Red Sox/MLB ROAD TRIP - Red Sox and Yankees heading to London in June 2019

[bp13]

If more people first did the latter, they'd think less in terms of "Insulating people from hurt feelings/snowflakism/pandering/virtue signaling"

Mike's post was a great one because of this line "I didn't use to care at all, but the older I get and the more I hear from other people with dramatically different life experiences,"

In essence, he was taught to see all sides.

I agree. Although it is obviously also true that there are countless examples of the majority responding to appease a loud, oversensitive minority of folks. I'd forgive anyone for thinking this was yet another case of that. But if it's clear it isn't, and it seems that is clear, this seems like the right move. And at the end of the day this is a street name, not something important, so why anyone would put up much of a fight surprises me.

 

[BiggioRainesHOF]

I agree. Although it is obviously also true that there are countless examples of the majority responding to appease a loud, oversensitive minority of folks. I'd forgive anyone for thinking this was yet another case of that. But if it's clear it isn't, and it seems that is clear, this seems like the right move. And at the end of the day this is a street name, not something important, so why anyone would put up much of a fight surprises me.

I tend to doubt there are countless examples actually. I find most to be fairly understandable with a bit of critical thinking applied.

Unless you're referring to people who get upset at the color of Starbucks cups.

 

[Fenway]

Looks like this might become moot anyway as Mayor Walsh is sending signals he will deny the request.

You can bet the Yawkey Foundation is working the phones right now

 

[bp13]

I tend to doubt there are countless examples actually. I find most to be fairly understandable with a bit of critical thinking applied.

Unless you're referring to people who get upset at the color of Starbucks cups.

At a town level I see it frequently where a small number of parents cause fundamental changes in town schools where the overwhelming majority disagree. At a youth sports level I see it all the time. It is much easier to just appease the whining then face the wrath of the "offended". I feel like giving in is being reinforced consistently.

Of course that said, critical thought does need to be applied. Not to get political but I'm not putting up a wall like the NRA might and saying that any change is a slippery slope. Reason and thought is 100% necessary. But I see plenty of situations where illogical and baseless decisions are made just to appease some overly vocal, small number of folks.

 

[BiggioRainesHOF]

At a town level I see it frequently where a small number of parents cause fundamental changes in town schools where the overwhelming majority disagree. At a youth sports level I see it all the time. It is much easier to just appease the whining then face the wrath of the "offended". I feel like giving in is being reinforced consistently.

Of course that said, critical thought does need to be applied. Not to get political but I'm not putting up a wall like the NRA might and saying that any change is a slippery slope. Reason and thought is 100% necessary. But I see plenty of situations where illogical and baseless decisions are made just to appease some overly vocal, small number of folks.

It's funny you mentioned towns. I grew up in a small town near Providence and live in a small town in the Metro West. And in terms of overwhelming majorities in towns... I'd say the Simpsons Monorail episode had them pegged perfectly.

 

[Fenway]

The two Yawkey executives who were racist were Joe Cronin and Mike Higgins and both of them were manager and GM during that era.

Higgins was the manager in 1959 when the team was under enormous pressure to promote either Earl Wilson or Pumpsie Green and he was 'relieved' of duty mid-season and the word was he didn't want to be the manager when the team integrated. A few months later he was the manager again.

In 1956 - Green and Wilson were shown in the Red Sox promotional film as prospects

 

[bp13]

It's funny you mentioned towns. I grew up in a small town near Providence and live in a small town in the Metro West. And in terms of overwhelming majorities in towns... I'd say the Simpsons Monorail episode had them pegged perfectly.

Alright agree to disagree on this stuff then.

 

[Fenway]

@EverettMike

Mike - John Henry back in 2002 at the Ted Williams memorial service said the premium seats behind home plate on the roof would be renamed the 406 Club....but a year later sold the rights to EMC. He also promised a plaque for Ted would be placed in the LF corner by the door.....never happened.

