GDT: Rittich-ulousness: Calgary @ Colorado (8PM - Oh look we're finally on HNIC)

[InfinityIggy]

Ferland has been hot and cold in the past, so I am not ready to anoint him as a top 6 player yet. If he can score at a respectable clip on the top line (say .5ppg) for most of the season, then sure. I am not trying to diminish what he has done so far this year, but he is also shooting at 20%.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Even if he was shooting at 10% he'd be on pace for a 20 goal season and outscoring every forward not on the top line except Backlund.

How much longer do we wait before acknowledging he has top six talent?

 

[Mr Snrub]

Ferland is a huge part of the top line's production this year, particularly Johnny's. You can't get an assist if the other guy doesn't score.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Even if he was shooting at 10% he'd be on pace for a 20 goal season and outscoring every forward not on the top line except Backlund.

How much longer do we wait before acknowledging he has top six talent?

For me, its most of the season. Like if at the 60 game mark he is still producing then ill be convinced.

 

[Flameshomer]

For me, its most of the season. Like if at the 60 game mark he is still producing then ill be convinced.

Yeah but then you're discounting his play at the end of last season... Are we just saying that was a mirage? If you're going to use a sample size that large you might as well stretch it across multiple seasons.

 

[Anglesmith]

Yeah but then you're discounting his play at the end of last season... Are we just saying that was a mirage? If you're going to use a sample size that large you might as well stretch it across multiple seasons.

He kind of faded right at the end, then was a complete non-factor in the playoffs, which of course leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Yeah but then you're discounting his play at the end of last season... Are we just saying that was a mirage? If you're going to use a sample size that large you might as well stretch it across multiple seasons.

He disappeared at the end and during the Playoffs, so that is what I am getting at when I say I would like to see a larger sample size where he plays like a top 6 player.

 

[FlamerForLife]

Landeskog suspended 4 games for the cross-check on Tkachuk

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Ferland is playing like a legit top 6 forward, no doubt. I want to see how it lasts over the course of a full season, before I give him the HF special title of top six forward. If that makes me a hater, then so be it.

 

[Mobiandi]

Landeskog suspended 4 games for the cross-check on Tkachuk

That was a pretty vicious crosscheck. Kinda surprised they threw the book at him though

 

[Flameshomer]

That was a pretty vicious crosscheck. Kinda surprised they threw the boom at him though

I think he deserves more tbh. It is the exact thing he got suspended for last, so he clearly hasn't learned. They should double the previous suspension for repeat offenders.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

That was a pretty vicious crosscheck. Kinda surprised they threw the book at him though

If it wasn't the third attempt, I'd agree with you.

After connecting with his face on the third try, you can't really defend your actions as an accident, and are pretty much forced to admit "I wanted to hurt him"

 

[Ace Rimmer]

For me, its most of the season. Like if at the 60 game mark he is still producing then ill be convinced.

Fair enough.

I keep hearing he's been on the top line since the OT win in Nashville last season (late February) and he finished that season with 21 GP, 7G 3A 10 PTS. The first 22 games this season, he's 22 GP, 10G 4A 14 PTS

So over the past 43 games, that's 17 goals 7 assists.

I could understand the skepticism if he'd only been doing it for this season but he's shown he can do it with an reasonable consistency over the course of (parts of) two seasons on the top line.

I agree, would like to see what the next 20 games brings (and the 60 game mark this season as well) but I'm leaning towards thinking this is the type of player he was drafted to be, especially since he's got his personal demons under control.

Edit: I'm not saying he's a driver of offense, just that he's looking like a really good fit there.

 

[Lunatik]

Lol, you are the last person that should be lecturing posters about pettiness.

Jury should still be out on Kulak, he looked real bad two games ago when his minutes started getting ratcheted up. Keep them low and he seems alright for now though.

Ferland has performed for more than 15 games on the top line now, I think it's safe to say you were wrong about him too. His shot lately has been a revelation for that line, can't remember the last flame who was able to pot one timers from the top of the circle on an NHL goalie.

