RD Artyom Levshunov - Michigan State Univ., NCAA (2024 Draft)

[95snipes]

How about production? Does generational production mean anything?

The production is good to be sure, but the question is more are the tools and style translatable to similar success at the NHL level. In my mind, that answer is no for the reasons outlined below. I can see him flirting with 60 in his best years with the right usage, but far from a slam dunk.

It means coaches and media that follow the play night in and out considered him the best performing defenseman in the confernece.

yes you have, I see you post clips that would suggest he's a trainwreck is his own end. His results this year suggest that this is not the case, unless you are prepared to defend a belief that he has either been insanely lucky or his teammates are elite at covering up his weaknesses, both of which are not commonly held opinions.

That's fine but it bears acknowledgment that your opinion is an extreme minority from Big Ten Hockey people and people that "rate" draft prospects. My issue is it's been bordering on "agenda" for a while and I have a feeling you formed an early impression and are getting a bit of tunnel vision. This is very common when people look at prospects.

Ok wow, let's take a step back here. I have nothing against Levshunov personally (don't know the guy so no 'agenda') and hope he has a good career and proves me wrong. I'm not 'in his corner' so to speak, but the more talent in the NHL, the better for the sport. Hopefully he wins a norris trophy one day and in his speech says '95snipes is moron'. At the same time, people have 'rated' plenty of prospects highly before that did not have successful careers.

For me, I've been watching the USHL and NCAA pretty closely this year. I've easily cleared 100 games already and that's before USHL playoffs and U18s. I'm going to put out a ranking which people can read or ignore and Levshunov won't be higher than 6th. Most likely he'll be 6th. The reason I post a lot in this thread is that he is a polarizing prospect and I see someone with a ton of red flags. So when I identify that, I post it. You can disagree, but I am offering an opinion and defending it with the film/clips you reference.

My take on Levshunov is he has the athletic tools to be good. Top pairing good. He's 6'2 and built like a tank. He can skate. Not an elite skater, but certainly above average. He's pretty quick when he moves his feet. Has good top speed. You can see when activates and joins the rush, he can wheel. He's got a heavy shot and can snap the puck. He can be physical. Not necessarily his game, but he's capable and can hit hard when he chooses to. All of the tools you want to be a high end defenseman.

Now the issue is everything else. The positioning has gotten better from early season, but there are still 3 big issues for me:

• The glaring issue is his compete and yes this is still an issue. For someone his size, he loses lots of board battles. Has a really tendency of lapses and lackadaisical play. D zone coverage is still a concern as well.
• The puck management is a big red flag for me. This is the main reason I'm not high on him. Under duress, he has a really tendency to 'throw' the puck to a teammate in a poor position or a turnover. This happens many times a game, every game. Careless stuff. I'm really looking for composure in prospects and if they make their teammates better and put them in good spots. Levshunov does not do that. His passes are also often not clean, not on the tape.
• I don't like his hockey sense. He struggles with his reads. He struggles to anticipate. He can play on your powerplay, but not an ideal 1st unit powerplay qb. I don't believe the instincts are there to be a big point producer. Meaning 70+ point defenseman. I don't see that.

Now he's pretty good at recovering from mistakes at the NCAA level due to his size and skating. He can get away with a lot. That gap really narrows though against the world's best.

So I see him as a bet on tools. And depending on a) your franchise's current direction and b) how deep your pool is, would determine where a team would/should have them on their board. Can he be worth 2nd overall? Potentially. The tools are there. Will he be when look back 5 years from now? No, I don't believe so. I see something like Bouchard/Sergachev as a good case with a floor much lower. Like I said, whoever drafts him, would be wise to slow play it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ok wow, let's take a step back here. I have nothing against Levshunov personally (don't know the guy so no 'agenda') and hope he has a good career and proves me wrong.