John Henry is the owner of the Red Sox but he is not a fan of the team. He flat out refuses to admit Sherm Feller into the Red Sox Hall of Fame and if Joe Mooney gets in then so should Sherm. As far as John Henry is concerned Red Sox history began in 2002.

Red Sox Hall of Fame

 

[KrejciMVP]

@EverettMike

Mike - John Henry back in 2002 at the Ted Williams memorial service said the premium seats behind home plate on the roof would be renamed the 406 Club....but a year later sold the rights to EMC. He also promised a plaque for Ted would be placed in the LF corner by the door.....never happened.

John Henry is the owner of the Red Sox but he is not a fan of the team. He flat out refuses to admit Sherm Feller into the Red Sox Hall of Fame and if Joe Mooney gets in then so should Sherm. As far as John Henry is concerned Red Sox history began in 2002.

Red Sox Hall of Fame

His ownership team was on record saying they don't care what fans think of them. There is a pattern of shady behavior from this guy.

His treatment of Fracona unmasked what kind of person he is to me. His refusal to combat abuse of woman at the Globe is another example of how horrible of a person he is. Opportunist IMO

 

[frickinbobby]

Looks like this might become moot anyway as Mayor Walsh is sending signals he will deny the request.

You can bet the Yawkey Foundation is working the phones right now

that's incredibly surprising. i don't know why he would take the risk. he does have widespread support in the city and could potentially take a moral stand possibly even against his own political benefit to say, "enough". but why would any politician want to do that? the momentum right now is too much.

 

[Fenway]

This was the bonehead move that defines the Yawkey era

George Digby and Willie Mays, the one who got away

George Digby, the legendary Red Sox scout who died Friday at the age of 96, signed a Hall of Famer in Wade Boggs and other Sox stars in Mike Greenwell and Jody Reed, but could have altered the course of Sox history if he had not been blocked by the team's racist ownership.

"I had Willie Mays bought for $4,500," Digby told me when I interviewed him in 2005. "I called up the Red Sox. I said, 'I got Willie Mays. He'll break the color line.'"

 

[Fenway]

that's incredibly surprising. i don't know why he would take the risk. he does have widespread support in the city and could potentially take a moral stand possibly even against his own political benefit to say, "enough". but why would any politician want to do that? the momentum right now is too much.

I sense the Mayor is fed up with John Henry for a lot of reasons that don't involve the Red Sox.

 

[frickinbobby]

I sense the Mayor is fed up with John Henry for a lot of reasons that don't involve the Red Sox.

so he'd take a political hit to spite a personal/political foe?

 

[Glove Malfunction]

The best interpretation of Tom Yawkey's history of race with the Red Sox is "unfortunate." The team was the last to integrate, they passed on numerous African America megastars, and he let well-known bigot Joe Cronin run the organization during integration, and Cronin's bigotry was a factor in how he evaluated players.

So even if we somehow knew Tom Yawkey personally wasn't racist, as the owner he failed the organization and it will forever be a stain on the Red Sox as a result. It doesn't matter if it was because of economics or animosity or whatever, the Sox ****ed up under his watch. It reflects poorly on the team and the city.

That's why for some fans seeing him honored by both the team and the city with a street named after him isn't about him, it's a constant reminder of an indefensible time period in this city's history. I don't break down in tears or get angry, but it bothers me and has for awhile now. I didn't use to care at all, but the older I get and the more I hear from other people with dramatically different life experiences, the more I understand why that name carries so much baggage, and why that street being named for him can feel so unwelcoming.

If anything changing the street name isn't just about taking away an honor from him, it's a way to let some people stop only thinking about this one issue when they think of him. "Yawkey" at Fenway comes with a very unfortunate, indefensible race policy that did real damage, to real people and to the team's standing. "Yawkey" at a hospital is about saving lives. I would bet more people think about him negatively when they see "Yawkey Way" than they would normally.

It's a small thing, but it will carry a lot of meaning for fans who feel like the Red Sox have never stopped ignoring an ugly time in the team's history.

