Post-Game Talk: Rangers at Hurricanes - October 28

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SnowblindNYR

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The years i've followed the Rangers, Hank usually starts quite slowly, and the first month at least is far below his average (one season if i recall, he was subpar all the way towards Christmas).

This is not meant to excuse him in any way, its just quite typical of what i remember from the last 7 or so years.

I would almost be less worried if he'd been horrible rather than mediocre. Horrible would probably mean he's in a slump, mediocre could mean this is the new normal. Because he wouldn't be horrible all season. Usually he's horrible in his slumps, now it looks like he just might be a slightly above average goalie. I hope I'm wrong.

BTW, I was going to ask if AV just favors poor puck movers unless they're pretty obviously amazing like McDonagh. I figured maybe he's old school and thinks that almost all puck movers are a defensive liability. Then I thought of McIlrath and I'm all the more confused.
 

Open Mind

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Nov 14, 2014
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This dates back to last December

You keep saying this, but are you seriously tacking last season, a completely different season, along with an off-season in between, to a handful of games this season and suggesting so early into this season that it's a concrete 'this is his game now' pattern?

I look at each season independently because all players go through ups and downs inside a season. Lundqvist has done so, more or less, his entire career and landed at season's end with solid numbers. I don't think a handful of games this season shakes that in any way.

It's possible his game is slipping... who knows? But given his propensity to start slow most seasons, and that last season where he came out strong and fizzled is not his norm, I think it's premature to assume anything.
 

Stasis

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Huge Hank fan but yeah, it's time to stop making excuses. He's not showing that he's worth nearly his salary this year. Didn't so much last year either. He maybe earned that contract for what he's done and has been but he's not that right now.

Frankly I wonder if he ever will be again. Fighting everything. Lots of rebounds. Poorly playing the puck way too frequently. Our D ain't great, I know it, but still... the evidence is there.

Looking forward to Shesty. And paying 8.5M to a backup for 4 years.
 

Chimpradamus

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So let's just ignore how the goals were created? First goal was a snipe by Skinner were Fast decided to hug Lundqvist instead of contesting the shooter. Second was a well placed backhand and backhands are always very hard to read for a goalie. It hit the perfect spot, in the corner just above the pad and underneath the glove. Third he had no chance on, extremely well placed and he saw nothing. No goal was a bad goal, maybe he could've had the first with some luck, but the other two? Nope. I don't see how he could've saved either of the last two goals, Skinner was on fire.

Lundqvist has always started slow, but I find it funny it is never mentioned the team usually plays defensive dumpster fire hockey during this time as well, usually for much longer than Lundqvist himself struggles.

AV's system killed Luongo and he hasn't exactly given Lundqvist any favours. AV creates chances, but give up alot of grade A chances as well, especially with immobile defensemen.

Lundqvist hasn't exactly shined, but the team hasn't given him a chance to shine either. Our opponents always get the time and space to shoot high with accuracy, we never do. That's the huge difference. Of course opposing goaltenders will shine when all we muster offensively is pucks along the ice, which all butterflies stop. Hence the "oh another backup looking like Hasek against us." Maybe because the team makes every opposing goalie look like Hasek with the kind of shots he thrives saving, while giving the own goalie a nightmare?

Price has great support in Montreal to make his job easier, Luongo had none in Vancouver and Lundqvist has none in New York. So yes, it's a huge waste to have Lundqvist in net in NY with the current system, you could just as well have an average goalie and expect to allow at least three goals every game, two if Lundqvist has a great game. How that is a game winning hockey concept in the game today is beyond me. If you have a $8.5m world class goalie in net and ignore that, of course it's a huge waste cap wise, tactically and strategically.

Goaltenders shine in systems like they had in Boston and have in Montreal. Let the goalie see every puck, take away the rebounds and don't give opponents time and space in the slot, which is a positional defense (I still have no idea how AV believes a man to man defense is a good idea, especially with this squad). During those circumstances, Lundqvist would have no problem to do his job and then the team wouldn't need 4-5 goals for every win.

