Roster Building thread - Part X - (TDL edition)

[Machinehead]

The Rangers are the more talented team with higher expectations.

The Knicks won 50 games, it's not that egregious of a gap.

 

[Do you want ants]

The Knicks won 50 games, it's not that egregious of a gap.

The difference is the Knicks lost games in an order deemed more acceptable…

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Knicks won 50 games, it's not that egregious of a gap.

50 games in the NBA is not that special. You have teams winning over 60 almost every year. That's happened only a handful of times in NHL history.

 

[Machinehead]

50 games in the NBA is not that special. You have teams winning over 60 almost every year. That's happened only a handful of times in NHL history.

Still, the Knicks are very much expected to win this series. Way more so than the Rangers.

After all, the NBA has a functioning seeding system.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Still, the Knicks are very much expected to win this series. Way more so than the Rangers.

After all, the NBA has a functioning seeding system.

Yes, but to their credit the Knicks are also decimated by injuries.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's less than 1 minute per game where Lindgren plays with the 4 other guys. One freaking minute. One shift where Gus ices the puck when he's tired and cant get off. One shift in the 2nd period where we are hemmed in. That's a BS stat to use to force your agenda. I just explained to you where those 8 minutes came from. We all know we aren't getting offense from Trouba and Lindgren together especially since most of that is them defending a lead.

Trouba and Lindgren only see shifts 5v5 when a PK ends. 6v5 isn’t calculated in there as it’s not ES.

You can flip it anyway you want but he’s gotten flayed away from Fox. It was that way in the regular season too and really has been that way every year in his career (just not as drastic as its been this year.) I'm not dumb enough to believe that he's a 12.5% xGF guy away from Fox long term as that number is just unsustainably bad. He's a good shift away from breaking into the 20's (still really bad, but not you're 88 degrees of f***ed level of bad.)

Plus you keep ignoring the bigger issue which is that he drags down Fox. I don’t think he would be getting the heat he gets if he were on a 3rd pair and used on the PK. He’s been really bad in his given role (want to say it’s not his fault? Fine, I agree) and it’s a clear spot to upgrade.

I've set the bar so low for this player where I think he's actually generally been okay in this series vs my expectations after he was a living disaster vs Washington (he sucked in g2 vs Carolina but he also saved that game, so it's a wash.)

Still not even anything close to what you'd want out of a top pair (or top 4) defender. Even if they get by Carolina (which I expect they will) the existence of him and/or Trouba on this defense will be what sinks them. I've long said it you can compensate for one of these guys, you can't for 2.

 

[Kendo]

If the Rangers had the heart of the Knicks this series would have been over in 4.

I get the premise, but the Knicks got absolutely smoked in game 4.

 

[hardnosed]

Trouba and Lindgren only see shifts 5v5 when a PK ends. 6v5 isn’t calculated in there as it’s not ES.

You can flip it anyway you want but he’s gotten flayed away from Fox. It was that way in the regular season too and really has been that way every year in his career (just not as drastic as its been this year.) I'm not dumb enough to believe that he's a 12.5% xGF guy away from Fox long term as that number is just unsustainably bad. He's a good shift away from breaking into the 20's (still really bad, but not you're 88 degrees of f***ed level of bad.)

Plus you keep ignoring the bigger issue which is that he drags down Fox. I don’t think he would be getting the heat he gets if he were on a 3rd pair and used on the PK. He’s been really bad in his given role (want to say it’s not his fault? Fine, I agree) and it’s a clear spot to upgrade.

I've set the bar so low for this player where I think he's actually generally been okay in this series vs my expectations after he was a living disaster vs Washington (he sucked in g2 vs Carolina but he also saved that game, so it's a wash.)

Still not even anything close to what you'd want out of a top pair (or top 4) defender. Even if they get by Carolina (which I expect they will) the existence of him and/or Trouba on this defense will be what sinks them. I've long said it you can compensate for one of these guys, you can't for 2.

