Proposal: Reilly Smith for Kotkaniemi and a 3rd round pick

[Chan790]

Let’s try to make it a 2nd since they screwed us on that 1st for Guentzel.

They didn't screw you on the 1st...you got multiple much-better specs than are usually in these kinds of rental trades because you took a conditional 2nd instead.

The problem is that you set unrealistic expectations (fed by hockey media bullshitting for page-views) that you were going to get blue chip specs, then were disappointed you didn't get those.

 

[Gurglesons]

They didn't screw you on the 1st...you got multiple much-better specs than are usually in these kinds of rental trades because you took a conditional 2nd instead.

The problem is that you set unrealistic expectations (fed by hockey media bullshitting for page-views) that you were going to get blue chip specs, then were disappointed you didn't get those.

Didn't get anyone in the trade that is a sure fire NHLer and lost value in terms of future assets because we took Bunting.

Lame trade. It was like a Hossa lite deal. Quantity over quality. Would've been much happier with a 1st, Drury, and Ponomarev for example over Koivunen as the center piece.

 

[Jacob]

They didn't screw you on the 1st...you got multiple much-better specs than are usually in these kinds of rental trades because you took a conditional 2nd instead.

The problem is that you set unrealistic expectations (fed by hockey media bullshitting for page-views) that you were going to get blue chip specs, then were disappointed you didn't get those.

I’m talking about the 1st, fella.

 

[Jacob582]

Carolina needs to retain.

 

[PensandCaps]

No interest. Unless it's Smith for Drury straight up.



He's the type of player that goes on waivers consistently.

KK is younger has already had a 40 point season, was a great piece in two playoff runs, and paced for 30+ in multiple seasons.

But Drury putting up 27 points in 74 games along with 5 points in the playoffs as basically a rookie, is waiver wire worthy?

Do you think Drury is some career journeyman? this was his first season basically, don't act like we know what he is. And considering the performance of his play, he looks like someone who has value, more than Smith and a 3rd for sure.

 

[Gurglesons]

But Drury putting up 27 points in 74 games along with 5 points in the playoffs as basically a rookie, is waiver wire worthy?

Do you think Drury is some career journeyman? this was his first season basically, don't act like we know what he is. And considering the performance of his play, he looks like someone who has value, more than Smith and a 3rd for sure.

Yes. Players like that at 24 are consistently available on waivers.

9 goals and a handful of assists isn't anything impressive at his age. He's basically Valterri Puustinen with size and center flexiblity.

 

[LaMasquerade]

What an intriguing player (Kotkaniemi). I was dumbfound when he was drafter 3OA (even as Finn never realized he'd be even sure first rounder). And then all the drama with qualifying offers etc.
But, end of the day, he's still 23, and he has earned $13 million playing hockey in NA with (imho) quite marginal abilities. That is not bad. And I really doubt owners are willing to loose their money for nothing.. I just don't know what to think about him, really..
Wishing all the best anyways, seems to be nice guy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd easily do this. He's much better than Emp is making him out to be.

Considering how good he was last season, i doubt he turned into a bum overnight.

4.8 mil long term for a decent young 3C is fine by me. I don't see why Carolina would want useless Smith, besides for dumping salary.

Galchenyuk and Kapanen both turned into bums overnight. It's absolutely not unheard of.

 

[Qwijibo]

5 million dollars in terms of cap is around 6% of the cap next year. If the cap continues to go up Kotkaniemi's contract will be insignificant.

You should probably just keep him if his cap is insignificant

 

[Chan790]

You should probably just keep him if his cap is insignificant

Gurglesons is a Sabres fan.

Also, the reason Canes fans want to dump KK is that he's never going to be a 2C, he's completely redundant on a team that produces defensive bottom-6 Cs like they grow on trees, and his $4.8M would be better allocated toward re-signing Jarvis or Guentzel, or pursuing a RHD.

 

[Qwijibo]

Gurglesons is a Sabres fan.

Also, the reason Canes fans want to dump KK is that he's never going to be a 2C, he's completely redundant on a team that produces defensive bottom-6 Cs like they grow on trees, and his $4.8M would be better allocated toward re-signing Jarvis or Guentzel, or pursuing a RHD.

Regardless. At his level of play , with hos cap hit, and with the term left on his contact he's a negative value player

 

[chethejet]

I consider the deal if Canes want to move that contract for Smith but I want an additional player to offset the risk here. So add Morrow RD and I do that deal. Who is taking that contract with a better than average chance he never justifies that AAV, Canes unload some serious coin and that has a cost.

 

[bleedgreen]

If the Pens want it then it makes sense for the Canes. I think they need a reset and it may be time to step away from KK. I think he has something to offer as a bottom six but if the Pens will take the contract I think Smith could easily be a solid fit for a year. Hard to say which line he’d go to but I think he’s at worst a potential good fit with Staal.

I’d probably do it.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Rakell for Kotkaniemi is more balanced and could actually help both sides both as a change of scenery and as a long-term play to manage the cap.

