Retread Oilers with Gretzky 91-94?

[WingsFan95]

I have looked over old threads (one from 2004) about discussions of an extended Gretzky Oilers tenure and ultimately I think most up for discussion is the 1991-94 period meaning 4 seasons with the 4 playoff runs.

In our timeline the Oil results were:

1991-Lost in 5 to North Stars Conference Final
I think this is clearly flipped to a Final at minimum. Against Pittsburgh would not only be a war but an absolutely legendary matchup. I think it tilts towards Edmonton in a 6-7 game series considering Minnesota got 2 wins and as much as I personally love Coffey there's something about the Oil knowing him I think would be a hindrance.

1992-Lost in 4 to Blackhawks Conference Final
The big question is Moose quite obviously. Anderson was traded too but I think in that case Damphouse comes out pretty good. Funny enough the Messier trade brought in Nicholls so that begs a lot of questions. Chicago was also a very strong team so by no means is this a guaranteed flip while by some metrics the Pens are a stronger team in the Final. However IF Messier stays on for whatever reason and the Oil technically have the mental edge of beating Pittsburgh year before, where exactly do the dominos fall?

1993-Out of Playoffs
Obviously in our timeline this team is now completely disbanded from the 90 Cup run and the Rangers have made their push. So I leave it to the expert to mull over how exactly this would roll but we know Gretz is still producing and even him by himself greatly elevates this squad. The playoffs are fairly weak as we know although Roy is still Roy however with a substantially elevated Oilers teams I think I would still favor them in the Final as opposed to the Kings team that Wayne took (though underrated for supporting cast).

1994-Out of Playoffs
I mean, yeah but some consideration has to be made for Jason Arnott who while being drafted 7th overall was the 5th Center taken so he could conceivably be drafted lower if Edmonton doesn't have as high of a pick, however going more for wingers or sticking with Centers on lower picks there are quite a few quality picks in this draft. Again what's really interesting like the 91 Pens situation is you have the New York Oilers in our timeline taking the Cup after narrowly beating Jersey and Vancouver. How does this play out with Gretzky in his arguably last great season?

Beyond 1994 I think we face three very clear factors:
Canadian Economy continues to be a problem along with Pocklington's financial problems
Gretzky is now in decline
Several contending teams in prime or on the upswing


As has been brought up many times Pocklington was going to do something after 88 so to assume everyone stays put into even 1992 is unlikely. However the Gretzky trade specifically lead to worsening finances due to attendance so it's certainly conceivable to imagine if other players like Kurri or Messier are traded instead the overall roster does survive until 93-94. Also the domino effect dictates they could luck out with some of their draft picks.




***BONUS CONSIDERATION***
The Oilers were eventually sold to a local group in 1998 to keep the team in the city. Ironically they would lose Curtis Joseph in free agency that summer which of course brings up a lot of questions if in the alternate timeline they get any top goaltender after Ranford. Gretzky was still pretty damn good in the 95-97 period as seen on the 97 Rangers so it would be interesting but again even the notion Pocklington doesn't sell off players for anywhere near that long is just foolhardy. However if he sells the team say 1996 maybe the Great One just retires in Edmonton or goes to a more stacked team like Detroit (finally) to win a last Cup.

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[Crosby2010]

Pocklington to this day still bothers me, even more so when he tries to justify the Gretzky trade. He was broke and that's why Gretzky got traded. It was not a hockey trade, it was a selfish trade from a crooked businessman. And it robbed people of seeing just how much the Gretzky Oilers could have done. I mentioned a while back that Jerry Krause blew up the Bulls after 1998 and I wondered how much more they had left. Most agree at best they had perhaps one championship left in them. I think they make a good run in 1999 with Phil Jackson coaching and the same core, but we'll never know. The Bulls were in the dumps after that anyway, so I see no reason to keep them together.

But anyway, the Oilers were in their primes in 1988, so was Gretzky. You let that ride out as long as you can. Either way I think we are seeing at least one Gretzky/Mario Cup final, which would have been sensational. Hockey hasn't had that in years with the two best players in the NHL in a Cup final.