My apologies for the personal accusation like that. I was out of line on that one and possibly doing what I accuse others of because I'm high on the prospect's ability if he cleans up some of the mistakes (which I think are often a combo of age/not playing high level N.A. hockey very long, and I believe has improved over the course of the season). Thanks for the write up.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The production is good to be sure, but the question is more are the tools and style translatable to similar success at the NHL level. In my mind, that answer is no for the reasons outlined below. I can see him flirting with 60 in his best years with the right usage, but far from a slam dunk.

Ok wow, let's take a step back here. I have nothing against Levshunov personally (don't know the guy so no 'agenda') and hope he has a good career and proves me wrong. I'm not 'in his corner' so to speak, but the more talent in the NHL, the better for the sport. Hopefully he wins a norris trophy one day and in his speech says '95snipes is moron'. At the same time, people have 'rated' plenty of prospects highly before that did not have successful careers.

For me, I've been watching the USHL and NCAA pretty closely this year. I've easily cleared 100 games already and that's before USHL playoffs and U18s. I'm going to put out a ranking which people can read or ignore and Levshunov won't be higher than 6th. Most likely he'll be 6th. The reason I post a lot in this thread is that he is a polarizing prospect and I see someone with a ton of red flags. So when I identify that, I post it. You can disagree, but I am offering an opinion and defending it with the film/clips you reference.

My take on Levshunov is he has the athletic tools to be good. Top pairing good. He's 6'2 and built like a tank. He can skate. Not an elite skater, but certainly above average. He's pretty quick when he moves his feet. Has good top speed. You can see when activates and joins the rush, he can wheel. He's got a heavy shot and can snap the puck. He can be physical. Not necessarily his game, but he's capable and can hit hard when he chooses to. All of the tools you want to be a high end defenseman.

Now the issue is everything else. The positioning has gotten better from early season, but there are still 3 big issues for me:

• The glaring issue is his compete and yes this is still an issue. For someone his size, he loses lots of board battles. Has a really tendency of lapses and lackadaisical play. D zone coverage is still a concern as well.
• The puck management is a big red flag for me. This is the main reason I'm not high on him. Under duress, he has a really tendency to 'throw' the puck to a teammate in a poor position or a turnover. This happens many times a game, every game. Careless stuff. I'm really looking for composure in prospects and if they make their teammates better and put them in good spots. Levshunov does not do that. His passes are also often not clean, not on the tape.
• I don't like his hockey sense. He struggles with his reads. He struggles to anticipate. He can play on your powerplay, but not an ideal 1st unit powerplay qb. I don't believe the instincts are there to be a big point producer. Meaning 70+ point defenseman. I don't see that.

Now he's pretty good at recovering from mistakes at the NCAA level due to his size and skating. He can get away with a lot. That gap really narrows though against the world's best.

So I see him as a bet on tools. And depending on a) your franchise's current direction and b) how deep your pool is, would determine where a team would/should have them on their board. Can he be worth 2nd overall? Potentially. The tools are there. Will he be when look back 5 years from now? No, I don't believe so. I see something like Bouchard/Sergachev as a good case with a floor much lower. Like I said, whoever drafts him, would be wise to slow play it.

I take your argument at face value, but let’s be real about some of the others.

Silayev is mostly about measuables. He’s 6’7 and skates decently for his size, but not good for any size, and he’s had many notable struggles offensively and defensively this season. His production and minutes have went down as the season has went on.

Buium has no special skills. He was thought of as a fringe first rounder going into the season and then put up amazing totals for a Denver team that plays a weak schedule and always sees their best players have inflated point totals.

Parekh has no special skills either, although he’s a very good offensive defenseman. But he’s from the DeAngelo, Murphy, Merkley tree, not the Makar or Hughes tree. He plays in a system that asks him to activate for offense at the expense of defense.

There’s nothing wrong with recognizing Levshunov has areas he needs to improve, but being intrigued with his production and tools. He wouldn’t be the only one that would be drafted high for those types of reasons.

 

[Faceboner]

I do think the Bogosian vibe that was previously brought up is pretty apt. Both physical specimens in their draft season who excelled a lot on the backs of their athleticism, but had real concerns about how much of their apparent upside was skills versus physical advantages.

