News Article: Red Wings have lost that magic feeling

[The Zetterberg Era]

Teams that lost in round 1 and 2 were legit cup contenders?

Yes that can apply.

I am also not as high on using 20/20 hindsight as most. I remember the faith you could have in certain teams.

The 11/12 Red Wings through 60 games were playing full games and destroying people. It is part of the reason why even when the wheels fell off to injury they still finished with a massive goal differential in the top 5 of the entire NHL. We have watched some really good teams over the years have some really bad series and flame out unexpectedly.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Teams that lost in round 1 and 2 were legit cup contenders?

Edmonton and Washington were cup contenders (even though you know they would choke). Last year and they lost in round 2

 

[Claypool]

I think the biggest problem was Holland too desperately trying to preserve the streak at the expense of any future planning.

Because he signed a couple vets on one year deals? Being desperate to extend the streak would be dealing Larkin, Mantha, or first round picks. He's held onto his assets and picks, and in some cases acquired even more assets and picks. The problem, if you want to call it that, is Zetterberg and Datsyuk took too long to slow down, and guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, and Mrazek never took the next step like they were expected to.

 

[opivy]

I think people are misreading his quote. He means that the players themselves were dialed in with their preparations, that they'd been together forever, and that the older team all had the "pro" ritual down to a tee. No one needed to be taught, no one needed to be reminded and everyone knew their role.

Now you have a team with many people vying for positions, and new guard coming in, new leadership, new rituals, new preparation from the coaching carousel (Tons of different assistants with Blash). These all lead to someone like Ericsson who was counted on for small bit parts to feel a bit lost because the young guys are most likely looking to him for more and needing a bit more out of him. He's looked lost at times on the ice and I imagine it extends to other places.

Just my take on it.

 

[Syckle78]

Rafalski retired the off-season before that.... The 11-12 team is the one that picked up Quincey to play #6 at the deadline for a first. Which a lot of people thought at the time had us as the deepest blueline in the NHL. Hudler, Franzen and Filppula were all exceptional that season. A bunch of guys really had high levels of play that year.

They were incredible at home and in a position to win the President's trophy and one Kesler slash later, Datsyuk and Lidstrom get dinged it just got totally derailed in February to the end of the season... I still think that team was winning that year if they could have gotten healthy for the playoffs. Had they never had big injury issues and got to play with the home ice they would have been near impossible to get that year. With home change Filppula-Zetterberg-Hudler were mauling people.

Who in the world thought we had one of the deepest defenses in the league at that point? I rememremember when that trade was made and it was completely underwhelming.

You're really overeating that team. Yea they had that historic home win streak but that seemed like nothing more than trivia. Did we really feel like that team was a really contender at that point? I sure didn't.

 

[Syckle78]

Edmonton and Washington were cup contenders (even though you know they would choke). Last year and they lost in round 2

Edmonton was not a cup contender and nobody thought they were,give me a break.

 

[theYman]

It sounds like a veteran who's confused at being a veteran of the game. Ericsson, yeah you're a veteran now. Now go out there and teach someone something.

 

[Winger98]

Because he signed a couple vets on one year deals? Being desperate to extend the streak would be dealing Larkin, Mantha, or first round picks. He's held onto his assets and picks, and in some cases acquired even more assets and picks. The problem, if you want to call it that, is Zetterberg and Datsyuk took too long to slow down, and guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, and Mrazek never took the next step like they were expected to.

Sammy, Tootoo, and Bertuzzi were all multi-year deals. The Cleary mess. Extending Quincey. Extending Gator and Helm. The multi-year deal to Nielsen. Holland continually capped out and clogged the roster with overpaid, underproductive players. What we're seeing this and last year is what we should have seen four years ago, with UFA dealt off for picks, summer signings limited, and kids pulled onto the Wings more aggressively rather than waiting for injuries to make the decision for them.

 

[njx9]

Weird that, when your veterans know there aren't any consequences to poor play or lack of effort, and that with very few exceptions none of them provide any actual leadership, preparation and knowing you "could turn around games and win" go away. But god forbid you don't bring back every single mediocre bottom 6er and fringe defenseman - the "kids" wouldn't possibly know what to do without all that "leadership".