This team will get nowhere with this tactical system, it's horrendeus. At best it'll be another first round exit in the playoffs. I only hope Lundqvist is traded, because he's a waste here, the team could play any goalie in net, as the goalie isn't part of AV's system. He just prays the goalie will save his huge systematical flaws and Luongo couldn't, neither can Lundqvist.

If AV is fired things would look alot better.
 
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Ori

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I know it`s early, but I hope and thought that this was suppose to be Fast breakthrough season, but I feel he has take some steps back compare to last season and sometimes too much puck watching instead of skating towards the shoter on pk for instance. Hopefully the coaching staff notice this and correct his play especially on pk which is important.

However something positive about Fast - he has talent for sure 4 pts on 8 games on the 4th and 3rd line is a good contribution in my opinion. Nash & Stepan has 5 pts in comparison and they have PP minutes as well.
 
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Kovalev27

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Perfectly put by Larry Brooks:

Again. Perhaps neither goal was attributable to Lundqvist, but then, the Rangers rely on the King to be a difference-maker. He has not been that through seven starts, his save percentage a plebeian .900.

Hasn't been a difference maker since November of last year. He SHOULD be playing the way he did at the start of last season to justify that contract. Otherwise any average goaltender in the league will give you a .915 sav% these days. .900? That is laughable. He's the only reason we are 5-3 instead of 8-0.
 

Fitzy

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They gave Hank a legacy contract.

We're expecting his numbers to downtick slightly over the next few years. I still think he'll finish these next few years with a Sv% around .915-.920. That includes this season.

Feel free to "hold him accountable" whatever that means. He isn't ever going to be traded or bought out, so all you can really do if he struggles is play Raanta more.
 

Kovalev27

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Even 920 is average now

Hank is WAY below that 900 is roller hockey type numbers.

We are dominating nightly there's not a team in history that doesn't give up quality chances every night other goalies make saves on them. Hank feels like everything of any sort of quality goes in the net. And like others have said even the saves look like a struggle.

He looks terrible and frankly I don't think he's looked good for a while now. How many times was he pulled last year? This is really bad news because the team is stacked and giving up very few chances.
 

NickyFotiu

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Lundys play and contract has been a fair topic but do we have a better option?
 
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chosen

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This is all on Vigneault. He retains Stempniak, this entire sequence of events wouldn't have happened. You mistreat a player like that, he'll possess the souls of ever player ever relegated due to Tanner Glass and beat our team. Stempniak is literally the Avatar and Vigneault is whatever dumb **** is on the other side.

Who would you have Stempniak replace in the current lineup?
 

GOAT AINEC

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Our defense has played way above expectations as well. Pretty sure the Rangers have given up the least amount of shots in the league.
 

silverfish

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Our defense has played way above expectations as well. Pretty sure the Rangers have given up the least amount of shots in the league.

I don't understand. Why not just verify this?

For the record, the Rangers are: (5v5)

13th best in the league in shot attempts against per 60
6th best in the league in shots on goal against per 60
14th best in the league in scoring chances against per 60
 

chosen

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Because he went on NHL.com in August, saw that he played 22-23 minutes a game for the Avs, so he assumed he is a top pair dman. That's pretty much it.

Av is just not a smart coach.

If you believe it was AV's decision to get Holden, why do the Rangers have a GM?
 

GOAT AINEC

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I don't understand. Why not just verify this?

For the record, the Rangers are: (5v5)

13th best in the league in shot attempts against per 60
6th best in the league in shots on goal against per 60
14th best in the league in scoring chances against per 60

So 6th, they were 1st at one point.

Anyway, most people probably thought they would be dead last in that category.
 

Kovalev27

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6th best with an all world goalie and a monster offense and we're sitting at 5-3. Hank needs to wake up. I would have played raanta last night and saved hank for Tampa but if this continues yikes. As bad as we were he let him softee after softee to lose that series. I see no difference now except that our team D is giving up practically nothing and he still can't make a stop.