Similar to Bogosian, I think Levshunov's potential is very high, but the delta on his ceiling vs floor is pretty drastic for a guy who's going to go very high. Hopefully he doesn't deal with all the injuries that Bogosian had.

A slow and steady development path to iron out his kinks just because he is putting up elite production doesn't mean he has more to learn in the ncaa

 

[William H Bonney]

A slow and steady development path to iron out his kinks just because he is putting up elite production doesn't mean he has more to learn in the ncaa

Where did I say that?

 

[Faceboner]

Where did I say that?

You didn't just piggybacking off your comment

 

[William H Bonney]

You didn't just piggybacking off your comment

Tread carefully, I have a bad back

 

[rt]

I take your argument at face value, but let’s be real about some of the others.

Silayev is mostly about measuables. He’s 6’7 and skates decently for his size, but not good for any size, and he’s had many notable struggles offensively and defensively this season. His production and minutes have went down as the season has went on.

Buium has no special skills. He was thought of as a fringe first rounder going into the season and then put up amazing totals for a Denver team that plays a weak schedule and always sees their best players have inflated point totals.

Parekh has no special skills either, although he’s a very good offensive defenseman. But he’s from the DeAngelo, Murphy, Merkley tree, not the Makar or Hughes tree. He plays in a system that asks him to activate for offense at the expense of defense.

There’s nothing wrong with recognizing Levshunov has areas he needs to improve, but being intrigued with his production and tools. He wouldn’t be the only one that would be drafted high for those types of reasons.

Disagree with almost every opinion you’ve expressed here.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Disagree with almost every opinion you’ve expressed here.

The divergence in opinion about these players is what makes these debates meaningful. Not as fun when everyone is agreeing about everything.

 

[rt]

The divergence in opinion about these players is what makes these debates meaningful. Not as fun when everyone is agreeing about everything.

I agree.

 

[Faceboner]

Tread carefully, I have a bad back

Will do thanks for the heads up lol

 

[95snipes]

I take your argument at face value, but let’s be real about some of the others.

Silayev is mostly about measuables. He’s 6’7 and skates decently for his size, but not good for any size, and he’s had many notable struggles offensively and defensively this season. His production and minutes have went down as the season has went on.

Buium has no special skills. He was thought of as a fringe first rounder going into the season and then put up amazing totals for a Denver team that plays a weak schedule and always sees their best players have inflated point totals.

Parekh has no special skills either, although he’s a very good offensive defenseman. But he’s from the DeAngelo, Murphy, Merkley tree, not the Makar or Hughes tree. He plays in a system that asks him to activate for offense at the expense of defense.

There’s nothing wrong with recognizing Levshunov has areas he needs to improve, but being intrigued with his production and tools. He wouldn’t be the only one that would be drafted high for those types of reasons.

I've never seen Silayev play so no comment there.

Buium, depends on how lose we are being with the term special. Best in the NHL qualities no, I'd agree, but his hands and sense project well. I also disagree on the NCHC, but we could take that argument elsewhere.

Parekh I've only seen at the hlinka. My gut feeling is he is going to be very good, but it's nothing more than that.

None of these players have anything to do with Levshunov though. I think Lev has weaknesses that hold him back from stardom, others think he can overcome them. How that plays out is to be determined.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I've never seen Silayev play so no comment there.

Buium, depends on how lose we are being with the term special. Best in the NHL qualities no, I'd agree, but his hands and sense project well. I also disagree on the NCHC, but we could take that argument elsewhere.

Parekh I've only seen at the hlinka. My gut feeling is he is going to be very good, but it's nothing more than that.

None of these players have anything to do with Levshunov though. I think Lev has weaknesses that hold him back from stardom, others think he can overcome them. How that plays out is to be determined.

Definitely have to watch them ... I am not sure what this "nothing special" thing is about.. But if you watch Parekh a few games now (vs Hlinka where he was not as good) and come away going there is nothing special I'd be very surprised... Never heard or had an argument on whether a prospect was special or not but if that's the gauge .. Parekh has it in spades. That was my initial reaction when I started watching more closely this winter and I watched him several times and that hasn't changed .. he can wow you how quick he can process and execute.