 

[The Zermanator]

Sammy, Tootoo, and Bertuzzi were all multi-year deals. The Cleary mess. Extending Quincey. Extending Gator and Helm. The multi-year deal to Nielsen. Holland continually capped out and clogged the roster with overpaid, underproductive players. What we're seeing this and last year is what we should have seen four years ago, with UFA dealt off for picks, summer signings limited, and kids pulled onto the Wings more aggressively rather than waiting for injuries to make the decision for them.

And what makes those Helm and Nielsen signings even worse is that he traded Datsyuk and went down in the draft, missing out on a dman who played in the NHL at 18 for a 'project', and then completely squandered that move by using up all the cap space to make two signings that would put the team in an even bigger hole.

I think at some point Holland started making moves for his legacy, and not for the medium-long term health of the franchise.

 

[DetroitRed]

From a player's standpoint and from a coach's standpoint, you don't ever allow yourself an excuse for not performing well as a team, like 'we don't have quite enough talent.' So, if you aren't winning enough, then you try harder and keep trying to figure out ways to win more games somehow, and if you try hard enough it will pay off to a certain extent. However, regardless of whether you should admit it or not, you may ultimately just be kind of repeatedly hitting your head against a brick wall that you can't/wont even allow yourself to name. That wall is reality and it's often called 'We don't have quite as much talent as other teams.'

I think there's a bit of that going on with the Red Wings. Whoever's fault it is that they aren't great this season, I think the team is still performing better than most people expected. Since it wasn't as expected for them to do even this well, what's going right for the Wings (rather than wrong) is probably the more interesting conversation to have right now.

 

[ShelbyZ]

And what makes those Helm and Nielsen signings even worse is that he traded Datsyuk and went down in the draft, missing out on a dman who played in the NHL at 18 for a 'project', and then completely squandered that move by using up all the cap space to make two signings that would put the team in an even bigger hole.

I think at some point Holland started making moves for his legacy, and not for the medium-long term health of the franchise.

What makes that Datsyuk contract dump even worse, is that it was made on the premise that they would need the room IF they had any chance of signing Stamkos.... who we later find out didn't even want to visit Detroit....

On your 2nd point, I've often wondered if Holland operated to give the finger to the league for the bringing in the cap to stop teams like the Red Wings/Rangers/Flyers/etc, whose two main team building blocks were netting big $ UFA's and pick/prospect dumping deadline deals for top players. His team won a Cup and then lost in game 7 in the finals after being able to grab a legit top pairing dman and then a top line winger on the UFA market. As other teams learned the hard way and/or adapted by making hard decisions proactively, attaining assets by trading secondary players that might be hard to afford if they get close to or hit the UFA market, Holland just stuck to the UFA market. I clearly remember 11-12 coming to a close where they had already lost a somewhat regressed Rafalski and knew that also regressed Stuart and one of the greatest dmen to ever play were leaving that summer and the pitch was basically "Well we've prepared for it with the Quincey trade, and we've basically already got a Suter jersey hanging in the locker room." And we all know how those moves worked out... Meanwhile that summer, they're sitting on a 1 year till UFA coming off a career year Filppula, a few months after the Preds tossed out a 1st for an over rated 4th line center. Probably a prime opportunity to grab some assets to help the blueline, especially when you consider the Wings went into the next season with something like 5 extra forwards after they begged Cleary to come back. Then while Fil struggled through 12-13 and we were constantly reminded that he was a likely goner when he hits the UFA market, the on the bubble Red Wings decided he needed to stay on the team while an equally struggling and older Martin Erat was fetching Filip Forsberg at the deadline... But of course, no big deal, "The Red Wings are the front runners to sign Stephen Weiss".

 

[InjuredChoker]

Who in the world thought we had one of the deepest defenses in the league at that point? I rememremember when that trade was made and it was completely underwhelming.

You're really overeating that team. Yea they had that historic home win streak but that seemed like nothing more than trivia. Did we really feel like that team was a really contender at that point? I sure didn't.

to me, they felt like one before the injuries to datsyuk and lidström. datsyuk was playing MVP hockey before he injured his knee, i think it was in a collision with toews and he never recovered.