.900 save percentage? Really?

lets not kid ourselves hank was the worst player on the team in that penguins series
 

GOAT AINEC

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6th best with an all world goalie and a monster offense and we're sitting at 5-3. Hank needs to wake up. I would have played raanta last night and saved hank for Tampa but if this continues yikes. As bad as we were he let him softee after softee to lose that series. I see no difference now except that our team D is giving up practically nothing and he still can't make a stop.

.900 save percentage? Really?

lets not kid ourselves hank was the worst player on the team in that penguins series

He's been terrible for about 3 years now, I wouldn't expect anything to change. It doesn't matter how bad he is though, he will never own up to it or get called out on it like any other goalie. Because he owns all the Rangers goalie records he can play like **** all he wants.
 

bernmeister

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First loss of the season they didn't deserve to win. Against a team that was tied for last in wins in the NHL no less

true, but Canes are building themselves slowly BUT SURELY into a powerhouse.


Fix. The. System.
By getting a real coach!

Yup


Deserved to win?????
They had practically no shots in the 3rd. They deserves to lose. And its AVs fault for playing that ******** Holden.

They need to trade Miller and whatever for Trouba. They need to. This defense is terrible.

Holden was worse than Girardi and i didnt think that was possible

Did deserve to lose
players didn't do it enough, coach is a partisan idiot as to player mgmt
we need to fix the D, but that is not the way to do it

before end of w/e if I can, will offer some bold suggestions in the trade thread
basically,

1. yield on McD + for Trouba +. but unload Staal, and further gain in the process

2. this hurts: small deal, core is Zib for Hanifin + Murphy

3. move Stepan + good players + Girardi to Sabres for Reinhart + bad contracts

4. Kovacs + Stromwall + cap dump for rental Shattenkirk, who we trust to extend after exp draft

5. Klein + Lindberg for Edm 1st [don't care if we wait a year or 2]

that will rebuild D:
Hanifin Trouba
Graves Shattenkirk
Skjei McIlrath
Gallagher Murphy

we would still have most of our key Fs
and we would be better prepared to not have the exp draft control us


Henrik should have had that second goal and maybe the first one. Third goal he had no chance. He's not playing horrible but he's also not up to his usual standards.

Girardi - Holden on the ice together in the final 2 minutes LOL.

Zibanejad hasn't looked as noticeable with Kreider out of the lineup. Thought that line was pretty quiet despite Zuccarello potting 2 goals (1 was on the PP and other a breakaway anyway).

Clendening has to play. There's just literally no one able to move it efficiently beyond McDonagh and maybe Skjei on the back end. I want to cry anytime Staal tries to make a breakout pass.

there is an obvious synergy
guys who are both really strong and at least adequately fast (Stepan is slow).
would hate to break that up
though I'd make an exception on Zib, a 5th OA, for similarly slotted Hanny, who is not only ELC cheaper and exp protected


Dylan McIlrath should still be on this team, Nick Holden took all of his icetime away.

bingo
 

silverfish

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He's been terrible for about 3 years now, I wouldn't expect anything to change. It doesn't matter how bad he is though, he will never own up to it or get called out on it like any other goalie. Because he owns all the Rangers goalie records he can play like **** all he wants.

Can you do me a solid and remind me who led the league in 5v5 save percentage last year among goalies who played 60 or more games?

Also, while you're at it, combine high danger and medium danger shots against per 60 and see which goalie has one of the toughest workloads in the league?

Don't worry, I know the answers to these questions, but I'm happy to wait for you to find them as well.
 

Kovalev27

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Remember back in the day when hank used to say "I need to be better" and then he'd come out next game and pitch a shutout or something?

Not anymore. Now it's I can't believe that went in or we should have scored more goals...followed by another below average performance. He's not even average right now these numbers are laughable.
 
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