I agree with your take on Levshunov. Lots of projection there to see that #1D in the NHL.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Definitely have to watch them ... I am not sure what this "nothing special" thing is about.. But if you watch Parekh a few games now (vs Hlinka where he was not as good) and come away going there is nothing special I'd be very surprised... Never heard or had an argument on whether a prospect was special or not but if that's the gauge .. Parekh has it in spades. That was my initial reaction when I started watching more closely this winter and I watched him several times and that hasn't changed .. he can wow you how quick he can process and execute.

I agree with your take on Levshunov. Lots of projection there to see that #1D in the NHL.

You could’ve quoted my post, you know?

Parekh is the Merkley, Murphy, DeAngelo of this draft. He even has some of the disciplinary problems that plagued Merkley and DeAngelo.

Parekh is not a Karlsson or Hughes or Makar. If you think he is, you’re picking him first or second. You hope to get DeAngelo (48 points per 82 with below average defense) as opposed to Merkley and Murphy, but you can’t know yet which one he’ll be.

 

[majormajor]

You could’ve quoted my post, you know?

Parekh is the Merkley, Murphy, DeAngelo of this draft. He even has some of the disciplinary problems that plagued Merkley and DeAngelo.

Parekh is not a Karlsson or Hughes or Makar. If you think he is, you’re picking him first or second. You hope to get DeAngelo (48 points per 82 with below average defense) as opposed to Merkley and Murphy, but you can’t know yet which one he’ll be.

I think Parekh's offensive zone gifts are closer to Erik Karlsson than any of DeAngelo, Merkley, or Murphy. He processes faster. Great shot, beautiful passing, unusual but very elusive skating.

But I bet you there are clubs that will see his defense and his offense together and think this might be 2023 Erik Karlsson, and they still won't touch him. Teams have strong ideas about how they want to construct their D groups, not all of them are open to having huge defensive liabilities back there.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think Parekh's offensive zone gifts are closer to Erik Karlsson than any of DeAngelo, Merkley, or Murphy. He processes faster. Great shot, beautiful passing, unusual but very elusive skating.

But I bet you there are clubs that will see his defense and his offense together and think this might be 2023 Erik Karlsson, and they still won't touch him. Teams have strong ideas about how they want to construct their D groups, not all of them are open to having huge defensive liabilities back there.

How do you rank the D widely thought to be in the top 10-12 by their current defensive strengths.

I think Silayev is at the top defensively , arguably followed not so closely by Dickinson

I see all of Levshunov, Buium, Parekh, and Yakemchuk being where they are in the draft rankings based very largely because of their offense which is fine and their defensive side is based on projecting them to develop and improve that aspect. The bigger guys will be given some leeway.

 

[majormajor]

How do you rank the D widely thought to be in the top 10-12 by their current defensive strengths.

I think Silayev is at the top defensively , arguably followed not so closely by Dickinson

I see all of Levshunov, Buium, Parekh, and Yakemchuk being where they are in the draft rankings based very largely because of their offense which is fine and their defensive side is based on projecting them to develop and improve that aspect. The bigger guys will be given some leeway.

Obviously Silayev is amazing at it.

You said based on current defensive strengths... I think Buium is getting underrated there, I'm watching him in the playoffs up against great college teams and he looks solid defensively. The reads are good, he has the technique for boxing out, and has gifts for getting the puck out of trouble.

I don't think Dickinson would look as good defensively if you had put him in the NCAA this year. He's not that polished in the OHL. But he's a June birthday and he's 6'3 and a beautiful skater, can escape the zone with ease. I think you should project him to be better defensively long term than Buium.

Levshunov has all the defensive attributes, he's currently playing a lot of "rover" and needs a lot more training. He's a late developer and some of that will come along. But these mental disconnection moments he has might be a permanent thing. There are a lot of talented D in the NHL who will space out from time to time - Chabot, Provorov, etc... and it does limit their effectiveness.

