Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[seafoam]

What I want to see going forward is a higher priority on investing in quality, top-of-the-lineup players.

The bottom pairing and fourth line (at the very least) should be reserved for cost-controlled players. Whether those players come from internal promotions, external reclamation projects, or veterans fit for more limited roles doesn’t matter.

This organization had 10.75M per of cap tied up in Pageau, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, and Martin this year and they have as many points (2!!!) in these playoffs that MacLean and Reilly have while making 1.8M per.

 

[Glorydays22]

The discussion of the roster construction going forward is going to be a long frustrating conversation on the board all offseason with most likely no big changes. Until we cut off the head of this horrible creation, nothing else will happen. And as we all know, the owner's aren't too bright and will rely on Lou somehow to fix it unfortunately. All they are worried about is raising the ticket prices and having fans paying $50 for parking and having to be bused to the arena! LOL what a joke.

 

[Throttle]

I mean, they did build a $1B arena complex in NY something no one has done in 40 years. Time to pay for it as the consumer.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I mean, they did build a $1B arena complex in NY something no one has done in 40 years. Time to pay for it as the consumer.

I do not believe I have ever read a post of yours that added anything meaningful to a conversation before.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

What I don’t want to see anymore of is Cizikas on the first line and Fasching on the second line. These are two guys with no hands in offensive roles. Roy has to change that.

And I can separate the fact that I think they are setup for failure in those roles but I appreciate what they are doing in said roles, despite lack of offensive ability.

 

[Throttle]

I do not believe I have ever read a post of yours that added anything meaningful to a conversation before.

Sorry to hear that. I’m disappointed. I’ll try harder to please you.

Owner raises tickets prices to pay for new arena, yup, not meaningful in any way.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The discussion of the roster construction going forward is going to be a long frustrating conversation on the board all offseason with most likely no big changes. Until we cut off the head of this horrible creation, nothing else will happen. And as we all know, the owner's aren't too bright and will rely on Lou somehow to fix it unfortunately. All they are worried about is raising the ticket prices and having fans paying $50 for parking and having to be bused to the arena! LOL what a joke.

Christ you people will bitch and moan about everything.

Best owners we've ever had, best GM since Torrey, most competitive team since the dynasty, a new arena, and the complaint is about parking. FML.

Owners aren't too bright? That's rich. lol

 

[Glorydays22]

Christ you people will bitch and moan about everything.

Best owners we've ever had, best GM since Torrey, most competitive team since the dynasty, a new arena, and the complaint is about parking. FML.

Owners aren't too bright? That's rich. lol

Yes they are doing a great job right now. Maybe they can keep Lou on for another 10 years. Rich is how everyone bounces around complaining about team and now praising ownership. Don't you think they go hand and hand?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Make it make sense.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Christ you people will bitch and moan about everything.

Best owners we've ever had, best GM since Torrey, most competitive team since the dynasty, a new arena, and the complaint is about parking. FML.

Owners aren't too bright? That's rich. lol

One thing I will say on Lou. I am extremely disappointed that he decided to bring everyone back on long term deals again this past offseason. He cannot do this again. In fact this core needs to begin getting split up. IN no way am I saying rebuild but trades need to be made.

 

[duster19]

What I want to see going forward is a higher priority on investing in quality, top-of-the-lineup players.

The bottom pairing and fourth line (at the very least) should be reserved for cost-controlled players. Whether those players come from internal promotions, external reclamation projects, or veterans fit for more limited roles doesn’t matter.

This organization had 10.75M per of cap tied up in Pageau, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, and Martin this year and they have as many points (2!!!) in these playoffs that MacLean and Reilly have while making 1.8M per.

Pretty apparent Roy is going to need a different roster construction compared to Trotz. Our D are all guys who were good in a Trotz system. Block shots. Fire pucks up the boards/ice. Big/Heavy. I think Roy is going to want guys who are more mobile with the ability to transition. Which will take some work from the GM. I do agree that to end talent is an issue. The top line needs another addition. Isles are in a weird place. They need to change but don’t have a lot of cap space and they have a lot of bad long term contracts that are going to need to be moved, in order to change. Hot take that no one will like - maybe a sorokin can land some talent/shed some cap.

 

[Big L]

Christ you people will bitch and moan about everything.

Best owners we've ever had, best GM since Torrey, most competitive team since the dynasty, a new arena, and the complaint is about parking. FML.

Owners aren't too bright? That's rich. lol

You forgot best goalie situation as well.

All goalies go through rough patches. But hot damn we’d better get rid of ours and right quick!

You people.

 

[periferal]

Ohhhh man, now we're getting a bit apocolyptic here.

I mean, the threat of rinse & repeat (my new fave phrase regarding Lou's summer activities) is certainly there. No doubt!

But I won't believe all the people in charge will simply let a lightly tweaked version of this year's team return as is next fall.

Alone having brought in Roy when they did tells me that they knew he may very realistically only be getting a view of what he can work with and will now have a good bit of input on what needs to be done line-upwise.

