Rumor: Red Wings have multiple short-term offers on table for Green

[LeafsNation75]

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[Hatter of the Beach]

Unsurprising, bit disappointing it's a multi year offer, but Green was bar none our best defenseman last year, and while we are in no way competing for a playoff spot, will be good for Hronek to learn from.

Would have preferred a one year deal so we can ship him off like we were supposed to last season.

 

[Hammettf2b]

It's a 1 and 2 year deal offer. If he does sign, it better not be with a NTC attached.

 

[golffuul]

So if Green signs, there is zero chance of a young defender making the team, unless Detroit trades someone who is already on our roster (DeKeyser/Kronwall/Daley/Ericsson). Green (and Jensen) would constitute the 6 spots for a d-man and there is no way that Hronek or Hicketts will be a 7th d-man when they need consistent playing time to develop better.

So unless Kronwall LTI-Retires or one of Ericsson (who could also LTI-Retire), Daley, or DeKeyser gets traded...it makes no sense for Detroit to make this move.

I simply don't understand how you get younger and rebuild your team faster by pursuing Green (and even Kovalchuk for that matter), when you have no chance whatsoever of competing for a Cup in the next 5+ years. Detroit would have to be playing out of their minds and Toronto, Tampa, and Boston take a nose-dive for them to even sniff the playoffs.

This is clearly Ken Holland being Ken Holland and trying to figure out a way to bring a playoff run to a brand new arena, rather than admitting that he has royally messed up the franchise since Lidstrom retired. He should have retired, like he said he would, when Lidstrom left the game.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Unsurprising, bit disappointing it's a multi year offer, but Green was bar none our best defenseman last year, and while we are in no way competing for a playoff spot, will be good for Hronek to learn from.

Would have preferred a one year deal so we can ship him off like we were supposed to last season.

Hronek will learn what exactly? How to blow coverage or overthink the game and make bad decisions? Green might have put up the most points as a defensemen on this team but him being the "best", which is arguable, isn't saying much based on the other defensemen we have.

 

[Oddbob]

It's a 1 and 2 year deal offer. If he does sign, it better not be with a NTC attached.

I can't see Green not wanting a NTC/NMC! That said, I am fine with him moving on!

 

[ShelbyZ]

So if Green signs, there is zero chance of a young defender making the team, unless Detroit trades someone who is already on our roster (DeKeyser/Kronwall/Daley/Ericsson). Green (and Jensen) would constitute the 6 spots for a d-man and there is no way that Hronek or Hicketts will be a 7th d-man when they need consistent playing time to develop better.

So unless Kronwall LTI-Retires or one of Ericsson (who could also LTI-Retire), Daley, or DeKeyser gets traded...it makes no sense for Detroit to make this move.

I simply don't understand how you get younger and rebuild your team faster by pursuing Green (and even Kovalchuk for that matter), when you have no chance whatsoever of competing for a Cup in the next 5+ years. Detroit would have to be playing out of their minds and Toronto, Tampa, and Boston take a nose-dive for them to even sniff the playoffs.

This is clearly Ken Holland being Ken Holland and trying to figure out a way to bring a playoff run to a brand new arena, rather than admitting that he has royally messed up the franchise since Lidstrom retired. He should have retired, like he said he would, when Lidstrom left the game.

Holy narrative!

On the other side of the coin... having a legitimate puck moving dman and PPQB probably helps the development of their young forwards and likely some of their more offensive minded D prospects.

Holland's basically already said that at least one young Dman will make the team next season (hence why Ouellet is basically already gone).

As for room on the roster, Jensen can easily slide down to #7 if need be, and I'll bet Kronwall moves into more of a "97 and 98 Fetisov like" part time role where he gets some nights off. The Red Wings also dressed 7 D on a few occasions last season. Jensen (and Green if he signs a 1 year deal) is probably gone at the deadline, further opening the door for the young guys. This is also the Red Wings... so you can expect there will likely be openings from injuries at various points in the season.