Yakemchuk is a mess defensively but he can hold his ground and win a battle at times. I don't know how much teaching has been put into his game. It's a big question I'd have, is he untrained or just not a good learner? Anyways, I see a lot of Brent Burns with him, where there are a lot of mistakes but the strength, reach, and mobility is so good that he can still be difficult to play against. He'll have to learn a ton though.

Parekh is also a mess defensively but I'm seeing things that are harder to fix with him. I wonder how he is ever going to win his battles. It's not just about the technique he has to learn. He doesn't have athletic posture, naturally standing very high on his skates, so opponents can skate right through him. So even assuming he learns how to gap up properly, pivots, proper stick checking, tying up sticks, etc... he's still going to have major limitations.


So current defensive strengths:

Silayev
Buium
Dickinson (but better than Buium long term)
Levshunov
Yakemchuk
Parekh

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Obviously Silayev is amazing at it.

You said based on current defensive strengths... I think Buium is getting underrated there, I'm watching him in the playoffs up against great college teams and he looks solid defensively. The reads are good, he has the technique for boxing out, and has gifts for getting the puck out of trouble.

I don't think Dickinson would look as good defensively if you had put him in the NCAA this year. He's not that polished in the OHL. But he's a June birthday and he's 6'3 and a beautiful skater, can escape the zone with ease. I think you should project him to be better defensively long term than Buium.

Levshunov has all the defensive attributes, he's currently playing a lot of "rover" and needs a lot more training. He's a late developer and some of that will come along. But these mental disconnection moments he has might be a permanent thing. There are a lot of talented D in the NHL who will space out from time to time - Chabot, Provorov, etc... and it does limit their effectiveness.

Yakemchuk is a mess defensively but he can hold his ground and win a battle at times. I don't know how much teaching has been put into his game. It's a big question I'd have, is he untrained or just not a good learner? Anyways, I see a lot of Brent Burns with him, where there are a lot of mistakes but the strength, reach, and mobility is so good that he can still be difficult to play against. He'll have to learn a ton though.

Parekh is also a mess defensively but I'm seeing things that are harder to fix with him. I wonder how he is ever going to win his battles. It's not just about the technique he has to learn. He doesn't have athletic posture, naturally standing very high on his skates, so opponents can skate right through him. So even assuming he learns how to gap up properly, pivots, proper stick checking, tying up sticks, etc... he's still going to have major limitations.


So current defensive strengths:

Silayev
Buium
Dickinson (but better than Buium long term)
Levshunov
Yakemchuk
Parekh

Awesome Thanks. Well done.

 

[TLEH]

Levshunov has so many tools but every time I watch him I always want more. The compete comes and goes. The decision making is improved from when I watched him at the beginning of the year, but still is inconsistent. Idk man. I'd rather roll with a few other guys in the Top 5. I understand falling in love with what he could be but I have major ?s.

 

[rt]

How do you rank the D widely thought to be in the top 10-12 by their current defensive strengths.

I think Silayev is at the top defensively , arguably followed not so closely by Dickinson

I see all of Levshunov, Buium, Parekh, and Yakemchuk being where they are in the draft rankings based very largely because of their offense which is fine and their defensive side is based on projecting them to develop and improve that aspect. The bigger guys will be given some leeway.

Defending
1-Silayev
2-Dickinson
3-Yakemchuk
4-Levshunov
5-Buium
6-Parekh

Physical Play
1-Silayev
2-Yakemchuk
3-Levshunov
4-Buium
5-Dickinson
6-Parekh

 

[rt]

Obviously Silayev is amazing at it.

You said based on current defensive strengths... I think Buium is getting underrated there, I'm watching him in the playoffs up against great college teams and he looks solid defensively. The reads are good, he has the technique for boxing out, and has gifts for getting the puck out of trouble.

I don't think Dickinson would look as good defensively if you had put him in the NCAA this year. He's not that polished in the OHL. But he's a June birthday and he's 6'3 and a beautiful skater, can escape the zone with ease. I think you should project him to be better defensively long term than Buium.

