to be a prototypical defensive 3C. If they got a 3rd round pick for him I'd be happy at this point. Obviously let Martin and Clutterbuck walk.

Trading players a little early is generally a prudent move for a team that is not on the cusp of a Cup. Wait too long and you risk injury or ineffectiveness driving the price down. It’s like the Aesop’s fable of the dog with the bone.

The following might sound like heresy to some based on his late season resurgence, but in my mind the time to move Palmieri is also in the off-season. That assumes, of course, that you can get a decent price for him. Frankly, if we are trading Nelson then we are not likely to be a contender so I say jettison the older guys that won’t be part of the core going forward.

Let’s not forget Palmieri was a -16 (team worst by far) if that means anything to you. His value will never be higher.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I agree. These seem like no-brainer moves. Let Aho walk. Try to trade one of Pelech/Pulock and (probably in a separate deal) replace in the top 4 with a dynamic PMD.

I'm on board with the idea of trading both Nelson and JGP. Nelson because he'll bring back some assets and waiting any longer would probably be a mistake. JGP because he lost his offense after his injury a couple of years ago, and he makes too many outright dumb plays to be a prototypical defensive 3C. If they got a 3rd round pick for him I'd be happy at this point. Obviously let Martin and Clutterbuck walk.

Nelson's goals will be tough to replace.

Will be an interesting offseason. Gotta think that Houda and Maclean will be out and Roy will bring in more of his own assistants.

 

[PK Cronin]

Everyone is discussing player moves. Is everyone just assuming that Lou will be back? Not that it matters what we think. Only one guy counts, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't post here.

I expect him to be back, but it's also not relevant who the GM is when discussing the moves I'd like to see made. Whether it's Lamoriello, Snow, or Periferal, those are the moves I want.

It’s crazy that Aho has been in and out of the Islanders lineup since 2017 (yes, you read that right).

It is indeed. At one time he showed something but he couldn't get over the hump and now he's just not worth keeping around. It's a shame but it happens. Maybe he goes somewhere else and has some success with a different cast but he's not working out with this roster.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Frankly, if we are trading Nelson then we are not likely to be a contender so I say jettison the older guys that won’t be part of the core going forward.

For how long? While a lot of our core can be considered young, they are not 19 years old. Gotta maximize Horvat, Barzal etc when they are in their prime.

I'm all for trading some vets for assets/cap room but all moves have to be made with an eye on still remaining competitive. Next season. So that may mean flipping some of those assets for (or acquiring) players that can contribute immediately.

 

[doublechili]

it's also not relevant who the GM is when discussing the moves I'd like to see made. Whether it's Lamoriello, Snow, or Periferal, those are the moves I want.

Understood and agreed. However, I'm assuming we can agree that if you want anything more than tinkering the odds of seeing it happen are more likely if Lou is out?

 

[MJF]

It’s crazy that Aho has been in and out of the Islanders lineup since 2017 (yes, you read that right).

Aho’s a tweener. If this were baseball he’d be a AAAA player.

 

[The Real JT]

Trading Palmieri along with Nelson and perhaps JGP or Cizikas potentially makes us less of a contender for a year or two. But maybe not. That’s far from a definite thing. Those moves free up cap space for a trade or UFA signing that might outperform expectations. Obviously we need younger players with more skill and speed.

I say trade some of the non-core vets that have value. Ride out Lee’s deal and don’t trade assets to dump less desirable contracts.

 

[Zeeker]

Aho’s a tweener. If this were baseball he’d be a AAAA player.

We don’t need to use baseball equivalents. Let’s try to make “BHL player” a thing.

 

[benedictTavares]

Someone needs to kidnap Lou before he trades our #18 overall pick for some teams 2nd pairing D specialist.

 

[PK Cronin]

Understood and agreed. However, I'm assuming we can agree that if you want anything more than tinkering the odds of seeing it happen are more likely if Lou is out?

