QMJHL To ban fighting

[swoopster]

Obviously you hate Coach Laz but come on thats the future of hockey and everyone knows it. Makar and McDavid types are the future of the NHL game. The monster power forward or big defensive dman who cant skate are dying out for the skill game. In 10-15 years the entire game will be that style

Do you watch NHL hockey? in here are some of Ovi's hits... slow and useless?
2021-22


Maker and McDavid survive because they know how to survive THAT GAME as is still played. It has been played that way since Shore, Howe, on and on...

Cole Perfetti getting hit

Jets dealt brutal Cole Perfetti injury blow ahead of NHL trade deadline​

not from the hit in the video, but out an upper boby hit recently.

BCS, you are full of soup if you think that style of play will leave the NHL.
My point is that the OHL in general, is not preparing prospects to face the cruel reality of the NHL.

 

[bobber]

I use to go watch the 15-16 year old Triple A games at the local rink. They would take their gloves off in fights and pound on those steel cages with bare knuckles. Not sure what they accomplished other than cuts and bruises. Lots of testosterone and passion in hockey games with these young guys. I think we all got into scraps even playing road hockey once in a while. We might disagree on fighting and other physical aspects of the game on these boards but it's actually the players on the ice throwing punches. There is no denying there are some coaches in the OHL that like that element on their bench as either a deterrent or an intimidation. I remember opposing players being asked in interviews years back what they thought of sitting on the opposing bench and knowing Mike Moher was on the Ranger bench. Some said they were nervous and had to be aware when they were on the ice when he came out. He wasn't a huge player but just had a crazy look in his eyes.

 

[dirty12]

I find it interesting some of the comments regarding dirty play and injuries. I don’t track this but from where I am watching, the dirty play has decreased as have injuries related to bad hits and dirty play.

I think there needs to be a strong distinction between dirty play and chippy play. There will always be players that play up to the line and maybe cross it now and then in an effort to draw a reaction and an ensuing penalty based on a retaliation. Opposing teams hate that player and the home teams love that player. Brad Marchand is a great NHL example. Brady Stonehouse is a great OHL example.

If we look at the NHL, a player like Scott Stevens is now a dinosaur. Players can no longer target heads without facing severe consequences from major penalties, fines and suspensions, even in the NHL. Heavy checks from behind into the boards now are pretty much gone with the exception of the accidents where a player changes direction at the last second and gets hit awkwardly into the boards. Hard hits that make primary contact to the head are penalized agressively. Slashes on the hands and arms are called almost 100%. Hooks to the hands and under the hands are called almost 100%. Slew Footing has been expanded and I think mist of us still don’t have a complete understanding of what that is now. Anyone falling back awkwardly is usually the recipient of a slew foot call now.

Officials MANAGE THE GAME. It is their responsibility to make judgements with respect to what is a penalty when things like roughing or post-whistle scrums happen. Players will be agressive and when they are overly aggressive, they go to the box and feel shame. More often than not, it is the defending team in front of their own net that is trying to defend the goalie needlessly that causes a lot of the post-whistle scrums. It seems like a player going for an open puck or lightly bumps the goalie out of the crease going for the puck is the mortal enemy. No harm no foul, right? Wrong. Melee ensues.

The game of hockey is evolving into a more skilled game that is emphasizing speed. As changes at the Major Junior level are made, those changes will translate into culture changes that organically filter up to the NHL.

Hockey is the only major sport where fighting is allowed with a penalty assessed that doesn’t put the player out of the game. There is no need for it (as much as I like a good heated fight as a spectator). Kids should not be in situations where they are fighting. Grown adults shouldn’t be in situations where they are fighting either!

Chippy play will always be a part of the game and it is encouraged. Dirty play is not and has been called relatively consistent. Major fouls are reviewed in game as well. We see countless suspension in the OHL for all sorts of plays. Many of which the home team fans are upset about them or the length.

The OHL has a 3 fight rule which I find ridiculous. Either fighting is allowed or it is not. It should not be, “well, there is a need for fighting but not a need for a lot of fighting.” It is silly. Either fighting is dangerous and needs to be banned or it isn’t. Figure it out.

