Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some
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Rongomania
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Posted this in the "Around the NHL" initially as a reply to Edge, that was supposed to be short and sweet but became a huge roster-building novel, so I'm moving it here. This is my opinion on the current state of affairs in general =)
It was a reply to this post:
This is how I currently feel as well, though I do feel there's a definite need to address center depth which isn't easily achieved. The rest, the bottom 6, I think will be a fairly easy task. Of course there's a big difference between an adequate or even good bottom 6 and a great bottom 6, where I think a lot of playoff success does rely heavily on the latter. I still think we can achieve that without too much difficulty. It helps if we acquire a good center via trade or drafting, ideally (as opposed to UFA overpay) and manage to keep Strome at a fair price which may not be possible if keeps up current stats since arbitration will see him command a much higher price tag than we should be paying for one season of (again, assuming this continues) greatness that I have trouble believing would be a consistent thing. If we do manage to acquire a good center who's ready soon and *fingers crossed* Kravstov manages to fit into the NHL style of play and shows us some of the potential we know he has, then we're immediately a much deeper team running something like:
(This is because even though I see Chytil really starting to turn it on, I'm still not sold on him being the type of center we need behind Zib, especially if Zib goes down with injury. Chytil works as a #2C in a roster where we're all healthy since Panarin is such a good playmaker that he's basically a center in that regard.)
Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Buchnevich, Chytil, New Center as top 6
Lemieux, Fast, Strome, Kravstov as guys who can do both top 6 and bottom 6 depending on situation/injuries
Howden, maybe Andersson, and/or a good PK'er with energy + vet addition for the bottom.
Those additions and young guys either continuing the good progress we've seen, or becoming what we think and hope they can... that looks like a contender to me. It does rely on quite a few things happening but I believe most will and we can be that team within 2 years.
Especially as our defense continues to get better, though I already like what I see from players individually (and so young to be doing it!) and we hopefully implement a new system or at the very least tweak the one we have. And we have a few more guys yet to come.
I think a Georgiev/Shesterkin tandem will be very good, particularly in front of a solid defensive corps.
We know Zibby, Panarin and Chytil can really shoot. So can Buch but it's not something to rely on. Early on we were all hoping Kakko and Kravstov would both come in and light that lamp frequently, which can still happen but also isn't something to rely on atm. It's nice to know that our D can score and most of them chip in that way but I know what you're saying with regards to firepower, or at least I think I do. We have Zibby and Bread as our only real top guys and Zibby is just now coming into his own from last season. It'd be great to add another top guy and I'd like that guy to be a center. And then we have Chytil, Kakko and maybe Kravstov who have the potential to be top guys. It's a weird situation to be in for us right now as a rebuilding team that's already quickly showing promise but just needs a few tweaks and some progress from guys who we thought would be more of an impact already. Prior to this off-season and debut I was ready for the long haul, but then we went out and made some splashes, got to draft 2nd OA, and see that maybe we're not as far off as we believed after unloading pretty much everyone two years in a row. If Kakko had come in like some other rookies have around the league lately (and I'm fine with the fact that he hasn't yet) and Kravstov had come in similarly like we expected and many analysts expected, along with Andersson and Chytil both showing strong progress? We'd already be pretty damn close to contending. So for me, at least, it was a rollercoaster of "strap in and let's do this rebuild!" to "Oh shit, we're potentially almost already there!" to "Well, we're more advanced than I thought but we need a bit more and some things are disappointing here..."
I'm still enjoying all of it though. Maybe not the Tampa blowout, but it's to be expected in some ways and I love some of the bounce back and resilience I've seen. Playoffs or not (and honestly I'd prefer not even if it's good experience for young guys which is a controversial viewpoint I won't get into here) I like watching this team, I like a lot off the guys and I'm checking out way more games than I have over the past 2 seasons. This team is easy to like I find, with and without bias. So there's my wall of text analysis and feeling =)
TL;DR: A center addition and some guys progressing as we think/thought they would, and I like where we're at.
It was a reply to this post:
This is how I currently feel as well, though I do feel there's a definite need to address center depth which isn't easily achieved. The rest, the bottom 6, I think will be a fairly easy task. Of course there's a big difference between an adequate or even good bottom 6 and a great bottom 6, where I think a lot of playoff success does rely heavily on the latter. I still think we can achieve that without too much difficulty. It helps if we acquire a good center via trade or drafting, ideally (as opposed to UFA overpay) and manage to keep Strome at a fair price which may not be possible if keeps up current stats since arbitration will see him command a much higher price tag than we should be paying for one season of (again, assuming this continues) greatness that I have trouble believing would be a consistent thing. If we do manage to acquire a good center who's ready soon and *fingers crossed* Kravstov manages to fit into the NHL style of play and shows us some of the potential we know he has, then we're immediately a much deeper team running something like:
(This is because even though I see Chytil really starting to turn it on, I'm still not sold on him being the type of center we need behind Zib, especially if Zib goes down with injury. Chytil works as a #2C in a roster where we're all healthy since Panarin is such a good playmaker that he's basically a center in that regard.)
Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Buchnevich, Chytil, New Center as top 6
Lemieux, Fast, Strome, Kravstov as guys who can do both top 6 and bottom 6 depending on situation/injuries
Howden, maybe Andersson, and/or a good PK'er with energy + vet addition for the bottom.
Those additions and young guys either continuing the good progress we've seen, or becoming what we think and hope they can... that looks like a contender to me. It does rely on quite a few things happening but I believe most will and we can be that team within 2 years.
Especially as our defense continues to get better, though I already like what I see from players individually (and so young to be doing it!) and we hopefully implement a new system or at the very least tweak the one we have. And we have a few more guys yet to come.
I think a Georgiev/Shesterkin tandem will be very good, particularly in front of a solid defensive corps.
We know Zibby, Panarin and Chytil can really shoot. So can Buch but it's not something to rely on. Early on we were all hoping Kakko and Kravstov would both come in and light that lamp frequently, which can still happen but also isn't something to rely on atm. It's nice to know that our D can score and most of them chip in that way but I know what you're saying with regards to firepower, or at least I think I do. We have Zibby and Bread as our only real top guys and Zibby is just now coming into his own from last season. It'd be great to add another top guy and I'd like that guy to be a center. And then we have Chytil, Kakko and maybe Kravstov who have the potential to be top guys. It's a weird situation to be in for us right now as a rebuilding team that's already quickly showing promise but just needs a few tweaks and some progress from guys who we thought would be more of an impact already. Prior to this off-season and debut I was ready for the long haul, but then we went out and made some splashes, got to draft 2nd OA, and see that maybe we're not as far off as we believed after unloading pretty much everyone two years in a row. If Kakko had come in like some other rookies have around the league lately (and I'm fine with the fact that he hasn't yet) and Kravstov had come in similarly like we expected and many analysts expected, along with Andersson and Chytil both showing strong progress? We'd already be pretty damn close to contending. So for me, at least, it was a rollercoaster of "strap in and let's do this rebuild!" to "Oh shit, we're potentially almost already there!" to "Well, we're more advanced than I thought but we need a bit more and some things are disappointing here..."
I'm still enjoying all of it though. Maybe not the Tampa blowout, but it's to be expected in some ways and I love some of the bounce back and resilience I've seen. Playoffs or not (and honestly I'd prefer not even if it's good experience for young guys which is a controversial viewpoint I won't get into here) I like watching this team, I like a lot off the guys and I'm checking out way more games than I have over the past 2 seasons. This team is easy to like I find, with and without bias. So there's my wall of text analysis and feeling =)
TL;DR: A center addition and some guys progressing as we think/thought they would, and I like where we're at.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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So given his RFA status do we think it's more likely NYR trade Strome at the deadline or in the off-season?
I think it really boils down to how much Strome is looking for on his next deal and how confident the Rangers are in Chytil, Howden, and Andersson. Strome's versatility is useful with players trying to break into the league.
He's having a lot of success here but I still wonder just how desirable he'll be as a trade piece. If the Rangers can get a Grabner package I think they'd be pretty happy with that.
- Oct 3, 2013
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Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Depends on the offers and what we see from Chytil and company moving forward.
I have it in my head that he’s more likely to be an off-season move. But that’s not based on any rumblings or anything. It’s just me speculating.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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Lemieux has been growing on me as a potential 3LW of the future.
Leaves a big open spot at 2lw after Kreider leaves though. I don't see top 6 for him.
Leaves a big open spot at 2lw after Kreider leaves though. I don't see top 6 for him.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I'm somewhat on the fence about him being a second line LW.
I see elements there, but I don't think I see quite enough --- particularly the hands.
I think he can be can be a very useful NHL player, but I also think he's the type of player we can really fall for and then "want" him to be more than he is.
However, if he was able to take the next step, and hit that 20 goal, 40+ level, then I think it potentially has a big impact on the roster. Especially for a team that is probably going to focus on players who trend toward more of a power game in an effort to find complimentary pieces for the finesse players in place.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
So, yeah, about @TheDirtyH's suggestion of an ADA for Tuch trade...
I think Quinn doesn't make the best use of the personnel he has.
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
On top of the fact that his "I like to play 3 out of 4 lines" is right out of the "I'm John Tortorella and this is how to make sure you lose a season" playbook.
I think that's true of most coaches but also based a lot on what we see vs. what they see, amid other factors, which we'll never ever be privy to. There's a LOT going on under the hood that we're unaware of.
I also think that no matter what coach we have right now, some of us will feel the way you do. It's a much trickier roster when there are so many rookies all at once. For all the gripes with Quinn, and I do have a few, it's definitely worth remembering that he's a 2nd year NHL coach coming up from the NCAA who has some less than optimal assistants, and a very odd roster to work with. All while having to focus on several key rookies at once which I know he likes to do in one on one situations.