Trouba and Lindgren play together after a 4 on 4 ends, at 5 on 5. If you study their usage you would know that. Done arguing with you about it. 17 minutes in 9 games. Just give me a freaking break. Outside of the Trouba shifts after a 4 on 4, none of those other minutes are planned. BS stat. Stop using 1 or 2 minutes a game to justify your take. It's exhausting

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Lets go, get this win tomorrow.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I get the premise, but the Knicks got absolutely smoked in game 4.

They did but I feel like that team with its talent an injuries are punching way above their weight.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Rangers haven't lost too many games in a row this season, so I'm optimistic they will win game 6 because they always seem to find a way to win this year

 

[Machinehead]

They did but I feel like that team with its talent an injuries are punching way above their weight.

The injuries are going to prevent them from having a legit chance to go all the way.

This version of the Knicks should still be beating the Pacers, and they were a heavy favorite going in when everybody already knew about the injuries.

People reacted less because basketball fans are less psychotic. That's the truth.

 

[Kendo]

Right?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The injuries are going to prevent them from having a legit chance to go all the way.

This version of the Knicks should still be beating the Pacers, and they were a heavy favorite going in when everybody already knew about the injuries.

People reacted less because basketball fans are less psychotic. That's the truth.

To be fair to hockey fans it's mostly me who is psychotic.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If theres one thing that comforts be about game 6 is that it is not possible for the Rangers to play worse than they did in game 5 and they really lost that game on the back of 2 unforced errors (the 3rd goal was totally forced, Trouba got pressured and he Trouba'd.)

Trouba and Lindgren play together after a 4 on 4 ends, at 5 on 5. If you study their usage you would know that. Done arguing with you about it. 17 minutes in 9 games. Just give me a freaking break. Outside of the Trouba shifts after a 4 on 4, none of those other minutes are planned. BS stat. Stop using 1 or 2 minutes a game to justify your take. It's exhausting

Can I use the minutes he plays with Fox? Because those are a bigger deal and have really been the crux of my anti Lindgren stance this year.

The other shit is bad too but as I've said, a lot of that is reallty a matter of circumstance. But its a thing, as insignificant as it may be (and if you look at the larger sample size over several years when he was a better player, not that insignificant.)

Plus I didn't even start the "Lindgren sucks away from Fox" thing, that was someone else.

Anyway, you can't be as bad as he is offensively/in transition and play in a top 4 in this league and expect to win anything. Especially when his defense has regressed into the range of "bad." For someone wants to claim that you can't expect him to create offense with Trouba (okay, fair) should I expect the team to not create offense with Fox? Because they don't really do that when Fox is out there with Lindgren, which is why, once again, I feel that the team needs to move on from him. He's fine in a bottom pair but he's going to make too much money to justify that and I very much doubt thats where he would play if he were kept.

 

[hardnosed]

If theres one thing that comforts be about game 6 is that it is not possible for the Rangers to play worse than they did in game 5 and they really lost that game on the back of 2 unforced errors (the 3rd goal was totally forced, Trouba got pressured and he Trouba'd.)



Can I use the minutes he plays with Fox? Because those are a bigger deal and have really been the crux of my anti Lindgren stance this year.

The other shit is bad too but as I've said, a lot of that is reallty a matter of circumstance. But its a thing, as insignificant as it may be (and if you look at the larger sample size over several years when he was a better player, not that insignificant.)

Plus I didn't even start the "Lindgren sucks away from Fox" thing, that was someone else.

Anyway, you can't be as bad as he is offensively/in transition and play in a top 4 in this league and expect to win anything. Especially when his defense has regressed into the range of "bad." For someone wants to claim that you can't expect him to create offense with Trouba (okay, fair) should I expect the team to not create offense with Fox? Because they don't really do that when Fox is out there with Lindgren, which is why, once again, I feel that the team needs to move on from him. He's fine in a bottom pair but he's going to make too much money to justify that and I very much doubt thats where he would play if he were kept.

This whole thing started because of 17 minutes of non Fox time over 9.games. That's my issue. If you want to fight about Fox needing another partner, let's just agree to disagree. Been fighting about that with you all season. Had enough.

 

[JohnC]

After years of watching Dan Girardi drag down Ryan McDonagh you’d be pretty f***ing dumb to want to make that same mistake with Lindgren and Fox.