The idea is that Carolina gets the shorter contract because they don't want dead money on the books for 12 years, but Pittsburgh gets the contract with the more favourable buyout.

Pittsburgh's window is closing within the next 2-3 seasons, then they will likely have to go into a full rebuild. In a scenario where they buyout Rakell this year or next year, they are hit with cap penalties as high as 2.9M. Those penalties all come within the next 3-4 seasons. That is when Pittsburgh might try to win before Crosby retires.

With Kotkaniemi, while his buyout his longer, the cap penalties range from approx. 400k-800k. So in a scenario where they gave Kotkaniemi 1 year to turn it around and then bought him out, the cap implications in the short term are a lot more positive. Given that Pittsburgh projects to rebuild after Crosby, 10 years of dead money will be irrelevant because a rebuild that won't start 3+ years from now will take 5+ years.

From Carolina's POV, just ride out Rakell and hope he is a better fit. Consider possibly buying him out 1-2 years from now. While the cap hit is higher, it will only be on the books for a few seasons, not a dozen.

 

[Chrispy]

Regardless. At his level of play , with hos cap hit, and with the term left on his contact he's a negative value player

But there’s no reason to attach any significant value to dump Kotkaniemi when the cap hit on a buyout would be only $850k.

So if someone doesn’t want to see if he can regain his 2023 calendar year form (47 points in 83 games from January to December 2023) then Carolina can buy him out and take the $4M in cap space.

 

[Vivaldi]

I think Kotkaniemi would fit really well in Pittsburgh just as Bunting has. Its pretty clear he's a fish out of water in Carolina and doesn't help that they're contending and have very little leeway on players. At this point he's basically Jordan Staal without the selke level defense (so not great), but if they put let him center a 3rd line with guys like Puustinen and Puljujarvi with 2nd unit PP and let him breathe he could be a very underrated acquisition. And Rakell is the perfect guy to move on from Pittsburgh who could do really well in Carolina riding shotgun with Aho or Kuznetsov

But there’s no reason to attach any significant value to dump Kotkaniemi when the cap hit on a buyout would be only $850k.

So if someone doesn’t want to see if he can regain his 2023 calendar year form (47 points in 83 games from January to December 2023) then Carolina can buy him out and take the $4M in cap space.

A team pressed against the cap might not want to have to wrestle with that annoyance for 14 years if it can be avoided. Its also more likely than not they could have other buyouts in the future on top of it that are unavoidable, like Vancouver's with OEL.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it would make substantially more sense to do something around Smith at 50% for Drury than trying to come up with anything around Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi's contract stinks and Carolina won't add enough value to compensate for anyone to take it on, just because of how tame the buyout is for them.

Smith at $2.5 million and maybe a small plus for Drury would be a lot more palatable if we're talking Smith to Carolina.

 

[Vivaldi]

Guess Canes don't value Drury as much as it seemed they would

 

[Dr Quincy]

How about a 3rd and Smith @ 50% for Drury instead? This original deal doesn’t make a lot of sense for either.

I don't see PIT doing that.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don't see PIT doing that.

Probably not but it doesn’t hurt to ask

 

[Chan790]

I think it would make substantially more sense to do something around Smith at 50% for Drury than trying to come up with anything around Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi's contract stinks and Carolina won't add enough value to compensate for anyone to take it on, just because of how tame the buyout is for them.

Smith at $2.5 million and maybe a small plus for Drury would be a lot more palatable if we're talking Smith to Carolina.

It's kind of a "Hit the Road, Jesperi." situation.

It's not worth talking about Drury because trading Drury doesn't get rid of Kotkaniemi who needs to go away.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see PIT doing that.

I think Smith at 50% for Drury straight up is pretty good. Maybe a small add from the Penguins side but I doubt it would get to the value of a 3rd.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think Smith at 50% for Drury straight up is pretty good. Maybe a small add from the Penguins side but I doubt it would get to the value of a 3rd.

The Canes aren’t trading Drury. Rod loves him and he’s the right choice for the 4C. Of course if a team really wanted him and overpaid or he was included in a huge trade for a stud he’d be included. Trading him for Smith makes zero sense and isn’t even what the thread is about.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Canes aren’t trading Drury. Rod loves him and he’s the right choice for the 4C. Of course if a team really wanted him and overpaid or he was included in a huge trade for a stud he’d be included. Trading him for Smith makes zero sense and isn’t even what the thread is about.

Okay. Smith for Kotkaniemi makes no sense for the Penguins, so might as well just close this thread.

Smith for Drury is what the Penguins would want, not Smith for Kotkaniemi.

 

[bleedgreen]

Okay. Smith for Kotkaniemi makes no sense for the Penguins, so might as well just close this thread.

Smith for Drury is what the Penguins would want, not Smith for Kotkaniemi.

Well we didn’t start the thread, and I wouldn’t have thought the Pens would want the proposed trade.