I find a lot of hacks and slashes that do not cause a break in the opposite direction and also those away from the play are let go. At least a couple of slashes, no call or 2 min caused a fracture.
I have a lot less issue with mugging by the D near the goal than twerps going to the net after the whistle with gloves and/or stick high.

 

[OMG67]

I find a lot of hacks and slashes that do not cause a break in the opposite direction and also those away from the play are let go. At least a couple of slashes, no call or 2 min caused a fracture.
I have a lot less issue with mugging by the D near the goal than twerps going to the net after the whistle with gloves and/or stick high.

It’s not as prevalent now as it used to be. And we can present anecdotal evidence of the contrary for any argument.

The reality is, Hockey overall is more tame now that at any point in hockey history. The violence is down dramatically.

If we significantly deviate from the mean, of course there will be issues. Then it is a matter of whether further discipline is required as the game continues to evolve.

 

[bcspragu]

Do you watch NHL hockey? in here are some of Ovi's hits... slow and useless?
2021-22


Maker and McDavid survive because they know how to survive THAT GAME as is still played. It has been played that way since Shore, Howe, on and on...

Cole Perfetti getting hit

Jets dealt brutal Cole Perfetti injury blow ahead of NHL trade deadline​

not from the hit in the video, but out an upper boby hit recently.

BCS, you are full of soup if you think that style of play will leave the NHL.
My point is that the OHL in general, is not preparing prospects to face the cruel reality of the NHL.

Bringing up Ovi is funny because hes a literal unicorn. Noone else like him in the game.

All Im saying is that style of game is dying. It wont happen over night, you dont have to like it, but you cant be blind to it either. Look at all the players the NHL is focusing on. All speed, all skill. Players like Zegras, Jack Hughes, Quinn Hughes, Makar, McDavid, soon to be Bedard. Thats how they want to market the game, and money talks. They don't want thier cash cows missing time because they got railroaded by a defenseman whos got 5 points on the season.

 

[swoopster]

Let me tell you right now... until there is a league wide rule that your "cash cows" can't be hit" then there will still be many EXCELLENT players who will be more than willing to take them out. I suggest you find another sport to watch .

And your comment about defencemen is disgraceful. That is what they do .... defend. Oh how I wished you had run into Dustin Byfuglien in the day.

 

[bcspragu]

Let me tell you right now... until there is a league wide rule that your "cash cows" can't be hit" then there will still be many EXCELLENT players who will be more than willing to take them out. I suggest you find another sport to watch .

And your comment about defencemen is disgraceful. That is what they do .... defend. Oh how I wished you had run into Dustin Byfuglien in the day.

Man you are ornery arent you. The back in my day shit is old, young people dont care, the world moves forward, people learn more about CTE and and head injuries rules will follow. Look at how fighting has dwindled in the last 10 years. Its only going to drop further.

Not to mention Byfuglien was a constant 30+ point guy. You cant tell me with a straight face that the league wouldn't rather have a stable full of Makars, Quinn Hughes, Adam Fox like players over a guys like Vlasic, Chariot, and Jamie Oleksiak. Two way puck moving defenseman and highly skilled speedy forwards are the future. You will have the occasional guy like Kronwall who can throw monster hits, but its going to be the exception not the rule.

Let me tell you right now... until there is a league wide rule that your "cash cows" can't be hit" then there will still be many EXCELLENT players who will be more than willing to take them out. I suggest you find another sport to watch .

And your comment about defencemen is disgraceful. That is what they do .... defend. Oh how I wished you had run into Dustin Byfuglien in the day.

Man you are ornery arent you. The back in my day shit is old, young people dont care, the world moves forward, people learn more about CTE and and head injuries rules will follow. Look at how fighting has dwindled in the last 10 years. Its only going to drop further.

Not to mention Byfuglien was a constant 30+ point guy. You cant tell me with a straight face that the league wouldn't rather have a stable full of Makars, Quinn Hughes, Adam Fox like players over a guys like Vlasic, Chariot, and Jamie Oleksiak. Two way puck moving defenseman and highly skilled speedy forwards are the future. You will have the occasional guy like Kronwall who can throw monster hits, but its going to be the exception not the rule

 

[swoopster]

Oh... and you posted twice... and my videos of hits were from the 2021- 22 NHL season, not ancient history. Do you want me to post the reality of contact in the 2022-2023 season? CTE is a consequence of playing any contact sport, even football and soccer.
So, why do we wear all that equipment, if you want to create the "beautiful game". Take it all off and remove the helmets, and lets play true A league no check hockey. The truth is that few would watch.

