Pre-Game Talk: Rangers @ Wild

[haveandare]

That's the point, it's impossible to skip. If you had kept it in the Glass thread, I'd just skip that thread. But Glass hate is in every thread and people obviously get off on it, getting some sort of sick pleasure from hating him because it's like waking up a barking dog for someone to mention the name Glass. Suddenly a dozen people start yelling the same thing over and over again in the same thread. You literally have the same person posting the same thing within a few hours in the same thread.

The only way I know that I didn't want to read a post is if I already read it. I can't avoid it. Every Pre-Game, GDT, Post-Game, transaction, stats, etc thread is in large part about Glass. Apparently there is nothing else to talk about when it comes to hockey.




It's NOTHING like it.

For one, it's mostly been kept in the Talbot and Lundqvist thread, spilling out elsewhere only on a limited basis. Here, it's in every freakin' thread.

Two, when it comes to Lundqvist/Talbot, it was a long discussion for only a few days, but otherwise just a post here and a post there. With Glass, we have pages upon pages upon pages of the same exact statement that Glass is the worst hockey player ever and AV is blind.

Three, with Talbot/Lundqvist, it was only for a short time while Lundqvist was out. With Glass, a few people went nuts in July and it simply has not stopped since. Every day, it's the same statement repeated at least a few dozen times: Glass is the worst hockey player ever and AV is blind.




No, with Glass it's unprecedented. The only thing that even resembles it is McIlrath hate, but even that is far, far more limited.

I really get what you're saying here, but the problem is that talking about Glass in multiple threads is in fact relevant because the decision making on playing him effects an awful lot of things about this team.

Tonight, they can clinch the division. MSL is back. Glass is playing, Sheppard is scratched. Is it annoying to hear about how terrible of a call that is? Maybe. Is it relevant to tonight's game though? Absolutely.

In a thread about the playoffs, again, this team got gutted by an effective NJD fourth line in their second best postseason in years. They also struggled against an effective OTT fourth line. This year, the NYI fourth line has given them headaches. We know the power of rolling four good lines, and we're looking at starting the playoffs with three effective lines. We know how important players like Moore are, and we know that he plays worse with Glass than he plays shorthanded. Again, annoying to hear about? Sure. Relevant? You bet.

As annoying is it may be to hear about it, as someone who writes about it fairly often, it's just as annoying to me to see the team constantly handicap itself. We all spend a lot of time and energy following this team and investing in their successes and failures. We all want them to win. We all know that the window is open now, and it's not going to be open forever. Seeing this poor decision made again and again frustrates me as much as anything about a sport that I'm a fan of can possible frustrate me. Venting about it and hearing that others are also frustrated by it takes the edge off a little bit. It's a sport, and we should all keep it in perspective, but as much as it can matter, this fact about this team matters.

 

[Off Sides]

I heard Glass was playing tonight.


I know it's annoying and there are lots of posts about it, but when something just does not make any sense to the vast majority of the fan base of course it's going to come up all the time.



The game tonight, I hope what what my thoughts are is way off.

 

[aufheben]

Loffen pls respond.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Adam Herman is the absolute worst.

I find his tweets pretty insightful, even if I don't agree with some of his conclusions.

What does bother me is his condescension towards those who don't 100% agree with him.

Many of his tweets are basically commentary on what he reads on these boards.

 

[Miamipuck]

Beacon: Haveandare said it better than I did, without sarcasm.

 

[haveandare]

I find his tweets pretty insightful, even if I don't agree with some of his conclusions.

What does bother me is his condescension towards those who don't 100% agree with him.

Many of his tweets are basically commentary on what he reads on these boards.

This is the main (admittedly generalized) knock on the advanced stats community as a whole. If you don't agree with their conclusions, you're an idiot living in the past to many people. It's a cycle. People propose interesting, sometimes controversial findings based on stats that many don't fully understand, parts of the audience question the conclusions, then rather than addressing those questions, people mock those who don't buy what they're selling immediately, further alienating those who could have come around with a little bit of support.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

Loffen GDT or we riot

 

[Raspewtin]

This is the main (admittedly generalized) knock on the advanced stats community as a whole. If you don't agree with their conclusions, you're an idiot living in the past to many people. It's a cycle. People propose interesting, sometimes controversial findings based on stats that many don't fully understand, parts of the audience question the conclusions, then rather than addressing those questions, people mock those who don't buy what they're selling immediately, further alienating those who could have come around with a little bit of support.

Those responses, 9/10 times, are directly because of the villanization and crucifixion of the people who are fans of the stats. Then it becomes a pissing match between the two sides, like friggin West Side Story. No we're right! No, we're right!. We must fight because we can't both be right!