I don't see why the Oilers can't go to at least the early 1990s as Cup champs. How did it work out for Pocklington afterwards? Not so good. The team went in the tank. How it could have been worse with the greatest player ever still on your roster and winning Cups is beyond me.

 

[buffalowing88]

Pocklington to this day still bothers me, even more so when he tries to justify the Gretzky trade. He was broke and that's why Gretzky got traded. It was not a hockey trade, it was a selfish trade from a crooked businessman. And it robbed people of seeing just how much the Gretzky Oilers could have done. I mentioned a while back that Jerry Krause blew up the Bulls after 1998 and I wondered how much more they had left. Most agree at best they had perhaps one championship left in them. I think they make a good run in 1999 with Phil Jackson coaching and the same core, but we'll never know. The Bulls were in the dumps after that anyway, so I see no reason to keep them together.

But anyway, the Oilers were in their primes in 1988, so was Gretzky. You let that ride out as long as you can. Either way I think we are seeing at least one Gretzky/Mario Cup final, which would have been sensational. Hockey hasn't had that in years with the two best players in the NHL in a Cup final.

I don't see why the Oilers can't go to at least the early 1990s as Cup champs. How did it work out for Pocklington afterwards? Not so good. The team went in the tank. How it could have been worse with the greatest player ever still on your roster and winning Cups is beyond me.

Jerry Krause also wasn't the owner and he was just reading the tea leaves at that point. While everyone seems to suggest The Last Dance is biased for Jordan and anti-Krause, the real issue to me was the lack of blame put on Pippen by the end. He was an absolute tyrant in the final season and there was zero chance he'd have stuck around for another run. Krause had to do something and I think it was justifiable at the time, even if it's unfortunate in retrospect.

Pocklington WAS the owner so I put a lot more blame on him. His financial struggles are hard to explain considering how successful the team was. He also had a star player who was, unlike Pippen and Jordan, not a diva. So Pocklington deserves a ton of blame.

 

[Crosby2010]

Jerry Krause also wasn't the owner and he was just reading the tea leaves at that point. While everyone seems to suggest The Last Dance is biased for Jordan and anti-Krause, the real issue to me was the lack of blame put on Pippen by the end. He was an absolute tyrant in the final season and there was zero chance he'd have stuck around for another run. Krause had to do something and I think it was justifiable at the time, even if it's unfortunate in retrospect.

Pocklington WAS the owner so I put a lot more blame on him. His financial struggles are hard to explain considering how successful the team was. He also had a star player who was, unlike Pippen and Jordan, not a diva. So Pocklington deserves a ton of blame.

Agreed on this, Pocklington really is his own worst enemy here and even though Gretzky seems to understand a bit more these days why he was traded (he says this in "Kings Ransom" documentary) it still is on Pocklington. Glen Sather apparently wanted to slug him when he was told about it.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

I think the better thought experiment is more along the lines of what becomes of the dynasty Oilers if they are allowed to run their course like the Islanders and Canadiens before them rather than being prematurely sabotaged. Pocklington was responsible for the departures of both Gretzky and Coffey. In any scenario where the team has a solid owner these two franchise cornerstones remain part of the team. What happens in that timeline?

 

[The Panther]

I'm of the (perhaps controversial) opinion that the Oilers were possibly better off having lost Coffey when they did. That is, Coffey was an obvious massive talent and a big part of their team's success from 1981 to 1986. He was a lesser part of the team's RS and playoff success in 1987, and then he was gone the next fall, early in 1987-88.

I say this only because the club realized after the 1986 loss to Calgary that their freewheeling, offense-at-all-costs style wasn't going to work anymore, and that they had to be able to play a more balanced game when called for. Coffey, as we know, was a big contributor to several great clubs (and championships), but he was not an easy player to coach because he had difficulty adapting his "high-risk, high-reward" style.

In exchange for Coffey, the Oilers received a then still 20-year-old Craig Simpson, who scored 78 goals in his first 125 games with Edmonton, and then led the 1990 playoffs in scoring. As Kurri and Anderson were just starting to slightly slow down by the late-80s, it was good to replace any lost scoring with Simpson. What I liked about him (although he was a rather slow skater and average passer) is that he was an Oiler. He bled the copper and blue and was a warrior in big games (opposite of Jimmy Carson, who immediately didn't fit in and couldn't handle the championship-team pressure).