 

[golffuul]

Holy narrative!

On the other side of the coin... having a legitimate puck moving dman and PPQB probably helps the development of their young forwards and likely some of their more offensive minded D prospects.

Holland's basically already said that at least one young Dman will make the team next season (hence why Ouellet is basically already gone).

As for room on the roster, Jensen can easily slide down to #7 if need be, and I'll bet Kronwall moves into more of a "97 and 98 Fetisov like" part time role where he gets some nights off. The Red Wings also dressed 7 D on a few occasions last season. Jensen (and Green if he signs a 1 year deal) is probably gone at the deadline, further opening the door for the young guys. This is also the Red Wings... so you can expect there will likely be openings from injuries at various points in the season.

I think you might have missed my initial point, that being that there is no point in having Hicketts or Hronek with the big club if they are the 5th/6th/7th defenceman. They need minutes, which means top 4. Jensen may be a classic 7th d-man, but as long as you have 5 d-men making $3M+/year, Hronek and Hicketts won't sniff a top 4 spot. So something has to give. You have to trade someone, or more than one someone, to make room for Green and one or both of Hronek/Hicketts. I like Green and think he's done well for us. I just don't get the whole point of saying that you are hopeful for one or both of Hronek/Hicketts to make the team, but yet take away potential spots before they have a chance to fulfill your wishes. It's like saying we want more youth on the team and then sign Cleary to a 3-year deal. Holland likes to say things, but his track record, since Lidstrom's retirement, has shown that he hasn't been able to move the franchise beyond 2012. He likes to make homerun swings for unattainable folks, and aside from the Vanek signing and maybe Witkowski (only because he's a depth/role player), I'm not sure we have ever signed a FA forward who did anything for the team other than keep a younger player from getting playing time.

I'm just fed up with Holland and tired of him talking one way and acting another.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

I think you might have missed my initial point, that being that there is no point in having Hicketts or Hronek with the big club if they are the 5th/6th/7th defenceman. They need minutes, which means top 4. Jensen may be a classic 7th d-man, but as long as you have 5 d-men making $3M+/year, Hronek and Hicketts won't sniff a top 4 spot. So something has to give. You have to trade someone, or more than one someone, to make room for Green and one or both of Hronek/Hicketts. I like Green and think he's done well for us. I just don't get the whole point of saying that you are hopeful for one or both of Hronek/Hicketts to make the team, but yet take away potential spots before they have a chance to fulfill your wishes. It's like saying we want more youth on the team and then sign Cleary to a 3-year deal. Holland likes to say things, but his track record, since Lidstrom's retirement, has shown that he hasn't been able to move the franchise beyond 2012. He likes to make homerun swings for unattainable folks, and aside from the Vanek signing and maybe Witkowski (only because he's a depth/role player), I'm not sure we have ever signed a FA forward who did anything for the team other than keep a younger player from getting playing time.

I'm just fed up with Holland and tired of him talking one way and acting another.

If Hicketts is on big club you guys have major problems on D

 

[golffuul]

If Hicketts is on big club you guys have major problems on D

Have you seen our D? This was the team that thought that Brendan Smith would replace Lidstrom as the team's #1 d-man. There is a whole level of delusion going on in the front office.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Have you seen our D? This was the team that thought that Brendan Smith would replace Lidstrom as the team's #1 d-man. There is a whole level of delusion going on in the front office.

Source on anybody saying anything like that ever?

 

[golffuul]

Source on anybody saying anything like that ever?

"Best" D prospect with no one else who could play higher minutes...after Lidstrom was retired? If he wasn't being considered to be the #1 d-man for the team, during his development period with the Red Wings, then that would be the real need for a source.

 

[golffuul]

Source on anybody saying anything like that ever?

And just in case you actually wanted proof. Here ya go:

Detroit Red Wings: All Eyes on Brendan Smith!

