Protecting Elliott vs. Allen

[cardsfan]

Been hearing about the Pens' tough choice with two goalies they'll want to protect in an expansion draft. Am I crazy to think the Blues' choice is going to be even harder? Elliott's the same age as Fleury, is coming off one of the best seasons ever, is performing great in the playoffs and has an awesomely low contract for next year. Maybe the cap hit wouldn't be a consideration for Vegas, but it is for us. When I watch him playing, I'm not seeing "twilight of his career", either. I think he's got years left as our starter. Allen, meanwhile, I still don't know if I trust. If Elliott's capable of being the starter for the next 3-4 years at least, we've got some guys coming up behind Allen who might be even better candidates to take over at that point.

What do other fans here think? Whether we go any further than the second round or not, would you want them to potentially leave Elliott unprotected for an expansion draft?

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[ManyIdeas]

Kinda depends on how these playoffs turn out. If moose keeps killing it, it makes it a tough choice.

 

[SirPaste]

It's a tough call, I say Elliott though

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I can't fathom how we can have enough information to vote on this poll right now. There is a big difference between Elliott being a former Cup winner and flaming out spectacularly in the 2nd round, for example.

 

[KirkOut]

if there ever comes a time to make this decision, I'd say that Allen should almost certainly be the one protected. But if at the time they are really wanting to keep Elliott, they should definitely try to trade Allen instead of just not protecting him.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Elliott would be a pending UFA, Allen RFA.
The expansion team wouldn't draft a player to risk losing him. So logically Allen would be the choice. Seeing as we would have to send in an offer sheet and draft picks to get him back.

Also, due to Bishop and Fleury NMC Vasy and Murray may be available unless they're traded.

 

[Alklha]

I can't fathom how we can have enough information to vote on this poll right now. There is a big difference between Elliott being a former Cup winner and flaming out spectacularly in the 2nd round, for example.

Exactly.

My opinion is that Elliott is the better goalie, and I've always been of that opinion. While Elliott always looks a little more flustered and Allen has the better technique, Elliott is more effective. But Allen is younger and has some more upside.

 

[Brian39]

To clarify, an expansion draft would be taking place in the summer of 2017, not this offseason. So the current cap hits of either goalie shouldn't be a factor. Their contracts both expire after next season.

As mentioned earlier, Elliott will be a UFA at the end of next season, so it is unlikely that the expansion team would take him a couple weeks before free agency. With that said, it also seems unlikely that Elliott would sign a contract with us after the expansion draft if we protect Allen. Unless he drops off a cliff, he is going to get paid like a starting goalie at the end of this contract and expect to play the minutes of a starting goalie. The only way this becomes an issue is if we extend Elliott before his current contract expires. If we do that, I think it is clear who we would protect.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

Elliot will be a year older when the next expansion draft hits, and as well as he's been playing, protecting him wouldn't make sense with a younger Allen waiting, and guys like Husso and Opilka as well in the picture.

 

[BlueDream]

I can't fathom how we can have enough information to vote on this poll right now. There is a big difference between Elliott being a former Cup winner and flaming out spectacularly in the 2nd round, for example.

This.

If Elliott gets us to the Cup final even, it's a no-brainer. Who cares if Allen is younger? All you need is a goalie that can help get you there.

Isn't the expansion draft not until 2017 anyways? We have plenty of time to think about this, why are people so eager to discuss who we will be protecting? Given trades and free agency I'd wager that there might be skaters we will be protecting that aren't even on the roster yet. It's getting tiring.

 

[KingBran]

Blues will be fine with either (heck, they were fine with Halak too). Got to look at the long-term. Allen is the guy to keep. Hes much more technical and has much better movement, positioning, rebound control and puck handling.

Absolutely 100% not taking ANYTHING away from Elliott here. Ells is the guy right now, that's so obvious it's not even funny. But Allen will be the future.

 

[Brian39]

Blues will be fine with either (heck, they were fine with Halak too). Got to look at the long-term. Allen is the guy to keep. Hes much more technical and has much better movement, positioning, rebound control and puck handling.

Absolutely 100% not taking ANYTHING away from Elliott here. Ells is the guy right now, that's so obvious it's not even funny. But Allen will be the future.

