Prospect Info: Prospect Rating #10

[Empoleon8771]

O'Connor wins #9 in the run-off. Added Belliveau.

1. Poulin (53%)
2. POJ (74.4%)
3. Hallander (48.3%)
4. Legare (24.7% in first poll, 43.8% in runoff)
5. Clang (33.3%)
6. Zohorna (30.7%)
7. Broz (28.8%)
8. Blomqvist (29.2%)
9. O'Connor (34.5% in first poll, 65% in runoff)

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[Peat]

Puustinen.

 

[Andy99]

Puustinen.

I think he should have gone a few spots ago, but whatever…for what it’s worth, Pensburgh has just listed Lindberg as the Pens top goalie prospect ahead of Blomqvist and Clang at #8 on their ranking

 

[Gurglesons]

Puustinen.

I think this one should be rather clear cut.

 

[Peat]

I think this one should be rather clear cut.

Could be a bunch of Lindberg fans.

In a way they're quite similar actually. The numbers are impressive, but give their athletic profile and the challenges there will exist in moving their game along, most people are "wait and see" before getting excited.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Surprised Zohorna went so low. He's one of the few who has actually shown glimpses of what he can do at the NHL level, versus NHL competition.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Surprised Zohorna went so low. He's one of the few who has actually shown glimpses of what he can do at the NHL level, versus NHL competition.

I'm surprised Poulin is still allocated the #1 spot easily despite an evaluation from Team Canada that said he wasn't good enough as a 20-year old to make the squad.

People are really ceiling over floor on this board...which is fine but our guys' ceilings ain't that high.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

I think he should have gone a few spots ago, but whatever…for what it’s worth, Pensburgh has just listed Lindberg as the Pens top goalie prospect ahead of Blomqvist and Clang at #8 on their ranking

They also had Belliveau at 10. Probably looking for clicks

 

[Peat]

I'm surprised Poulin is still allocated the #1 spot easily despite an evaluation from Team Canada that said he wasn't good enough as a 20-year old to make the squad.

People are really ceiling over floor on this board...which is fine but our guys' ceilings ain't that high.

Have you seen the team Canada took? It shouldn't mean all that much.

What does mean something is people are now dwelling heavily on his skating again and questioning whether it's good enough to be a noteworthy guy. There was mixed reports at the draft, they vanished after year 1, now they're back. If they're right, that'll severely curtail his ceiling. Far more bothered by that then whether he hit form at the right time to make a very competitive roster.

But

1) There's still people pretty high on him
2) Sherbrooke was hit with a bad Covid outbreak while he was there and given how some players who had it played afterwards, I'm wondering if maybe he caught it and he'll look better for an off-season and be back on that Year 1 path
3) Even if you take the doubters' philosophy, there's still nobody else in the pool who definitely has a higher ceiling than Poulin at this point.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think most of our guys, even the best of the bunch, are afterthoughts when you look around the league and the best prospect pools. We're just so starved for talent that we latch on to any pick we make in the hope they turn out to be an exciting, impact player at the NHL level. -edit- I mean, it's obviously the price you pay with two generational megastar centers and the go for it at all costs mentality for 15+ years, and I don't think anyone would want to have done it any other way. Just to be clear and to get out in front of all those Ben Shapiro wannabes with their "haha gotcha!" stuff.

Zohorna had a nice 5 games or so and people are already daydreaming of the dude on Geno's wing, etc. Let's see if he can stick as a 4th liner first before thinking about moving him up. I figure he's probably closer to a Kuhn than a Rust or Jake tier guy. Lafferty looked great in his first month too and now I'm annoyed at even reading his name on a depth chart because he's trash.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think most of our guys, even the best of the bunch, are afterthoughts when you look around the league and the best prospect pools. We're just so starved for talent that we latch on to any pick we make in the hope they turn out to be an exciting, impact player at the NHL level. -edit- I mean, it's obviously the price you pay with two generational megastar centers and the go for it at all costs mentality for 15+ years, and I don't think anyone would want to have done it any other way. Just to be clear and to get out in front of all those Ben Shapiro wannabes with their "haha gotcha!" stuff.

Zohorna had a nice 5 games or so and people are already daydreaming of the dude on Geno's wing, etc. Let's see if he can stick as a 4th liner first before thinking about moving him up. I figure he's probably closer to a Kuhn than a Rust or Jake tier guy. Lafferty looked great in his first month too and now I'm annoyed at even reading his name on a depth chart because he's trash.

I'm not expecting much from Zohorna. If he could max out as a Joel Armia, that would be fantastic. So for me it's not about expecting him to be some high end scorer next to Geno, as it is him showing he can at least play at the NHL level and look like a solid bottom six option.