Versteeg... Versteeg sucks, don't know why/how he still has defenders.

And finally, Lack. I disagree thoroughly with your assertion that Lack just needed better d in front of him. His rebound control isn't even the same universe as Rittich's, which makes the D look extra porous. Additionally, his glove hand was weak, to put it mildly. To round things out, the guy sinks into his net on first opportunity, which amplifies the poorness of his glove hand. I think the opposite was happening before in his career- some really sound defensive units were masking a lot of his blemishes.

Ferland had a good 8 games when put on the top line last year, then went cold for the rest of the season and playoffs. This season he was cold for the first 7 games and has now been good for 15. Being cold longer than you're hot is not showing you are too 6 material. He needs to be more consistent and that takes a full season where he isn't cold for periods of 20 games.

You clearly missed my point on Lack. Had he had better defense in front of him and the team didn't take stupid penalties in front of him, he would have looked better and probably would have gotten another game.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Fair enough.

I keep hearing he's been on the top line since the OT win in Nashville last season (late February) and he finished that season with 21 GP, 7G 3A 10 PTS. The first 22 games this season, he's 22 GP, 10G 4A 14 PTS

So over the past 43 games, that's 17 goals 7 assists.

I could understand the skepticism if he'd only been doing it for this season but he's shown he can do it with an reasonable consistency over the course of (parts of) two seasons on the top line.

I agree, would like to see what the next 20 games brings (and the 60 game mark this season as well) but I'm leaning towards thinking this is the type of player he was drafted to be, especially since he's got his personal demons under control.

Edit: I'm not saying he's a driver of offense, just that he's looking like a really good fit there.

Problem is, in the last season numbers you quoted, it was something like 11 points in 11 GP, then 0 in the last 10 or something along those lines. Those 10 games + playoffs is why some of us are cautiously optimistic.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Fair enough.

I keep hearing he's been on the top line since the OT win in Nashville last season (late February) and he finished that season with 21 GP, 7G 3A 10 PTS. The first 22 games this season, he's 22 GP, 10G 4A 14 PTS

So over the past 43 games, that's 17 goals 7 assists.

I could understand the skepticism if he'd only been doing it for this season but he's shown he can do it with an reasonable consistency over the course of (parts of) two seasons on the top line.

I agree, would like to see what the next 20 games brings (and the 60 game mark this season as well) but I'm leaning towards thinking this is the type of player he was drafted to be, especially since he's got his personal demons under control.

Edit: I'm not saying he's a driver of offense, just that he's looking like a really good fit there.

I don't disagree with any of that at all, and if I was betting I would bet he will continue to look in place on the top line. He has had 20 game stretches like this before though, as you have pointed out.

I just want to see him extend that stretch beyond what he has shown us previously. By that I don't mean his current goal scoring pace either. Just something that justifies him playing on the top line.

 

[Lunatik]

Fair enough.

I keep hearing he's been on the top line since the OT win in Nashville last season (late February) and he finished that season with 21 GP, 7G 3A 10 PTS. The first 22 games this season, he's 22 GP, 10G 4A 14 PTS

So over the past 43 games, that's 17 goals 7 assists.

I could understand the skepticism if he'd only been doing it for this season but he's shown he can do it with an reasonable consistency over the course of (parts of) two seasons on the top line.

I agree, would like to see what the next 20 games brings (and the 60 game mark this season as well) but I'm leaning towards thinking this is the type of player he was drafted to be, especially since he's got his personal demons under control.

Edit: I'm not saying he's a driver of offense, just that he's looking like a really good fit there.

The people spouting that Ferland has been good since he joined the top line are ignoring that he went cold after 8 games and was a no show in the playoffs. A stretch that was 2.5x times as long as his hot streak.