Levshunov has all the defensive attributes, he's currently playing a lot of "rover" and needs a lot more training. He's a late developer and some of that will come along. But these mental disconnection moments he has might be a permanent thing. There are a lot of talented D in the NHL who will space out from time to time - Chabot, Provorov, etc... and it does limit their effectiveness.

Yakemchuk is a mess defensively but he can hold his ground and win a battle at times. I don't know how much teaching has been put into his game. It's a big question I'd have, is he untrained or just not a good learner? Anyways, I see a lot of Brent Burns with him, where there are a lot of mistakes but the strength, reach, and mobility is so good that he can still be difficult to play against. He'll have to learn a ton though.

Parekh is also a mess defensively but I'm seeing things that are harder to fix with him. I wonder how he is ever going to win his battles. It's not just about the technique he has to learn. He doesn't have athletic posture, naturally standing very high on his skates, so opponents can skate right through him. So even assuming he learns how to gap up properly, pivots, proper stick checking, tying up sticks, etc... he's still going to have major limitations.


So current defensive strengths:

Silayev
Buium
Dickinson (but better than Buium long term)
Levshunov
Yakemchuk
Parekh

It’s a good case you make Yakemchuk vs Buium. I think Silayev is clear #1 for me. Dickinson is my number two. Then I think Yakemchuk, Buium, and Levshunov are kind of interchangeable for me for different reasons. Levshunov for consistency issues is hard to rank. He’s all over the map. Yakemchuk has issues, too, but he’s mean as piss and I like him better in his own corner and in 50/50s. Buium is smartest of the three and is pretty strong and pretty consistent. I could see ranking these three in any order depending on which games you saw and what you value.

 

[ryan callahan]

I take your argument at face value, but let’s be real about some of the others.

Silayev is mostly about measuables. He’s 6’7 and skates decently for his size, but not good for any size, and he’s had many notable struggles offensively and defensively this season. His production and minutes have went down as the season has went on.

Buium has no special skills. He was thought of as a fringe first rounder going into the season and then put up amazing totals for a Denver team that plays a weak schedule and always sees their best players have inflated point totals.

Parekh has no special skills either, although he’s a very good offensive defenseman. But he’s from the DeAngelo, Murphy, Merkley tree, not the Makar or Hughes tree. He plays in a system that asks him to activate for offense at the expense of defense.

There’s nothing wrong with recognizing Levshunov has areas he needs to improve, but being intrigued with his production and tools. He wouldn’t be the only one that would be drafted high for those types of reasons.

Agreed with the two first ones but you are severely underselling Parekh here. The three guys you mentionned here didn't carry a top CHL team the way Parekh just did

 

[majormajor]

It’s a good case you make Yakemchuk vs Buium. I think Silayev is clear #1 for me. Dickinson is my number two. Then I think Yakemchuk, Buium, and Levshunov are kind of interchangeable for me for different reasons. Levshunov for consistency issues is hard to rank. He’s all over the map. Yakemchuk has issues, too, but he’s mean as piss and I like him better in his own corner and in 50/50s. Buium is smartest of the three and is pretty strong and pretty consistent. I could see ranking these three in any order depending on which games you saw and what you value.

I'm inclined to take Yakemchuk top 5 in the draft, I love the upside with him. I would rank his current defensive game lower than both of the NCAA players though, he often looks worse even playing against juniors. I think he'll get a lot better at it, and I love the meanness.

Levshunov is also quite erratic defensively. I've been tuning in to Michigan State every game so far in the playoffs and he gives you a different look every period.

Buium I've seen the last four games and he's really looking polished defensively. I don't think your ranking was based on current play? If someone wants to say his defensive upside is more limited because he's only 6'0, that I can understand a little more easily. Though If I was ranking long term I'd still bet on his defense ahead of Lev and Yak.

 

[Blue Chip Prospect]

Just got that out ! Hope you guys like it.

 

[UpsideHockey]

Direct link to profile: bit.ly/artyomlevshunov