Maybe I'm just the pessimistic type, but that's more than some of the guys he's ranked behind will probably reach. But I guess I'm just not sold on our prospect pool because we've got no high-end, can't miss guys. So I'll opt for the ones, even with low ceilings, who've shown they don't look out of place at the NHL level.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not expecting much from Zohorna. If he could max out as a Joel Armia, that would be fantastic. So for me it's not about expecting him to be some high end scorer next to Geno, as it is him showing he can at least play at the NHL level and look like a solid bottom six option.

Maybe I'm just the pessimistic type, but that's more than some of the guys he's ranked behind will probably reach. But I guess I'm just not sold on our prospect pool because we've got no high-end, can't miss guys. So I'll opt for the ones, even with low ceilings, who've shown they don't look out of place at the NHL level.

I'm hoping he ends up as a solid, full-time NHLer on the 4th line. Anything above that is great, but I'm not really ready to get excited about the dude after a handful of games yet. We don't even know if Sully will keep him in the lineup.

We have a real hoard of 4th liners now, and I would be shocked if Sully didn't give the nod to someone like Simon over Zoho, DOC, or anyone else--even if Simon didn't really outplay those guys. Sully is set in his ways and stubborn as all hell, so I anticipate guys like Simon and Lafferty will have to do a whole lot less to be on the roster than some of the aforementioned prospects who will likely have to blow the doors wide open a la rookie Marino to stick.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Have you seen the team Canada took? It shouldn't mean all that much.

What does mean something is people are now dwelling heavily on his skating again and questioning whether it's good enough to be a noteworthy guy. There was mixed reports at the draft, they vanished after year 1, now they're back. If they're right, that'll severely curtail his ceiling. Far more bothered by that then whether he hit form at the right time to make a very competitive roster.

But

1) There's still people pretty high on him
2) Sherbrooke was hit with a bad Covid outbreak while he was there and given how some players who had it played afterwards, I'm wondering if maybe he caught it and he'll look better for an off-season and be back on that Year 1 path
3) Even if you take the doubters' philosophy, there's still nobody else in the pool who definitely has a higher ceiling than Poulin at this point.

I am ceiling over floor. I am just not convinced Poulin's is notably higher than POJ's, Zohorna's or one of the goalies popping off.

 

[Peat]

I am ceiling over floor. I am just not convinced Poulin's is notably higher than POJ's, Zohorna's or one of the goalies popping off.

Possibly not - although if his skating takes a step his ceiling soars - but if his ceiling is similar, and his floor is higher than most of them... very close between him and POJ on that score, who I think I might have voted for, but otherwise...

 

[ChaosAgent]

Possibly not - although if his skating takes a step his ceiling soars - but if his ceiling is similar, and his floor is higher than most of them... very close between him and POJ on that score, who I think I might have voted for, but otherwise...

Why is his floor higher than guys who have displayed success, even in limited samples, at the NHL level?

Floor is the likelihood of becoming at least a useful player. Maybe it's a given that he does great at the A. I don't think he's at the level of pedigree where it is. But who knows. I hope he blows everyone away.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I am ceiling over floor. I am just not convinced Poulin's is notably higher than POJ's, Zohorna's or one of the goalies popping off.

The goalies probably have the highest ceiling. We've got a bunch of guys who probably have middle-6 ceilings, erring on the side of 3rd liners, and a bunch of guys who probably have bottom-6 ceilings, erring on the side of 4th liners--and POJ's ceiling probably tops out at middle pairing, with bottom pairing being a relatively safe bet.

But I'm in HSL's camp regarding goalies. They're all doodoo casserole with a side of butt salad.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why is his floor higher than guys who have displayed success, even in limited samples, at the NHL level?

Floor is the likelihood of becoming at least a useful player. Maybe it's a given that he does great at the A. I don't think he's at the level of pedigree where it is. But who knows. I hope he blows everyone away.

I'm still trying to get a handle on what type of upside Poulin actually has. I've gotten excited about winger prospects in the past only for them to end up being Luca Caputi or Erik Tangradi.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Poulin's premiere attribute is that he's like typical "safe" in all aspects. I've never heard/read anything about the kid that's specifically lauded his shot, or playmaking ability, or wheels, or nose for the net or anything. He just seems to kinda exist. Hope I'm wrong and he makes me eat crow, but I'm just not very excited about him--or anyone else really.

I'd say Hallander's probably caught my eye the most of all the forwards because he seems to play a style that transitions to the NHL game the easiest, and can most easily carve out a niche as a middle-6 third wheel type guy if all goes according to plan. There's never not a need for a grunt with a nose for the net and ability to both clean up loose pucks around the crease as well as play a defensively sound game. Doubt he hits that ceiling, or ever really ends up as more than a 4th liner, but again--hoping to eat crow.

I'm sure the next guy to come out of the prospect pipeline is gonna be some guy nobody's ever heard of that turns out to be the next outta left field guy a la Rust or Jake.

 

[Peat]

Why is his floor higher than guys who have displayed success, even in limited samples, at the NHL level?