Idiotically you make it sound as if two way puck moving defencemen and speedy forwards were somehow a new invention.

Please look up D: Doug Harvey,Borje Salming, Larry Robinson. Bobby Orr,Pierre Pilote, Red Kelly,Phil Housley,Ray Bourque, Brad Park, Eddie Shore

Please look up F: Yvonne Couryner, Maurice & Henri Richard, Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur... and on and on

You, are a young individual who knows little of the games history and great players, who arrogantly only thinks that the game that he is witnessing today is the apex of all that is hockey. How sad for you.

 

[Kingpin794]

Oh... and you posted twice... and my videos of hits were from the 2021- 22 NHL season, not ancient history. Do you want me to post the reality of contact in the 2022-2023 season? CTE is a consequence of playing any contact sport, even football and soccer.
So, why do we wear all that equipment, if you want to create the "beautiful game". Take it all off and remove the helmets, and lets play true A league no check hockey. The truth is that few would watch.

Idiotically you make it sound as if two way puck moving defencemen and speedy forwards were somehow a new invention.

Please look up D: Doug Harvey,Borje Salming, Larry Robinson. Bobby Orr,Pierre Pilote, Red Kelly,Phil Housley,Ray Bourque, Brad Park, Eddie Shore

Please look up F: Yvonne Couryner, Maurice & Henri Richard, Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur... and on and on

You, are a young individual who knows little of the games history and great players, who arrogantly only thinks that the game that he is witnessing today is the apex of all that is hockey. How sad for you.

All those players you mentioned are legends of the game but the point still stands that GM’s aren’t constructing rosters in the same way as during the era those players were from. Those guys were exceptions to the rule during their playing days. It use to be that a roster was a group of strong, physical skaters with a few skill guys to put pucks in the net. Now rosters are a group of skilled skaters with a few physical players to do some of the dirty work. It’s not a better or worse thing. It’s just the natural progression of how rosters have changed.

 

[swoopster]

All those players you mentioned are legends of the game but the point still stands that GM’s aren’t constructing rosters in the same way as during the era those players were from. Those guys were exceptions to the rule during their playing days. It use to be that a roster was a group of strong, physical skaters with a few skill guys to put pucks in the net. Now rosters are a group of skilled skaters with a few physical players to do some of the dirty work. It’s not a better or worse thing. It’s just the natural progression of how rosters have changed.

Pin, I agree with your statement completely. My main point is that even with more skilled players with speed, there is still a lot of great hitting going on in the NHL as evidenced by my videos.

 

[Kingpin794]

Pin, I agree with your statement completely. My main point is that even with more skilled players with speed, there is still a lot of great hitting going on in the NHL as evidenced by my videos.

And there always will be great hitting. Some folks get paranoid that the game will be no contact but that’s a bit absurd to believe that. A guy like Seider is a good example of a guy that is out there to move the puck but can also lay the body from time to time.

Edit: I will add that the AHL is the place that these skill players learn to deal with physicality. There’s a lot of guys there that can’t make NHL rosters that play a little more of an old school game. I think it’s much easier to develop the offense in junior while working on the strength/other in AHL than to do the opposite. The AHL isn’t a place to really polish up your offensive game. It’s to get use to faster/stronger players.

 

[bobber]

As mentioned above there will always be hitting in hockey. Some of the speedy players mentioned are really an exception. Doubt you will ever see a whole team with forwards with the speed of a McDavid or McKinnon. They only come along once in a while. The game might evolve into a more skilled game in the future but right now it's one hell of a physical grind for a team to through to the NHL finals. I think the fighting debate though is more of a junior hockey debate. Be a long time before the NHL ever adopts anything that the CHL comes up with.