 

[Flowah]

I think he's basically saying that its apparent their roster isn't good enough to win, and the players know it.

That's how I read it.

”We just knew we could turn around games and win. That feeling, especially last year, wasn’t there. And, it’s tough to get that feeling back.”

Yeah. Because the team's not good like it used to be.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

It's not really a motivation issue. The issue is that the Wings simply can't afford to make a single mistake on most nights if they want to be competitive. Talented rosters have a huge margin for error when it comes to winning.

Talented rosters can still be consistently good even if they only show up for one period. Teams like Detroit can't afford bad periods on most nights.

Ten years ago the Wings knew they had the more talented roster most nights.

Today the Wings know they will be facing a more talented opponent most of the time.

While many on this site seem to disagree, I really do not think this team is as bad on paper as some make it out to be. The cause of the problems are obviously multi faceted though.

We have way too many complimentary players who Holland seemed to think were Core pieces

 

[ricky0034]

Who in the world thought we had one of the deepest defenses in the league at that point? I rememremember when that trade was made and it was completely underwhelming.

You're really overeating that team. Yea they had that historic home win streak but that seemed like nothing more than trivia. Did we really feel like that team was a really contender at that point? I sure didn't.

they did have the best even strength goal differential in the entire NHL that season

 

[Bench]

Magic Man leaves. Magic feeling lost.

This isn't rocket surgery.

 

[jkutswings]

Nashville series was when this team died. Since then it's basically been Weekend at Bernie's.

Spot on. Once they lost that series - in convincing fashion, against a team that had always been their personal whipping boy - then failed to do anything about it in the offseason, I knew their days of contention were over, and I've been rooting for a full-on rebuild and/or regime change ever since.

During the two series against San Jose after the Finals collapse, you could tell they were outclassed, but still competitive. As if they just needed one extra piece to get them back in the mix. But once they got trucked by Nashville, they needed either a major reload or a major rebuild if they were ever going to have a real shot at another Cup, and neither happened.

 

[Claypool]

Spot on. Once they lost that series - in convincing fashion, against a team that had always been their personal whipping boy - then failed to do anything about it in the offseason, I knew their days of contention were over, and I've been rooting for a full-on rebuild and/or regime change ever since.

So in your view they should have traded Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Frazen, Kronwall, etc. and burned the entire thing down after the Nashville series? Your idea of a rebuild is never, ever going to happen so you may has well change your avatar back the Lightning now that they're doing well this season.

 

[HIFE]

So in your view they should have traded Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Frazen, Kronwall, etc. and burned the entire thing down after the Nashville series? Your idea of a rebuild is never, ever going to happen so you may has well change your avatar back the Lightning now that they're doing well this season.

That's your idea of a rebuild. What he actually said was he's been waiting for a full-scale rebuild/and or regime change since getting stomped by Nashville.

I'm sure Lidstrom knew when he retired after that series the window was closed. The organization knew as well. What's pathetic to believing fans is that, as Devellano admitted, the Wings for years have employed "patches" to cover the team's holes just to make the playoffs.

The season after Nashville (2012-13 ) the wheels were truly falling off. I still believe making it past the 1st round was meaningless if not almost harmful by feeding Holland's delusions. Arguably the greatest D ever leaves along with Brad Stuart and their minutes were chosen to be filled by Lashoff, Kindl, Smith, Quincey, and White. Kronwall was very good but Ericsson was never a real #2.

Detroit let their 2nd highest scorer (Hudler) walk, instead signed Tootoo and gambled on a total nobody, Brunner. Samuellson was a ridiculously bad pick-up. Rehashing the same tired depth guys- Cleary, Miller, Andersson, Emmerton, etc. Terrible player valuation and the downward spiral from a loss of talent just continued. In hindsight it's clear that Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar were overrated and I think that also led to other poor decisions from the FO.

I don't know if the Wings were that dumb or content to settle but Holland made zero winning moves after Nick left. If anything he should have looked immediately at trading Franzen or Filppula to address the defense. It's crazy so many fans have bemoaned our D situation the last 5 years and nothing satisfactory has been done.