The Coffey-less Oilers went 16-2 in the 1988 playoffs against maybe the toughest competition they ever faced on the road to the Cup. Glenn Anderson said he thought that was the best team they ever had. But Gretky was gone immediately after, which threw the team off the entire next season (understandably).

The Oilers' biggest roster-purge was actually three years later, in the summer (and a little bit the fall) of 1991. In that off-season, they lost:
- John Muckler (Cup winning head coach)
- Mark Messier
- Jari Kurri
- Glenn Anderson
- Grant Fuhr
- Jeff Beukeboom
- Adam Graves
- Steve Smith

The only transaction here that actually worked out for them was Fuhr and Anderson in exchange for Damphousse and Richardson. And then Damphousse left after one season -- in exchange for Shayne Corson, who sucked, and Brent Gilchrist, who lasted 60 games.

So, what if finances weren't an issue by 1988? If Gretky and Pocklington work out their ego-battle that season and Gretzky gets his new contract and stays, the Oilers certainly are Cup conteders in 1989, 1990, and 1991. Again, if finances aren't an issue at all, maybe that roster purge in 1991 doesn't happen. Sather may still have traded Fuhr and Anderson for Damphousse and GIlchrist, but maybe on a Gretzky / Messier-led team they want to stay, not leave.

If you put all the best-case possible scenarios in place, one could imagine that roster being Cup-competitive until 1994 or so. Don't know how many they could really win, but they'd certainly be in competition.

 

[golfortennis1]

Pocklington WAS the owner so I put a lot more blame on him. His financial struggles are hard to explain considering how successful the team was. He also had a star player who was, unlike Pippen and Jordan, not a diva. So Pocklington deserves a ton of blame.

The thing is, the Oilers weren't selling out by the end(regular season anyway.) People were just getting used to the winning and it was getting to be passe. Everyone likes to play the "Canadian team will be uber-supported when winning" angle, but that wasn't fully the case here, even with an historic team. The Oilers didn't rake in the money like you would assume, and what money they did make, it went to his other businesses.

Gretzky had made clear he was going to go into free agency the following year and be paid what he was worth. As restrictive as the FA rules were at the time, this was one player you could be certain teams were willing to pay the price for. So what do you do? Sather's "i'm taking care of you" while also making sure Pocklington didn't have to spend too much had worn thin.

Recall as well that you have a guy who for the first time missed a significant chunk of time(16 games after missing fewer than 10 the rest of the time), a guy who even the players weren't voting for the Pearson trophy anymore, and he was heading to free agency. From an asset management perspective, it was about the perfect time to trade/sell him.

 

[MadLuke]

Everything change butterfly effect wise and what not, but in that timeline does Gretzky still get Suterred, play only half of the 93 season, etc....

Maybe other team make more drastic move to try to beat them, because it seem with Messier-Gretzky they could have kept going for a long time, just looking at what both did in the 93 and 94 playoff.

 

[WingsFan95]

I think the better thought experiment is more along the lines of what becomes of the dynasty Oilers if they are allowed to run their course like the Islanders and Canadiens before them rather than being prematurely sabotaged. Pocklington was responsible for the departures of both Gretzky and Coffey. In any scenario where the team has a solid owner these two franchise cornerstones remain part of the team. What happens in that timeline?

I'm a massive Coffey fan but he excelled as change of scenery as both with Pittsburgh and Detroit he was great as a fresh acquisition that was somewhat figured out after 2-3 seasons.

That said it's not like they lost with Coffey in 88 or 90. I think complacency is a thing as look what happened with the Wings in 99-01 and 03-04 (as good as the Ducks and Flames were, common now).

So the Oilers may conceivably only win 1 more Cup in my mind being 1991 because the rivalry with Lemieux and the Oil being a more stacked team that let's face it if they are facing Coffey or win Coffey neither is an advantage for Pittsburgh. Then 93-94 are up in the air as players might try their hardest feeling the writing on the wall for their careers.

I mean an argument could be made the Islanders should have won more and the Penguins A LOT more.