Not a huge Quinn fanboi, nor a Quinn hater. Just trying to look at the situation logically.
https://nypost.com/2019/12/02/jeff-gortons-key-to-rangers-avoiding-an-expansion-draft-heist/
This is about the laziest article one could write about the expansion draft
This is about the laziest article one could write about the expansion draft
I don’t anticipate the Rangers having another deadline garage sale. Perhaps a hockey trade in the off season, perhaps at the 2021 deadline.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
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I think Kreider and Fast get dealt at the deadline for mediocre offers.
Gorton makes one big trade this summer to bring in a forward for a defenseman or defense prospects.
Some depth signings for some vets and reclamation projects to fill out the bottom six. Unless Skjei or DeAngelo get dealt (which is very possible), the defense will more or less be the same.
Fingers crossed Kravstov gets his head out of his ass and comes to camp ready to go to take a top 9 spot.
Think the Rangers kick the can on Strome for one more year unless they get an offer that blows Gorton's doors off. The Rangers simply don't have any top nine options in the system besides Kravstov. Trading Strome for anything short of an overpay is fool hardy.
I wouldn't be at all shocked if Lemieux and DeAngelo get one year deals again so Gorton can evaluate his options with all that cap space coming off the books in summer 2021. Summer 2021 is going to be VERY interesting with the expansion draft, all that cap space coming off the books, and with Buchnevich needing a new contract.
I don't think next year's roster looks all too much different than this year's. I don't see Miller, Lundkvist, Robertson, Henriksson, or Barron breaking camp next year. I think the first three arrive to the big club in 2021-22. The last two in 2022.
Gorton makes one big trade this summer to bring in a forward for a defenseman or defense prospects.
Some depth signings for some vets and reclamation projects to fill out the bottom six. Unless Skjei or DeAngelo get dealt (which is very possible), the defense will more or less be the same.
Fingers crossed Kravstov gets his head out of his ass and comes to camp ready to go to take a top 9 spot.
Think the Rangers kick the can on Strome for one more year unless they get an offer that blows Gorton's doors off. The Rangers simply don't have any top nine options in the system besides Kravstov. Trading Strome for anything short of an overpay is fool hardy.
I wouldn't be at all shocked if Lemieux and DeAngelo get one year deals again so Gorton can evaluate his options with all that cap space coming off the books in summer 2021. Summer 2021 is going to be VERY interesting with the expansion draft, all that cap space coming off the books, and with Buchnevich needing a new contract.
I don't think next year's roster looks all too much different than this year's. I don't see Miller, Lundkvist, Robertson, Henriksson, or Barron breaking camp next year. I think the first three arrive to the big club in 2021-22. The last two in 2022.
If we are still in the PO race, I can’t see Gorton torpedo-ing our PO chances by trading a RFA at the deadline.
Barnaby
Registered User
I think the Rangers will be 8 or so points out of a playoff spot come the deadline. I don’t think they’ll be “out of it” but I think they’ll be a team on the outside looking in and will trade Kreider while listening to offers on Fast and Strome. The latter two are candidates to resign while RFA and UFA respectfully if not dealt. I think the Rangers decided to move Kreider awhile ago. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Buch traded although I think that’s less likely... probably more likely during the offseason/draft.
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Barnaby
Registered User
In general, I think the team is better than I expected and he has a ton of youth to mold so I won’t get on him.
My biggest complaint is that I’d rather see a 50/50 timeshare with the goalies.
lol. That first period was my fault.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Shocked someone hasn't posted yet that Brooks is floating the idea of a trade where the foundation is Buchnevich for Josh Andersson
https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/lingering-flaw-is-rangers-unfortunate-reality/
https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/lingering-flaw-is-rangers-unfortunate-reality/
- Oct 3, 2013
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I don’t think Columbus is moving Anderson. They invested way too much to keep him away from Vegas to bail on him. Also don’t think Columbus is going to do the Rangers any favors.
I don't see this as a "playoff or bust" season....even if we're close, I think they operate as if we're not an maximize returns on Fast, Kreider, Strome (possibly ADA and Buch as well).
And I also have to say, Buch is in some ways more of a N-S player than many other players on our roster. He does finish some checks, he works hard along the boards and so forth. Don't know if he will keep improving in this area, but...
Yeah I agree, me neither.
Just think its a move that could be hard to defend, if we are somewhat in a running for a PO spot and then we deal a RFA -- i.e. a player that we don't even risk losing -- at the deadline for futures. So I think he would deal Kreider even if we are in a PO hunt. But lets say we are in the PO race up say 2-3 pts and then we deal Strome for futures at the deadline and lose 10 straight -- it wouldn't look good on Gorton...
However if we are 6-8 pts out of it, it could be a different story. There will be so many teams in the running, that it would take a miracle to gain 6-8 pts on not only 1-2 teams, but like 6-7 teams.
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