 

[Lunatik]

Problem is, in the last season numbers you quoted, it was something like 11 points in 11 GP, then 0 in the last 10 or something along those lines. Those 10 games + playoffs is why some of us are cautiously optimistic.

6 goals in 8 games, 4 points over the next 20 including playoffs

 

[Flameshomer]

Ferland had a good 8 games when put on the top line last year, then went cold for the rest of the season and playoffs. This season he was cold for the first 7 games and has now been good for 15. Being cold longer than you're hot is not showing you are too 6 material. He needs to be more consistent and that takes a full season where he isn't cold for periods of 20 games.

You clearly missed my point on Lack. Had he had better defense in front of him and the team didn't take stupid penalties in front of him, he would have looked better and probably would have gotten another game.

I will concede the Ferland point, we'll see if he can keep his current play up for longer.

Regarding Lack I don't think I missed your point at all- what I replied was that I don't think our current defenders playing slightly better would have resulted in a better showing for him, for a few reasons:
- Lack's rebound control was terrible. Our team doesn't really have any defensemen who excel at clearing the front of the net and preventing the chances that are caused by these juicy rebounds.
- Lack has a tendency to shrink quickly back into his net. This makes his large body less effective at taking angles away from shooters. His tendency to back into the net and get almost flat to the goal line could also be feeding the rebound problem mentioned above, and definitely is made more noticeable by his poor glove hand
- Lack's poor glove hand is known around the league now, whereas it wasn't as certain in past seasons. Now that the book is out, he gets shelled pretty frequently up top.

So unless we change some D personnel I don't see Lack as a fit in net here. Shame I was pretty hopeful he could turn it around, but in his few flames appearances I got a sense all of the knocks we've heard against him over the last year were spot on.

 

[Lunatik]

The Lack vs Rittich thing is completely irrelevant to my point, so clearly you aren't understanding it.

I am simply saying, if Lack got a better effort in front of him against St. Louis and the Wings, he likely would have allowed a couple fewer goals and then maybe he would have gotten another game to showcase himself to management. I'm not making some big statement defnding Lack here, but the majority of his goals against were deflected, had poor defensive plays or were the result of stupid/untimely penalties.

 

[Anglesmith]

Yeah, I'm not sure why that's arguable with respect to Lack. The team had breakdown after breakdown with him in net. You don't expect a backup goalie to bail you out when you don't show up for a game. If you expect that, he should be your starter.

 

[herashak]

Lack didn’t look confident, but he didn’t play terrible. It’s just the potential payoff from having Rittich up is more than having Lack

 

[CamPopplestone]

Ferland fits in well on the top line right now, which doesn't necessarily mean he's a bona fide top 6 player. Sometimes players just fit with others and play above their paygrade, which there's nothing wrong with. See everyone that's pretty much ever played with the Sedins.

Ferland is more middle 6 than top 6 in my eyes, but his style of game compliments what Johnny and Monahan don't do pretty well. You'd want more of a power forward on that top line generally I think. And Ferland has enough ability with the puck to not fall behind them too much. But I don't think he could ever be the true, consistent driving force of a line in the top 6.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

The funny thing about Ferland. Is he’s been producing like that without PP points pretty much.

5 on 5 he’s been a great player the past two seasons. I don’t care what the numbers say. He’s a great player 5 on 5. He carried our bottom 6 last year. People seem to forget that’s

I’m not a huge fan of him on the PP but he’s been getting better at that recently too.

The sky is the limit for Ferland.

 

[Volica]

The people spouting that Ferland has been good since he joined the top line are ignoring that he went cold after 8 games and was a no show in the playoffs. A stretch that was 2.5x times as long as his hot streak.

To be fair, in the playoffs, who was a show?
Bennett, Backlund, and Brodie? The rest of the team were more or less either power-play specialists who were getting dominated 5v5 (Monahan & Versteeg), no shows (Gaudreau) or complete no shows (Frolik, Ferland, Tkachuk).

Just playing devil's advocate here.