Tom Yawkey and his memory isn't going anywhere any time soon. But it will be nice not to think about him when I walk into Fenway.

Mike, I thought you were way off base with the tweeter issue from a couple weeks ago, but think you're exactly right here. And I don't really care WHAT they change the name to. The important thing is that they are changing it at all.

 

[Fenway]

so he'd take a political hit to spite a personal/political foe?

Ironically the team that was second to last to integrate never took any fallout for it.

CORRECTION - The Yankees were 13th out of 16 to integrate.

 

[frickinbobby]

Ironically the team that was second to last to integrate never took any fallout for it.

first reaction: difficult, complicated case to make.
second reaction: ynkeessuck maybe not ynkeessuck

interesting.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

first reaction: difficult, complicated case to make.
second reaction: ynkeessuck maybe not ynkeessuck

interesting.

First reaction: uh what?
Second reaction: uh what?

 

[BiggioRainesHOF]

Ironically the team that was second to last to integrate never took any fallout for it.

Not sure where you're getting that info from, but my understanding was that both the Tigers and Phillies were after the Yankees.

Who was the last team to integrate? - Through The Fence Baseball
List of first black Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I know there's some who will think this is an insensitive question or whatever, but anyway..... If we're changing the name of a street, why don't they change the name of the MGH building?

 

[KrejciMVP]

I know there's some who will think this is an insensitive question or whatever, but anyway..... If we're changing the name of a street, why don't they change the name of the MGH building?

you could probably walk around Boston all day and find names of buildings and historical sites to change if you really wanted to, where does it stop?

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

you could probably walk around Boston all day and find names of buildings and historical sites to change if you really wanted to, where does it stop?

So is the answer to never change anything?

 

[EverettMike]

Who was the last team to integrate? - Through The Fence Baseball

Brooklyn Dodgers – Jackie Robinson (1947)
Cleveland Indians – Larry Doby (1947)
St. Louis Browns – Hank Thompson (1947)
New York Giants – Hank Thompson (1949)
Boston Braves – Sam Jethroe (1950)
Chicago White Sox – Minnie Minoso (1951)
Philadelphia Athletics – Bob Trice (1953)
Chicago Cubs – Ernie Banks (1953)
Pittsburgh Pirates – Curt Roberts (1954)
St. Louis Cardinals – Tom Alston (1954)
Cincinnati Reds – Nino Escalera (1954)
Washington Senators – Carlos Paula (1954)
New York Yankees – Elston Howard (1955)
Philadelphia Phillies – John Kennedy (1957)
Detroit Tigers – Ozzie Virgil (1958)
Boston Red Sox – Elijah Jerry “Pumpsie” Green (1959)

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

So is the answer to never change anything?

most would consider owning slaves worse than being a racist, yes?

So when are they gonna cover up the Washington Monument or the Jefferson Memorial in DC?

point being, it benefits no one to white wash all the bad things from history. History isn't comfortable, it isnt pretty, it isnt perfect. But that's why its so important. The second you white wash bad things from history, they begin to be forgotten. Once they're forgotten, they'll be repeated.

 

[Fenway]

Not sure where you're getting that info from, but my understanding was that both the Tigers and Phillies were after the Yankees.

Who was the last team to integrate? - Through The Fence Baseball
List of first black Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia

I stand corrected - John Kennedy Phillies 1957 - 5 AB's
Ozzie Virgil - Tigers 1958 - first Dominican player in MLB

List of first black Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

most would consider owning slaves worse than being a racist, yes?

So when are they gonna cover up the Washington Monument or the Jefferson Memorial in DC?

point being, it benefits no one to white wash all the bad things from history. History isn't comfortable, it isnt pretty, it isnt perfect. But that's why its so important. The second you white wash bad things from history, they begin to be forgotten. Once they're forgotten, they'll be repeated.

Changing the name of a street is not white washing history.

The lack of recognition of the fact that these men were flawed is an actual case of white washing. A very common one, at that