That all means - I don't think Lou gets to stay unless he's asked to change things. And if he is replaced, it will be for the prime purpose of changing things.

And I'd happily supply the organization with a to-do list of things requiring change and how that could ideally get done, should they need any suggestions.

I believe a few years ago I told you I'd take you as GM...And I wasn't kidding. Of course I believe garth snow was the GM at the time so not sure how much of a compliment you would view it as.

Also FWIW Ledecky has been on record multiple times saying, "If you don't trust your GM then you don't have a GM." Is that just talk and he and Malkin would interfere? And what do they know about hockey to even interfere? Rarely does any sports franchise go in a good direction when ownership gets involved in player acquisition.

And it's very easy to sit here and say that "ownership won't stand for this," and/or "change is coming." However with the corner Lou has backed this roster in in terms of lack of cap space and farm system, I am very skeptical that any GM can turn this core into a Cup contender in the short term.

Let's be honest...The best hockey is behind Palmieri, Pageau, Lee, Pelech, Pulock, and probably Nelson. That's very bad when those are the guys who should be making up your top forwards and defense pairs. Other than Nelson it will be hard to trade any of those players and get anything of value...At a time when the Isles are despreate to get younger, faster, and more skilled.

I don't see how that happens other than in the draft as what (young) top players could be had from other teams this offseason, and how can the Isles outbid a handful of teams to get those players.

And make no mistake...The Isles aren't 1 player away from Cup contention (I'll consider being open minded if they can land McDavid or Makar). There's a lot to fix here and I don't see how it's a short term fix. It's going to take a while for any GM, but I just pray the current one doesn't make things worse.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

One thing I will say on Lou. I am extremely disappointed that he decided to bring everyone back on long term deals again this past offseason. He cannot do this again. In fact this core needs to begin getting split up. IN no way am I saying rebuild but trades need to be made.

Fair. Actually even calling for a rebuild is fair. I obviously disagree with that but t's a legit stance. But calling the owners stupid is, well... stupid.

Yes they are doing a great job right now. Maybe they can keep Lou on for another 10 years. Rich is how everyone bounces around complaining about team and now praising ownership. Don't you think they go hand and hand?

I don't know what this means.

 

[Glorydays22]

Fair. Actually even calling for a rebuild is fair. I obviously disagree with that but t's a legit stance. But calling the owners stupid is, well... stupid.


I don't know what this means.

It's not stupid that you let Lou to continue making f***ing dumb moves resigning Mayfield and Engvall to a 7 yr deals and hamstringing us with our salary cap? Not moving on from Martin and Clutterbuck 2 years ago instead resigning.....the continuedly moves of ignoring our farm system that we have NO one to bring up or who will be ready in what the next 3 years? Every GM and team has to adopt and Lou and mgmt. has shown they have no ideal how to do that. Well, to me that's stupid.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Christ you people will bitch and moan about everything.

Best owners we've ever had, best GM since Torrey, most competitive team since the dynasty, a new arena, and the complaint is about parking. FML.

Owners aren't too bright? That's rich. lol

We have one of the dumbest fanbases in sports.

 

[Chockey22]

What I don’t want to see anymore of is Cizikas on the first line and Fasching on the second line. These are two guys with no hands in offensive roles. Roy has to change that.

This just speaks to the lack of talent on this team - that Roy is forced to play these guys in a top 6 role. Both are fourth liners.

 

[PK Cronin]

I believe a few years ago I told you I'd take you as GM...And I wasn't kidding. Of course I believe garth snow was the GM at the time so not sure how much of a compliment you would view it as.

Also FWIW Ledecky has been on record multiple times saying, "If you don't trust your GM then you don't have a GM." Is that just talk and he and Malkin would interfere? And what do they know about hockey to even interfere? Rarely does any sports franchise go in a good direction when ownership gets involved in player acquisition.

And it's very easy to sit here and say that "ownership won't stand for this," and/or "change is coming." However with the corner Lou has backed this roster in in terms of lack of cap space and farm system, I am very skeptical that any GM can turn this core into a Cup contender in the short term.

Let's be honest...The best hockey is behind Palmieri, Pageau, Lee, Pelech, Pulock, and probably Nelson. That's very bad when those are the guys who should be making up your top forwards and defense pairs. Other than Nelson it will be hard to trade any of those players and get anything of value...At a time when the Isles are despreate to get younger, faster, and more skilled.

I don't see how that happens other than in the draft as what (young) top players could be had from other teams this offseason, and how can the Isles outbid a handful of teams to get those players.

And make no mistake...The Isles aren't 1 player away from Cup contention (I'll consider being open minded if they can land McDavid or Makar). There's a lot to fix here and I don't see how it's a short term fix. It's going to take a while for any GM, but I just pray the current one doesn't make things worse.

Palmieri and Nelson are both 30 goal scorers on good contracts for one more year. What contending team isn't taking them in a deal? They could both return something significant. Lee and Pageau have two seasons left, but could be dealt in their final year without much trouble I'd guess. Just retain on the salary and acquire some mid round draft picks.

