Reggie Leach vs. Steve Shutt

[WingsFan95]

Same length of career, Shutt has the 4 extra Cups on some of the most stacked teams in history being the 3-5th best offensive player (arguably outside Top 5 in value on team).

But is it a case where Shutt was better? And instead of asking the question on Leach deserving to be in the Hall as in part a social case (Manitoba community, battling alcoholism, etc) I'll ask if Shutt deserves induction himself.

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[BigBadBruins7708]

If you flipped their teams, Leach would be in and Shutt would be out. The biggest driver behind Shutt being in is the CH on his chest.

Granted, he's not the most egregious case of that on the 70s Habs, that distinction goes to Lemaire.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Lemaire? That's the guy you're gonna single out there? Oh man...that's a really bad read. That feels like a stat watch to me...brutal.

Anyhow...I have Shutt ahead because he was quicker in small areas. So, he was more versatile to me. He had a better shot too. I think both players are a little lesser than their numbers suggest probably. But Shutt had better small area footwork for me, he had better hockey sense, he had a better shot (power and accuracy) and I think he's a better support player than Leach.

It'd be wise for me to go back and do a deeper dive on the video for this, but I was just watching a bunch of mid 70's games and that's my take away without focusing on either player. I think it's pretty consistent with how I felt about each player going in...

 

[MadLuke]

Lemaire was 5th in goals and 6th in points in the regular season, while scoring the most goals and points in the playoff during his career...

Does not look bad stats wise really, even considering what he brought outside them, 8 cups, etc... Maybe it is a bit overrating what scoring looked like before 1980 if people find it too low.

 

[wetcoast]

If you flipped their teams, Leach would be in and Shutt would be out. The biggest driver behind Shutt being in is the CH on his chest.

I agree with this and I really have to wonder if the Canucks had taken Shutt and the Habs Don Lever if Lever makes the HHOF, Shutt as a Canuck almost certainly would not have.

Granted, he's not the most egregious case of that on the 70s Habs, that distinction goes to Lemaire.

As much as I agree on the first point I totally disagree on Lemaire he really get under rated at times and especially here.

If you said Bob Gainey.......

 

[Moose Head]

I agree with this and I really have to wonder if the Canucks had taken Shutt and the Habs Don Lever if Lever makes the HHOF, Shutt as a Canuck almost certainly would not have.



As much as I agree on the first point I totally disagree on Lemaire he really get under rated at times and especially here.

If you said Bob Gainey.......

Amongst the HOFers on the late 70’s Dynasty, Bowman ranked them in the following manner:

Lafleur
Savard
Robinson
Gainey
Lemaire
Lapointe
Cournoyer
Shutt
Dryden

 

[wetcoast]

Amongst the HOFers on the late 70’s Dynasty, Bowman ranked them in the following manner:

Lafleur
Savard
Robinson
Gainey
Lemaire
Lapointe
Cournoyer
Shutt
Dryden

Is that from his top Canadians of all time list in that Hockey News special magazine?

Also Cournoyer only played on 2 of the late 70s teams in the post season.

But then again Scotty had a really weird list , so weird in fact that had a new poster named John smith come into this section with such a list it probably would have been rejected in a top Canadian players of all time project.

 

[Moose Head]

Is that from his top Canadians of all time list in that Hockey News special magazine?

Also Cournoyer only played on 2 of the late 70s teams in the post season.

But then again Scotty had a really weird list , so weird in fact that had a new poster named John smith come into this section with such a list it probably would have been rejected in a top Canadian players of all time project.

Yeah, it’s that list. While it did have oddities, it is interesting how he ranked his own players.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Is that from his top Canadians of all time list in that Hockey News special magazine?

Also Cournoyer only played on 2 of the late 70s teams in the post season.

But then again Scotty had a really weird list , so weird in fact that had a new poster named John smith come into this section with such a list it probably would have been rejected in a top Canadian players of all time project.

As a frequent screener, no we wouldn't, as it doesn't have any apparent errors or oversights on it. Now if he forgot Lapointe and ranked Savard twice, he's hearing from old JE about it.

Lots of people would have complained to us that we weren't properly policing Scotty's taste in players though, that much is true.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Amongst the HOFers on the late 70’s Dynasty, Bowman ranked them in the following manner:

Lafleur
Savard
Robinson
Gainey
Lemaire
Lapointe
Cournoyer
Shutt
Dryden

Dabbling in watching more of these Canadiens teams, I don't think I've ever been closer to this list as I am now. I might swap Lemaire up a rung (hell, maybe Savard too). I might swap Dryden and Cournoyer, perhaps. Maybe Shutt and Cournoyer. But conceptually, I don't think this is at all disagreeable.

 

[Crosby2010]

Lemaire is a legit Hall of Famer. I think we should clear that up. He's in there, and honestly I am not sure there has been a discussion I've ever heard that say he shouldn't be included. The regular seasons are alright, but it is his postseason resume that gets you talking. 8 Cups, 139 playoff points, Two Cup winning goals, several brilliant playoff runs, led the playoffs in points once. And even then he was still 4th, 5th and 10th in points in a season. He's in and rightly so.

Between Shutt and Leach I am going to go with Shutt simply because he was more consistent. I assume it is the alcohol that did it for Leach, but if you look at his big years like 1976 and 1980, he has some lousy ones in between despite being on great teams. I think a sober Reggie Leach is comfortably in the HHOF. Shutt at least remained consistent. 1974-'81 he was pretty good and while you can trace his success around Lafleur's success and big years you have to point to his contributions to a dynasty as well. Shutt was a point a game in every playoff during the 4 Cups in a row. 61 points in 53 games. He wasn't just standing there having Lafleur bounce pucks off of him and into the net.

 

[wetcoast]

As a frequent screener, no we wouldn't, as it doesn't have any apparent errors or oversights on it. Now if he forgot Lapointe and ranked Savard twice, he's hearing from old JE about it.

Lots of people would have complained to us that we weren't properly policing Scotty's taste in players though, that much is true.

Fair enough as I recall someone had Gretzky 6 or 7 all time in the top 40 playoff performers list.

 

[JianYang]

If you flipped their teams, Leach would be in and Shutt would be out. The biggest driver behind Shutt being in is the CH on his chest.

Granted, he's not the most egregious case of that on the 70s Habs, that distinction goes to Lemaire.

Leach certainly seemed more dynamic to me than shutt. I think on a standalone basis, leach was the better talent.

I don't agree at all about lemaire, though. He was a huge peice in those 70s Habs.

 

[Staniowski]

Shutt for sure.

People make fun of Shutt a lot, but he was actually a very good hockey player. It's true that he wasn't a super-great, and the '70s NHL was lacking in talent compared to the '80s and '90s, so he didn't have great competition.

But he was a very good goal-scorer, smart, hard-working, decent defensively, and an excellent partner for Lafleur. The two of them were a constant for many years, they played with several Cs: H. Richard, P. Mahovlich, Lemaire, Larouche, Mondou.