 

[OMG67]

As mentioned above there will always be hitting in hockey. Some of the speedy players mentioned are really an exception. Doubt you will ever see a whole team with forwards with the speed of a McDavid or McKinnon. They only come along once in a while. The game might evolve into a more skilled game in the future but right now it's one hell of a physical grind for a team to through to the NHL finals. I think the fighting debate though is more of a junior hockey debate. Be a long time before the NHL ever adopts anything that the CHL comes up with.

I think the key word in there is “evolve.” The game is evolving. As the athletes continue to get bigger and stronger, the propensity for injury is higher. The NHL needs to control it for player safety. The only way they can do it is by changing the way penalties are called and by tweaking rules.

The penalties for a lot of things that used to be legal 20 years ago have curbed the way the game is played. Smaller skilled players have a place in the game now. It is also a younger mans game. The superstars are typically under 30.

All things being equal, I prefer the game the way it was played in the 80’s but I recognize that the players are bigger, stronger, and faster and that combination with the way the game was played int he 80’s would result in a bloodbath filled with broken bones and mushy melons. We didn’t have any guys at 6’4 230 that could skate like the wind back then. Messier was 6’1 205. Then Lindros came along and crushed guys. Now there are loads of players with his size and better skaters that could line guys up and end careers with what used to be considered a clean hit. Scott Stevens was 6’0 200 Ending careers, or at least seasons.

The game has evolved and needs to evolve for a multitude of reasons. Most notably, player safety.

 

[bobber]

I think the key word in there is “evolve.” The game is evolving. As the athletes continue to get bigger and stronger, the propensity for injury is higher. The NHL needs to control it for player safety. The only way they can do it is by changing the way penalties are called and by tweaking rules.

The penalties for a lot of things that used to be legal 20 years ago have curbed the way the game is played. Smaller skilled players have a place in the game now. It is also a younger mans game. The superstars are typically under 30.

All things being equal, I prefer the game the way it was played in the 80’s but I recognize that the players are bigger, stronger, and faster and that combination with the way the game was played int he 80’s would result in a bloodbath filled with broken bones and mushy melons. We didn’t have any guys at 6’4 230 that could skate like the wind back then. Messier was 6’1 205. Then Lindros came along and crushed guys. Now there are loads of players with his size and better skaters that could line guys up and end careers with what used to be considered a clean hit. Scott Stevens was 6’0 200 Ending careers, or at least seasons.

The game has evolved and needs to evolve for a multitude of reasons. Most notably, player safety.

I remember being down at the Team Canada camp here in Kitchener when Lindros was here. I can't remember the players name in camp they said was the fastest. Lindros basically could keep up with him. I was surprised his speed of Lindros when they were going through on ice skills. Watched a bit of a documentary about past NHL stars. It was mentioned that players were shocked at Lindros physique. I guess that was the beginning of the end of pros playing golf all summer and arriving at camp out of shape. There are quite a few big skilled players coming through the CHL now. I like to see these players being innovative and try new moves on goalies. The most exciting thing for a fan to see are exciting plays that lead to nifty goals. Also seeing goalies at the top of their games.

 

[swoopster]

And there always will be great hitting. Some folks get paranoid that the game will be no contact but that’s a bit absurd to believe that. A guy like Seider is a good example of a guy that is out there to move the puck but can also lay the body from time to time.

Edit: I will add that the AHL is the place that these skill players learn to deal with physicality. There’s a lot of guys there that can’t make NHL rosters that play a little more of an old school game. I think it’s much easier to develop the offense in junior while working on the strength/other in AHL than to do the opposite. The AHL isn’t a place to really polish up your offensive game. It’s to get use to faster/stronger players.

I've agreed with you twice in one day... going out for a long walk to reassess myself

I, as an old man have had the opportunity to skate with many high school, small college and former somebody/ somewhere young players. It blows me away, that even among high school players, their skating skills and the ability to do things with the puck, that nobody on my college or minor league teams could do!

So yes, a quantum leap in skills.

And BCS... sorry for an unnecessary comment.

 

[bobber]

There is an article in the Kitchener Record saying the OHL is looking at rule changes on fighting. Waiting for the Quebec League decisions.

 

[OMG67]

There is an article in the Kitchener Record saying the OHL is looking at rule changes on fighting. Waiting for the Quebec League decisions.

The QMJHL Commish came out and stated that they control the rules int heir league, not the Province/Government. Pretty bold!