That's the general consensus, I'm not sure I agree with that though. He's been around the game a long time and I'd be surprised if he didn't see the same things we're seeing. While there are varying opinions about what things should be called or when they should've started, most of us on here are seeing similar things, how could Lamoriello not see the same? While he doesn't have a great track record of moving and shaking things up he's also made some pretty shrewd moves before, especially when it comes to dumping of contracts he doesn't want anymore. If he just tinkers and brings the same team back he'll have to go.

If a new GM was brought in from outside the organization I'd assume there would be some pretty decent changes right off the bat. GMs want their guys and people who fit the style of play they think will be successful.

 

[MJF]

If he just tinkers and brings the same team back he'll have to go.

If this happens Lou will have set the team back gong into another season. Then when would he go? I don’t think ownership can take that chance.

FWIW, I don’t think Lou truly sees the game through the prism of 2024. I still think he prefers a team “that plays like men” rather than getting younger, faster, more skilled. I don’t trust his judgement anymore.

 

[PK Cronin]

If this happens Lou will have set the team back gong into another season. Then when would he go? I don’t think ownership can take that chance.

FWIW, I don’t think Lou truly sees the game through the prism of 2024. I still think he prefers a team “that plays like men” rather than getting younger, faster, more skilled. I don’t trust his judgement anymore.

I think the right approach is right in the middle and I hope he realizes that. There are very few cup winners who are just one or the other in recent years.


As for when he'd go, it depends completely on the objective of ownership. If they're content to just make the playoffs for the next few seasons until the retail village and hotel are done and then are looking to cash out they might just let things ride with Lamoriello until they're done or they fall so far down the standings they're forced to do something. If they care about winning they'd need to make that decision sooner rather than later. While our owners have a lot of money I wouldn't be surprised if they were just in it for the short term cash grab that building this franchise up will provide them.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Some difficult decisions will have to be made involving long time fan favorites but this would be my ideal situation heading into next season.

Say goodbye to Clutterbuck, Martin, Wahlstrom and Aho
Try to trade Pelech

(UFA or trade for legit top line winger) - Horvat - Barzy
Holmstrom - Nelson - Palmieri
Lee - Pageau - Engvall
Cizikas - Maclean - Fasching/Iskhakov

Romanov - Dobson
(UFA/trade Upgrade on Pelech) - Pulock
Reilly - Mayfield

 

[PK Cronin]

For those interested, here's a list of the youngest UFAs hitting the market:

Here are the top point producers hitting the market:

 

[MJF]

While our owners have a lot of money I wouldn't be surprised if they were just in it for the short term cash grab that building this franchise up will provide them.

I would be surprised.

The Islanders are part of the largest development in Nassau County since the expansion of Roosevelt Field. If Scott Malkin takes a laisez-faire attitude towards the Islanders while trying to build up mall and hotel traffic he’d be sabotaging his investment by chasing potential customers away.

Malkin really needs to be “all in” on everything going on around the Belmont property. He can’t half ass this. Something fans of our generations had become accustomed to from previous Isles owners.

 

[PK Cronin]

I would be surprised.

The Islanders are part of the largest development in Nassau County since the expansion of Roosevelt Field. If Scott Malkin takes a laisez-faire attitude towards the Islanders while trying to build up mall and hotel traffic he’d be sabotaging his investment by chasing potential customers away. Malkin really needs to be “all in” on everything going on around the Belmont property. He can’t half ass this.

When is he looking to cash out? If we're talking three years then just making the playoffs would be good enough. If we're talking ten it's probably more prudent that the Islanders do well to help support everything else.

 

[iggy]

Trade Lee and Pageau anyway you can. Add picks if you have to.
$12,000,000 of cap space going out.
Sign Duclair $3,200,00
Sign Guenzel $8,500,000.
$11,700,000 of cap space in.

Duclair-Horvat-Barzal
Guenzel-Nelson-Palmieri
Engvall-Casey-Iskhakov
Gauthier-MacLean-Holmstrom

Dobson-Romanov
Pulock-Pelech
Mayfield -Reilly
Bolduc.