Floor is the likelihood of becoming at least a useful player. Maybe it's a given that he does great at the A. I don't think he's at the level of pedigree where it is. But who knows. I hope he blows everyone away.

Sam Lafferty displayed success in a limited sample at the NHL level - there's a limit as to how much it means. I kinda agree when it comes to POJ but even then, that's not a super safe thing, and the rest, their floor is still shaky. Is anyone going to be shocked if POJ or Zohorna never play a full NHL season?

Poulin has a bunch of NHL tools and it'd be a borderline shock if he couldn't manage a limited sample at the NHL level.

I'm still trying to get a handle on what type of upside Poulin actually has. I've gotten excited about winger prospects in the past only for them to end up being Luca Caputi or Erik Tangradi.

The upside is a power forward with above average vision and puck skills, which makes for a useful top 6 third wheel at least. But most guys don't reach their upside. Him becoming a more skillful version of ZAR, or some wing version of Bonino (a third liner who shows well on the second in patches but never sticks), or Hornqvist without the PP excellence and madness but more skill seems fairly likely outcomes. And maybe he just totally misses.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Is anyone going to be shocked if POJ or Zohorna never play a full NHL season?

Poulin has a bunch of NHL tools and it'd be a borderline shock if he couldn't manage a limited sample at the NHL level.

I'd be no more shocked if Poulin doesn't play a full NHL season. He hasn't played in the A yet. Zohorna at least has size and skating teams would dream on.

But honestly, who cares. Poulin and POJ would be 4th-6th in a normal team's pool but they are at the top of ours. Hair-splitting. Our best prospects are continued progress from the likes of Kapanen and Marino. Even guys like Blueger and Jarry.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd be no more shocked if Poulin doesn't play a full NHL season. He hasn't played in the A yet. Zohorna at least has size and skating teams would dream on.

But honestly, who cares. Poulin and POJ would be 4th-6th in a normal team's pool but they are at the top of ours. Hair-splitting. Our best prospects are continued progress from the likes of Kapanen and Marino. Even guys like Blueger and Jarry.

Everything we’ve seen and heard from prospect guys is Poulin despite his skating will be an NHLer.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The upside is a power forward with above average vision and puck skills, which makes for a useful top 6 third wheel at least. But most guys don't reach their upside. Him becoming a more skillful version of ZAR, or some wing version of Bonino (a third liner who shows well on the second in patches but never sticks), or Hornqvist without the PP excellence and madness but more skill seems fairly likely outcomes. And maybe he just totally misses.

I think this is why I'm not all that excited. I know that all teams can use depth and having cheap ZAR replacements is never a bad thing, per se. But I just can't get excited about a prospect pool where the best prospect we have might end up being ZAR+. Especially when you look at most other teams' prospect pools and they have 1 or 2 players with legitimate top line/top pairing potential, and their 3rd or 4th best prospects are still likely better than our top.

I guess it would just be nice if we had more prospects who had a good chance of developing into Jake Guentzels than a bunch of ZAR/Josh Archibald/Dom Simon/Scott Wilson types. The former can keep our playoff window open for longer, while the latter does almost nothing to help Sid/Geno as they age.

 

[Peat]

I think this is why I'm not all that excited. I know that all teams can use depth and having cheap ZAR replacements is never a bad thing, per se. But I just can't get excited about a prospect pool where the best prospect we have might end up being ZAR+. Especially when you look at most other teams' prospect pools and they have 1 or 2 players with legitimate top line/top pairing potential, and their 3rd or 4th best prospects are still likely better than our top.

I guess it would just be nice if we had more prospects who had a good chance of developing into Jake Guentzels than a bunch of ZAR/Josh Archibald/Dom Simon/Scott Wilson types. The former can keep our playoff window open for longer, while the latter does almost nothing to help Sid/Geno as they age.

Fair enough, but pretty much every prospect in hockey outside the top 30 or so has a good chance of ending up ZAR+ or something like it. And even in that top 30, I'd say about 1 in 5/6 are going to end up fairly meh too. It's all getting excited over likely failures on the off-chance you can be excited for the one that beats the odds all the way through.

*pause* Wait, that's all of being an NHL fan.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Fair enough, but pretty much every prospect in hockey outside the top 30 or so has a good chance of ending up ZAR+ or something like it. And even in that top 30, I'd say about 1 in 5/6 are going to end up fairly meh too. It's all getting excited over likely failures on the off-chance you can be excited for the one that beats the odds all the way through.

*pause* Wait, that's all of being an NHL fan.

This is why I'm always in favor of "swinging for the fences" picks. Guys with star upside if they hit, even if the chances of them hitting are only 10%. I'm not really a fan of safe picks because even if they hit, you've got a Blueger or a Sundqvist (two recent 2nd round picks of ours). I'd rather swing for the fences and end up with Sprongs 90% of the time but Brayden Points that 10% they actually hit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Poulin's upside is Brandon Saad with a better shot.