Ranking the Leafs Assets #1

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,679
10,740
Rielly easily IMO

Thing is the top 3 are being called elite. We are looking at drafting one of those 3 as of right now. Rielly is looking like a star but its only just early. Small sample so if you ask me at the End of season and let's just pretend he puts up 50pts and looks complete/dominant vs we pull 1st OA... I am taking 1st OA but that being said I am absolutely not trading Rielly either.
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
43,000
9,192
In this order...

Nylander
Rielly
Marner
Kadri
JVR
Gardiner
2016 1st

Gardiner ahead of the 1st?

If you were forced to trade Gardiner or the 1st for the same asset(say Ehlers for example), you would trade the 1st for Ehlers before you'd trade Gardiner for Ehlers?
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
Gardiner ahead of the 1st?

If you were forced to trade Gardiner or the 1st for the same asset(say Ehlers for example), you would trade the 1st for Ehlers before you'd trade Gardiner for Ehlers?

Its still a top 10 leafs asset to be sure, but its still an unknown. Wouldn't trade it for the world, though.:)
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
43,000
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Its still a top 10 leafs asset to be sure, but its still an unknown. Wouldn't trade it for the world, though.:)

didn't really answer the question though. I don't understand how you have Gardiner more valuable that the pick. Pretty much anyone we'd pick in the top 5, potentially top 10 would have more value than Gardiner.

I mean I like Gardiner and think he can be a useful part to this team long term, but if someone else owned the Leafs pick and I could get it back by trading Gardiner, then hell yes see ya later Gardiner.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
didn't really answer the question though. I don't understand how you have Gardiner more valuable that the pick. Pretty much anyone we'd pick in the top 5, potentially top 10 would have more value than Gardiner.

I mean I like Gardiner and think he can be a useful part to this team long term, but if someone else owned the Leafs pick and I could get it back by trading Gardiner, then hell yes see ya later Gardiner.

Which I feel is part of the Toronto "undervalue our own player" curse that we've been oh so accustomed to seeing.

Gards is worth more than just a middle-high first given given his ability to drive possession as a D man in the NHL.

There's absolutely no need to give that pick a higher value than the players listed, IMO.
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
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I'd wager to guess that's you'd be the only Leafs fan here to pick Gardiner ahead of the 1st. No offense, and I get that picks are often overvalued on here, but whoever we end up picking it's likely going to be in or near the top 5 and suddenly jump up on your list like Marner did.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario

Wow, I had a good answer planned and everything.

Ask me again at the trade deadline when we're closer to actually knowing what that pick might yield.

Right now its a complete unknown so whether its the popular position or not, I don't place more value on it than the current players mentioned. Especially because I have had faith that our season will end up looking a lot closer to the Marlies season last year than a bottom five pick.
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
43,000
9,192
The way I look at it is what is the average value of the guy we might obtain from that pick.

This is going to be a very mathematical post but that's the kind of person I am.

Lets assign a numerical value to different things, from a scale from 1 to 100.

Rielly - 80
Nylander - 70
Marner - 65
Gardiner - 55

1st overall(Matthews) - 90
2nd(Chychrun) - 70
3rd - 65
4th - 60
5th - 58
6th - 56
7th - 54
8th - 53
9th - 52
10th - 51
11th - 50
12th - 49
13th - 48
14th or below - 45(it's quite unrealistic our pick would be much worst that that, we'd need to make the playoffs)

Now lets take a guess at rough probabilities that we end up with each pick

1st - 10%
2nd - 10%
3rd - 10%
4th - 20%
5th - 15%
6th - 10%
7th - 7%
8th - 5%
9th - 4%
10th - 3%
11th - 2%
12th - 2%
13th - 1%
14th or lower - 1%

Now you probably disagree on some of these values or odds, which is fair, but this is how I value them.