And the money quote: "Smith was and is being looked at as the cornerstone piece in preparation of filling the gap Lidstrom will leave in his retirement whenever (or if ever) that may be."

 

[Chimaera]

I know he still keeps a house in the DC area, and I wouldn't complain if the Caps kicked the tires on him as a cheap signing with incentives. Especially if they decide they can't stomach what Carlson costs.

 

[hb12xchamps]

I could see Green holding off on signing right away just to see what happens to Carlson with the hopes that the Caps circle back and offer him a deal if Carlson prices himself out. Him and his wife renovated a house in DC and I think his wife is from DC as well

 

[Hockeyholic]

Unsurprising, bit disappointing it's a multi year offer, but Green was bar none our best defenseman last year, and while we are in no way competing for a playoff spot, will be good for Hronek to learn from.

Would have preferred a one year deal so we can ship him off like we were supposed to last season.

Which is the equivlant of a High School student getting the highest grade in a class that is full of drug addicts and pot heads.

 

[AD1066]

I don't have an issue with this assuming they flip him at the deadline. But with Ken Holland, perhaps that's a big assumption.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I think you might have missed my initial point, that being that there is no point in having Hicketts or Hronek with the big club if they are the 5th/6th/7th defenceman. They need minutes, which means top 4. Jensen may be a classic 7th d-man, but as long as you have 5 d-men making $3M+/year, Hronek and Hicketts won't sniff a top 4 spot. So something has to give. You have to trade someone, or more than one someone, to make room for Green and one or both of Hronek/Hicketts. I like Green and think he's done well for us. I just don't get the whole point of saying that you are hopeful for one or both of Hronek/Hicketts to make the team, but yet take away potential spots before they have a chance to fulfill your wishes. It's like saying we want more youth on the team and then sign Cleary to a 3-year deal. Holland likes to say things, but his track record, since Lidstrom's retirement, has shown that he hasn't been able to move the franchise beyond 2012. He likes to make homerun swings for unattainable folks, and aside from the Vanek signing and maybe Witkowski (only because he's a depth/role player), I'm not sure we have ever signed a FA forward who did anything for the team other than keep a younger player from getting playing time.

I'm just fed up with Holland and tired of him talking one way and acting another.

I guess I missed it because it's silly and completely unrealistic. Even with 15-16 sheltered minutes a night in the NHL, a young dman is still going to learn the NHL game. No sane NHL organization would immediately toss a young player into tough assignments which might lead to destroyed confidence and a stagnated or regressed performance... Ask the Oilers how that worked out with Justin Schultz... You are going to be hard pressed to find many examples of young dmen with little to no NHL experience being immediately gifted top 4 spots, outside of guys that were taken with top 5 draft picks. But that also doesn't mean they're simply going to get Brian Lashoff spot duty.

Trust me, I understand the frustration with Holland UFA signings. I was literally the only Red Wings fan on the planet that hated the initial Green signing 3 years ago and I've rolled my eyes at most of the others. That said, which worthwhile young forwards were kept from getting ice time and then actually moved on to become something decent at the NHL level? About the only ones I can think of Janmark and Jarnkrok, who are basically depth players for their respective current NHL clubs. Guys like AA, Larkin, Mantha and Jurco were all given regular spots while still waiver exempt and Holland could've instead signed some vets.

How is Holland (at least recently) talking one way and acting another? When the team wasn't going to make the playoffs last year, he dealt out some rentals at the deadline. He went into last summer (erroneously) looking to get the team back into the playoffs hoping some younger guys would improve or make a bigger impact (IE Larkin, Mantha, AA, Ouellet, Jensen, Bertuzzi), and guys that were injured or had pretty down seasons in 16-17 would rebound (Larkin, Howard, Mrazek, Sheahan, DeKeyser, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Tatar, Nyquist). He made minor signings in Daley (since they had no young dman ready to step in yet) and Witkowski and left space open for Bertuzzi to start the season on the 4th line. Again, what forwards were kept from getting ice time last season?