I'd argue that keeping Elliott is a great choice if thinking long term. Husso seems to be the real deal and would be ready to take over in 3 years or so. I think he will be better than Allen in the long run and will be our starter around 2020. I think Elliott will be better than Allen over that time frame, so I'd keep Elliott if I had to choose right now.

With that said, we have the luxury of another season to evaluate both, so it's kind of moot right now.

 

[Evocable Manager]

I agree no pressure to worry right now.
I'd say by trade deadline [if there's expansion] we can commit to a guy.
That's 60-65 games into a new season. So for now we have bigger things to worry about.

 

[Edgar Carrow]

I'd say trade the one that will get the better return in a trade and protect the other.

I think teams would be more interested in Allen given his age, so I voted to protect Elliott.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

We can only lose one player via expansion draft right?

 

[EastonBlues22]

We can only lose one player via expansion draft right?

Per expansion team, yes.

 

[Brian39]

Per expansion team, yes.

Haha, I keep forgetting that the NHL hasn't officially announced Vegas even though it is a horribly kept secret that Vegas will be getting a team and Quebec won't.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Until such time as Elliott is re-signed, this is a no-brainer for Allen. Elliott is going to be a pending UFA when this draft is held.

As to who I think the Blues should commit to beyond the draft, it kind of depends on what Elliott's contract demands are. I think he's the slightly better goalie, but I don't think the gap is big enough to warrant paying Elliott a premium to be the guy. Allen could easily be the better goalie two years from now. Based on what I think Elliott will be looking for, I'd be planning to roll with Allen unless he significantly regresses next season.

Whether or not the Blues win the Cup with Elliott this year doesn't really factor into the decision for me (beyond how I think it will affect his asking price). Niemi won a Cup once, too. I want the guy whose combination of ability and cost gives us the best shot at winning moving forward. That's not always the guy who got you there in the past.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Until such time as Elliott is re-signed, this is a no-brainer for Allen. Elliott is going to be a pending UFA when this draft is held.

As to who I think the Blues should commit to beyond the draft, it kind of depends on what Elliott's contract demands are. I think he's the slightly better goalie, but I don't think the gap is big enough to warrant paying Elliott a premium to be the guy. Allen could easily be the better goalie two years from now. Based on what I think Elliott will be looking for, I'd be planning to roll with Allen unless he significantly regresses next season.

Whether or not the Blues win the Cup with Elliott this year doesn't really factor into the decision for me (beyond how I think it will affect his asking price). Niemi won a Cup once, too. I want the guy whose combination of ability and cost gives us the best shot at winning moving forward. That's not always the guy who got you there in the past.

Is there kind of a loophole with the expansion draft for pending UFAs?

If you have a good relationship (like say the Elliott situation) could a team and player be working on a contract, maybe have a deal in principle, but wait to sign it until after the expansion draft? The player isn't eligible to be drafted and does not need to be protected.

Maybe there isn't enough incentive for many players to do this, but maybe they don't want to be at risk of going to the expansion team?

 

[TheDizee]

allen, no brainer IMO

 

[2 Minute Minor]

allen, no brainer IMO

I'm surprised to see you say that. Can you elaborate?

 

[Evocable Manager]

Steen would also be a pending UFA, so where does that lead? Leave him.unprotected and sign him after? Sign him prior? Simply let him walk?

 

[TheDizee]

I'm surprised to see you say that. Can you elaborate?

not much to elaborate. all comes down to age.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Is there kind of a loophole with the expansion draft for pending UFAs?

If you have a good relationship (like say the Elliott situation) could a team and player be working on a contract, maybe have a deal in principle, but wait to sign it until after the expansion draft? The player isn't eligible to be drafted and does not need to be protected.

Maybe there isn't enough incentive for many players to do this, but maybe they don't want to be at risk of going to the expansion team?

The draft has historically been held after the season, but before the contracts for that season officially expire. Elliott will still technically be under contract with the Blues at the time of the expansion draft. Someone can draft him, but he can simply walk away from the new team a month or so later when his contract expires.

The Blues and Elliott can have an agreement in place and simply wait to make it official until after the draft.

 

[Mike Liut]

Elliott will be an UFA, so he wouldn't be protected since he wouldn't be a Blue at the time.