I don't know about Pelech and Pulock. They seem more like the type that would need to be swapped in a change of scenery scenario because there can't be any salary retention with them since their deals are too long.

Whether or not Lamoriello will move these players is the question.

 

[Chockey22]

Christ you people will bitch and moan about everything.

Best owners we've ever had, best GM since Torrey, most competitive team since the dynasty, a new arena, and the complaint is about parking. FML.

Owners aren't too bright? That's rich. lol

Best GM since Torrey is such a low bar; while it's true, it's almost too embarrassing to use it in an argument. I think Lou is a middle of the pack GM, and it's probably time to move on from him.

 

[periferal]

Palmieri and Nelson are both 30 goal scorers on good contracts for one more year. What contending team isn't taking them in a deal? They could both return something significant. Lee and Pageau have two seasons left, but could be dealt in their final year without much trouble I'd guess. Just retain on the salary and acquire some mid round draft picks.

I don't know about Pelech and Pulock. They seem more like the type that would need to be swapped in a change of scenery scenario because there can't be any salary retention with them since their deals are too long.

Whether or not Lamoriello will move these players is the question.

I grouped a bunch of those players together more making a point that their best hockey is behind them, but absolutely Nelson (and Palmieri) could be traded for something valuable and should be.

But again as you pointed out...The question is if Lou would ever do that and based on his his 40+ year GMing' resume, little chance he does. I mean once you trade Nelson you're essentially rebuilding because he's one of the best #2 centers in the league and literally again (because of Lou) there's no one in the farm system to replace him.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I don't know what this means.

 

[doublechili]

The idea that the owners don't see what Vinnie from Massapequa sees is pretty funny.

The skilled teams are leading every series (BOS/TOR is maybe a question although BOS does have guys like Pastrnak, Marchand, McAvoy, etc. and TOR is without Nylander so that's probably a wash).

I could be wrong, but I'll be very surprised if it's business as usual this summer.

 

[seafoam]

Barzal’s M-NTC and Sorokin’s NMC kick in this summer. Dobson doesn’t have trade protection and will still be an RFA when he current deal expires.

Barzal and Dobson have combined for one point thus far in the series and Sorokin didn’t even make it through one game.

It pains me to type this, but the best way to re-tool this team is going to be to package these guys with players like Engvall, Pageau, Palmieri, and Nelson.

Lee, Mayfield, Pelech, and Pulock all have full NTC.

 

[Glorydays22]

Best GM since Torrey is such a low bar; while it's true, it's almost too embarrassing to use it in an argument. I think Lou is a middle of the pack GM, and it's probably time to move on from him.

Thank you!

 

[YearlyLottery]

@periferal you asked in the GDT what I would do. Here it is:

1.) trade Pageau for anything. After being a part of a pretty solid line in the postseason I do not believe he is seen as a wasteful contract around the league. It will be a major mistake to hold onto him.

2.) Clutterbuck, Martin, Bortuzzo can all walk. I would be fine if Clutterbuck came back on a league minimum deal to be a part of the fourth line.

3.) Once Toronto gets eliminated trade Ryan Pulock, Matthew Maggio, and a 2024 1st for Nylander. Be willing to add more if needed.

4.) Resign Oliver Wahlstrom (1 year $1 per) Mike Rielly (2 years $2 per), Kyle Maclean (2 years $1 per), and Ruslan Ishakov (1 year $1 per).

5.) Go get a smooth skating defenseman such as Erik Gustafsson on as cheap of a deal as possible. This was a major mistake not keeping him and the team has not replaced the offensive skating ability of Leddy and Toews.

This roster would be right around $87.75 million which should be below the cap next season. Here is your lineup:

Barzal-Horvat-Nylander
Lee-Nelson-Palmieri
Ishakov-Cizikas-Engvall
Gauthier-Maclean-Fasching
Wahlstrom

Romanov-Dobson
Pelech-Mayfield
Rielly-Bolduc/Gustafsson

Sorokin
Varlamov

6.) At the trade deadline you add on to the defensive side of the puck preferably with someone to be on the second pairing. Be willing to pivot from one of Palmieri or Nelson if it does not seem they are staying/their game dips. You can always use the assets to add elsewhere in the lineup. At least one of these guys will have to walk to make room for the Romanov/Dobson contracts in the offseason.

7.) If anyone expects a plan for the following offseason that is looking too far into the future. How will Ishakov look? Wahlstrom? Will Bolduc actually get to play? Will Engvall play under Roy like this a full year? Do we have a new fourth line? Did Pelech stay healthy? What about Mayfield? Things should be fluid for the following offseason.

This roster does not include more than two trades. Getting rid of Pageau for anything and then making a trade for Nylander. Does this win a Cup? Honestly I do not know. I do think this roster is building towards having an offense that is more in tune with the current NHL though. I also believe that the defense does need more speed. Pelech and Mayfield worry me as that would be the main hole I see in this roster. Go ahead and kill the post but let's discuss the actual moves and not "LOU WOULD NEVER DO THIS."