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I mean, they still have a point though. Its not like people just see "oh, stats are bad, so we're bad", no. The stats, like it or not, have confirmed how they've played all year. They don't sustain forechecks and have a really hard time breaking opposing forechecks up. That's not a recipe for success.



I have serious doubts past the first round with them. I don't think they're first round fodder, no.

But I really liked how they were playing right before Klein got injured so...

I agree those are the issues with the Rangers, they have a hard time against teams that take their time away by forechecking hard and the Rangers are not great at sustaining a forecheck themselves. Bread and butter is the rush.

I guess my main problem is the people I'm talking about are beyond smug about their thoughts and seem to believe the numbers don't lie. I enjoy following them because I love seeing the advanced stats and such but the complaining has reaches insane levels.

And my confidence in the team is not as high as the record would normally say it should be, so I'm with you on that. I also don't think they're first round fodder either and also liked how the team was chugging along before Klein's injury.

I enjoy your posts here because you come at it with a heavy stats influence, but you also acknowledge other aspects of analyzing performance and clearly know the game. Plus you're not arrogant about your opinions.

It's not Adam Herman btw, I like him a lot on twitter. Good mix of stats and also insight and his analysis is usually spot on and he clearly has his logic.

The people I'm talking about are far far worse than him. You can usually find them responding to him though.

 

[Ail]

loffen gdt or we riot

୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨ now we riot ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨

 

[haveandare]

Those responses, 9/10 times, are directly because of the villanization and crucifixion of the people who are fans of the stats. Then it becomes a pissing match between the two sides, like friggin West Side Story. No we're right! No, we're right!. We must fight because we can't both be right!

This is often times true as well. I'm not talking about the people on our board, honestly. Those around here who argue with stats are generally very understanding of those (like me) who aren't necessarily number people and will gladly explain something when asked politely. Yes, sometimes people rag on them baselessly and the conversation degrades.

But certain bloggers, certain twitter folks, certain people on other forums do tend to avoid any further explanation and go straight to demeaning those who don't get the stats right away. To a degree, I'd imagine it's part of getting clicks and ultimately, in that regard, it's better to be hated than to be unknown.

 

[Raspewtin]

This is often times true as well. I'm not talking about the people on our board, honestly. Those around here who argue with stats are generally very understanding of those (like me) who aren't necessarily number people and will gladly explain something when asked politely. Yes, sometimes people rag on them baselessly and the conversation degrades.

But certain bloggers, certain twitter folks, certain people on other forums do tend to avoid any further explanation and go straight to demeaning those who don't get the stats right away. To a degree, I'd imagine it's part of getting clicks and ultimately, in that regard, it's better to be hated than to be unknown.

But you can just ignore them. It's not like they're on this board and you have to scroll past what they say. Just unfollow them and you won't see them anymore.

 

[haveandare]

But you can just ignore them. It's not like they're on this board and you have to scroll past what they say. Just unfollow them and you won't see them anymore.

Yeah, I know. The topic came up, so I was sharing my experience/feelings about it. It's not tearing me up inside or anything.

 

[Ail]

I agree those are the issues with the Rangers, they have a hard time against teams that take their time away by forechecking hard and the Rangers are not great at sustaining a forecheck themselves. Bread and butter is the rush.

I guess my main problem is the people I'm talking about are beyond smug about their thoughts and seem to believe the numbers don't lie. I enjoy following them because I love seeing the advanced stats and such but the complaining has reaches insane levels.

And my confidence in the team is not as high as the record would normally say it should be, so I'm with you on that. I also don't think they're first round fodder either and also liked how the team was chugging along before Klein's injury.

I enjoy your posts here because you come at it with a heavy stats influence, but you also acknowledge other aspects of analyzing performance and clearly know the game. Plus you're not arrogant about your opinions.

It's not Adam Herman btw, I like him a lot on twitter. Good mix of stats and also insight and his analysis is usually spot on and he clearly has his logic.

The people I'm talking about are far far worse than him. You can usually find them responding to him though.

I think the metrics people end up being smug because they are met with righteous indignation any time a stat doesn't support their own view of the team or a player. Not everyone reacts that way, but many do, because it insults their knowledge of the sport. Add on top of that the constant need for "see see I told you so" when a player or team does something contrasting the stats, and you can begin to understand the level of frustration from the perspective of a metrics advocate.

I'm guilty of being pretentious or obnoxious when it comes to these discussions, but it is not because I feel superior or smarter. I doubted the stats too at one point.