To calculate the average value of our pick given all these possibilities and values, not gonna post all the math here, just the answer. I suspect most know how to do this, just multiply the value of the pick by the decimal odds we pick there(90 x 0.1 for 1st overall for example) and add them together

Which puts the average value of our pick at 61.75. Less than Rielly, Nylander and Marner, but more than Gardiner(and other players I didn't list)

I feel like some people go too far 1 way and say look that pick might be Matthews with a value of 90, it's the most valuable thing we have because it could end up as Matthews who has more value than anything we have.

I think TLeafsFan is going too far the other way, it could end up 7th or lower which all has less value than Gardiner(based on my made up values in my chart), and that's absolutely true, it could. But based on all the scenarios possible and all the values of those scenarios it's more likely than the picks value turns out to be more than Gardiner(and Kadri, and JVR who's I'd both likely have at 60's, etc, etc)

But yeah there's my long drawn out explanation of how I value things in my head. When they have an unknown value like I pick I think how the average value it would have in all possibilities.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Skövde, Sweden
Nice post, C4G. The only factor I think you are missing is this:

While the average value would be 61.75, the simple chance of getting such a rare asset as a 90 means that there is some extra value to the pick.

It's like picks in general. Most of them will not become something, and the average player is not much to have. But it's in the small chance of getting a homerun that isn't available otherwise that gives it value.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,679
10,740
At the end of the day the way it looks we have a reasonably good shot at 1oa. At that point we are not trading anyone anyways. We have team needs. Marner, Nylander are needed and so is that 1st. Rielly is 1st because we are seeing now, what we hope to see from the others down the line.
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
5,592
413
Rielly > Nylander/Marner (pretty much tied)> 2016 first.

Yes we suck and all, but we could finish 5th and worst case draft 8th or 1st and draft 4th, I hope people realize that's how unpredictable this year's lottery is.
 
Last edited:

HellasLEAF

'93 to Infinity
Sep 14, 2006
15,345
1,800
1. Rielly
2. Nylander
3. Marner
4. Dermott
5. Gardiner
6. JVR
7. Kadri
8. Brown
9. Leipsic
10. Kapanen
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
5,592
413
1. Rielly
2. Nylander
3. Marner
4. Dermott
5. Gardiner
6. JVR
7. Kadri
8. Brown
9. Leipsic
10. Kapanen

Personally put JVR/Kadri ahead of Gardiner at this point, but what's the rational behind Dermott? He looks like a solid prospect but it's so hard to project a player like him.
 

KGL

Auston 3:16
Sep 5, 2014
7,499
9
Before the season started I had Marner and Nylander as #1 and #2 with Rielly as #3. But after how Rielly has played so far, he's taken such a step foward, he's been incredible. No choice now but to have him as #1.
 

dballislife2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2011
1,437
0
rielly is gonna be so so good...nylander and marner are elite assets as well

yet if we add matthews hes no question our number 1 asset

thats why the tank is so so so very important this season...go tank
 

cookie

Fresh From The Oven
Nov 24, 2009
6,922
1,425
Oven then stomach
1. Rielly
2. Nylander
3. Marner
4. Dermott
5. Gardiner
6. JVR
7. Kadri
8. Brown
9. Leipsic
10. Kapanen

That's an interesting take but do you remember the Percy hype? I think the new Percy is Dermott. I personally wouldn't rank him higher than Gardiner, even after the seasons he's putting up, but rather below the AHL guys.

Before the season started I had Marner and Nylander as #1 and #2 with Rielly as #3. But after how Rielly has played so far, he's taken such a step foward, he's been incredible. No choice now but to have him as #1.

Well it's called drafting and development for a reason. Rielly's development has been on point and his tireless work ethic and mental state are just as important to his improvement as his physical gifts are. I'm hoping to see these kinds of breakthroughs with Nylander, Marner and the 2016 1sts.
 

BayStreetBully

Registered User
Oct 25, 2007
8,200
1,961
Toronto
Rielly
Marner
Nylander
2016 1st

or

Rielly
Marner
2016 1st
Nylander

All very valuable. It's not 1-2-3-4, but rather 1A, 1B, 1C and 1D.
 

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