When the season didn't go how he planned, he adjusted and once again became a seller at the deadline and got a decent haul by getting rid of Mrazek and Tatar, then they eventually gave NHL ice time to Svechnikov. he's also indicated that Rasmussen is likely to be a regular next. Possibly Svechnikov too. Now he's even admitted the team won't be competitive for a couple seasons while they rebuild.

I know the guy has made some awful decisions when the team was basically barely hanging onto a playoff spot and I've been right there with the criticism. What gets annoying is while the guy is starting to do the things you'd expect a GM to do on a team that is at the bottom of the NHL, fans can't let go of tired narratives. Guy hasn't made a deadline deal or signed a guy to a longterm UFA contract or extension since they were still a playoff team, had 5 sophomore or rookie forwards play regular roles last season, and has brought in a significant haul of picks to help speed up a rebuild. I don't know what more he could do... Burn the team down Oilers and Sabres style and just endlessly suck for years? Invent a time machine and go back and start tanking immediately after Lidstroms retirement? Hold a press conference admitting guilt and hold a night at LCA where he's allowed to stand at center ice and be pelted by tomatoes? It's like for some of these fans, if they're going to be stuck with Holland, they'd actually prefer he keep handing out bad contracts and keeping kids in GR for 3-4 years because they're too comfortable in their disdain...

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Which is the equivlant of a High School student getting the highest grade in a class that is full of drug addicts and pot heads.

Most potheads I knew in school went to top tier schools lmao. One literally works for NASA. I get your point, but still let's be real, Mike Green is bare minimum a good power play quarter back on any team in the NHL. Even on a team like Nashville he would likely be their second option.

Our defense sucks, but Green can still play, and certainly can help Hronek's O game

 

[TCNorthstars]

And just in case you actually wanted proof. Here ya go:

Detroit Red Wings: All Eyes on Brendan Smith!

And the money quote: "Smith was and is being looked at as the cornerstone piece in preparation of filling the gap Lidstrom will leave in his retirement whenever (or if ever) that may be."

So that is speculation by some no-name bleacherreport guy. Cool.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Let Green walk, I'd much rather give a shot to one of the kids like Hronek. Ouellet is as good as gone probably will be put on waivers there's mention of Jensen as well being available. So it sounds like Holland wants to give some of the kids a chance Hicketts will replace Ouellet that's guaranteed.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Someone's going to offer him 3 or 4 years and regret it a year from now.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Most potheads I knew in school went to top tier schools lmao. One literally works for NASA. I get your point, but still let's be real, Mike Green is bare minimum a good power play quarter back on any team in the NHL. Even on a team like Nashville he would likely be their second option.

Our defense sucks, but Green can still play, and certainly can help Hronek's O game

He's definitely a good D. My point is being a # 1 D on a team full of thrash D isn't a huge accomplishment.

Most potheads at my school dropped out in grade ten.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Let Green walk, I'd much rather give a shot to one of the kids like Hronek. Ouellet is as good as gone probably will be put on waivers there's mention of Jensen as well being available. So it sounds like Holland wants to give some of the kids a chance Hicketts will replace Ouellet that's guaranteed.

Honestly I'm afraid of letting Hronek and Cholo up on the big team to get shelled nightly.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Let Green walk, I'd much rather give a shot to one of the kids like Hronek. Ouellet is as good as gone probably will be put on waivers there's mention of Jensen as well being available. So it sounds like Holland wants to give some of the kids a chance Hicketts will replace Ouellet that's guaranteed.

It's a long season and injuries will occur.

Red Wings will be sellers again and it would be a much better position to have depth to deal like Eriksson, Kronwall, Daley because you'd still have a guy like Green to insulate the youngsters.

The youngsters also got lots to learn from a part season down in the AHL or as the #6/7 in the NHL.

Cap space can't be carried forward.

There will be lots of opportunity for youngsters.