Hopefully the (mostly) new regime sees it the same way.

 

[Fitzy]

After years of watching Dan Girardi drag down Ryan McDonagh you’d be pretty f***ing dumb to want to make that same mistake with Lindgren and Fox.

Hopefully the (mostly) new regime sees it the same way.

When did we as a board collectively somehow go from “Dan Girardi was a solid Tortorella ranger who aged poorly and didn’t work in AVs system” to

“Dan Girardi is terrible and Dan Girardi was always terrible”

 

[bernmeister]

Just got laid off. Need this W tomorrow! LGR

hang in there

I obviously don't know the context here but I was finally laid off late in 2021 after two years of budget anxiety. Kept me up all night every night.

Once it finally happened, it was the best thing I could have asked for. I'm making twice as much now.

I hope this ends up being a road to better things for you.

@Machinehead called it, bern brings the Kinks...

EDIT ADD:
bern needs a vay cay....

 

[NYR94]

Just an observation about roster construction on defense, but are the Rangers good enough in the #2 slot after Adam Fox to win a Cup? Vegas has Pietrangelo and Theodore, Colorado has Makar and Toews, Tampa had Hedman backed up by McDonagh (and the luxury of Sergachev on his own separate pair).

 

[jay from jersey]

Hunger and killer instinct really can’t be learned on the fly. I think a lot of it ( after lafs game tying goal in Carolina) was us being deflated. The other part is maybe this team was starting to believe their accolades and headlines a little too much.
I’m glad this isn’t a home game. That just adds added pressure to them.
Nothing in the playoffs is given. You have to work, fight, bleed, scratch and claw to get the results.
I do actually have a positive outlook for game 6. Team was embarrassed and all season long, except for that little slump they had, they respond with hard work. So I’m giving them the benefit of a doubt in this 1.
A key factor is going to be officiating.
Is this the type of game where they call 16 penalties or 6?? Cause that really messes with the mojo.
Our PK has performed great, I think the canes actually fear going on their PP a little bit now tbh. They don’t know what to expect.
PP has gone cold. A lot of it is fox. His injury has affected his mobility and elusiveness at the top. Zone entries have been poor and winning 1 on 1 battles have been 95% in their favor, even when we have an extra guy along the boards. That can’t happen.
They also need to put more rubber on this guy. He’s terrible moving laterally and shaky with rebound control.

Whatever happens I just want to see them play balls out. If that happens, I think we come out victorious.
If the shesty that started game 5 played game 4, this series is probably over already tbh

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

View attachment 871264

This is the real issue on the team, flipping the other 4 around is just rearranging deck chairs.

Frustrating as hell

Just an observation about roster construction on defense, but are the Rangers good enough in the #2 slot after Adam Fox to win a Cup? Vegas has Pietrangelo and Theodore, Colorado has Makar and Toews, Tampa had Hedman backed up by McDonagh (and the luxury of Sergachev on his own separate pair).

Idk Pittsburgh won 2 cups in a row with like no good dmen

 

[JimmyG89]

The injuries are going to prevent them from having a legit chance to go all the way.

This version of the Knicks should still be beating the Pacers, and they were a heavy favorite going in when everybody already knew about the injuries.

People reacted less because basketball fans are less psychotic. That's the truth.

OG got hurt in game 2 and even tho Mitch was hobbled, he played Game 1. I think it would have been a pickem if this was the lineup for the whole time.

I also think it depends on the team. Laker fans might be the most psychotic fans outside of the Cowboys. Hockey is the worst cause of the Canadian teams. It's all they got.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Frustrating as hell


Idk Pittsburgh won 2 cups in a row with like no good dmen

Letang was great and Dumoulin was very good until he got old.

Winning with out Letang in 2017 was just the most random thing ever. They got pumped by Washington and somehow won, almost lost to one of the worst conference finalists ever and then got Nashville with out Johanssen.

It’d be like if we won this current round, got Boston in the CF and then Vancouver with out Miller.

 

[bbny]

I wish I could feel about Artemi Panarin in the playoffs the way I do about Jalen Brunson.