Prime Jonathan Toews or Current Auston Matthews

[BlueMed]

Toews easily here.
The guy at his peak was an amazing two way player and showed up big time when it mattered in the playoffs and for Team Canada. Too many people rank players purely by offensive stats but there’s a reason so many Cup winners have had great two way Selke level centers like Toews, Kopitar, O’Reilly and Bergeron to name just a few.

Maybe one day this forum will realize that regular season offensive stats don't mean squat.

 

[JaegerDice]

Maybe one day this forum will realize that regular season offensive stats don't mean squat.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Maybe one day this forum will realize that regular season offensive stats don't mean squat.

So if Ryan O'Reilly finished top 5 points this upcoming season you won't bother to mention that?

 

[JaegerDice]

So if Ryan O'Reilly finished top 5 points this upcoming season you won't bother to mention that?

I won't put words in his mouth, but let me present a Toews related example.

In 2018-2019, Toews put up 81 points in 82 games, his best raw points total. This was largely due to deployment, as the team was overall a disaster defensively, Toews remains one of the best offensive players on the team, and in a '**** it, we'll just try to outscore our problems' system, the team was willing to basically let him trade chances with offensive deployment.

However, he was not anywhere near as impactful on the ice. His possession was worse, his defensive impact was worse, he just simply didn't dominant the ice like he did in his prime despite scoring 10 or more fewer points.

His production went up, but his practical, raw impact went down.

If 2010-2015 Toews managed to score 80 points or more in addition to dominating and dictating play from a hard matchup deployment, hell yes, I would argue that should be talked about.

But trading in the impact for the points? Nah. I'd rather have the 2015 Toews that scored 60-70 points and turned opposing 1st lines into mulch.

So as far as ROR, I can see why Blues fans would prefer him to keep being the play-driving force he is, rather than getting top 5 points finishes and losing that raw overall impact. If he could do BOTH, obviously you take it and sing his praises from the rooftops.

 

[BlueMed]

I won't put words in his mouth, but let me present a Toews related example.

In 2018-2019, Toews put up 81 points in 82 games, his best raw points total. This was largely due to deployment, as the team was overall a disaster defensively, Toews remains one of the best offensive players on the team, and in a '**** it, we'll just try to outscore our problems' system, the team was willing to basically let him trade chances with offensive deployment.

However, he was not anywhere near as impactful on the ice. His possession was worse, his defensive impact was worse, he just simply didn't dominant the ice like he did in his prime despite scoring 10 or more fewer points.

His production went up, but his practical, raw impact went down.

If 2010-2015 Toews managed to score 80 points or more in addition to dominating and dictating play from a hard matchup deployment, hell yes, I would argue that should be talked about.

But trading in the impact for the points? Nah. I'd rather have the 2015 Toews that scored 60-70 points and turned opposing 1st lines into mulch.

So as far as ROR, I can see why Blues fans would prefer him to keep being the play-driving force he is, rather than getting top 5 points finishes and losing that raw overall impact. If he could do BOTH, obviously you take it and sing his praises from the rooftops.

Well said. The only player who could ever maintain elite point totals AND shut the other team's best players down was Datsyuk.

 

[Regal]

I won't put words in his mouth, but let me present a Toews related example.

In 2018-2019, Toews put up 81 points in 82 games, his best raw points total. This was largely due to deployment, as the team was overall a disaster defensively, Toews remains one of the best offensive players on the team, and in a '**** it, we'll just try to outscore our problems' system, the team was willing to basically let him trade chances with offensive deployment.

However, he was not anywhere near as impactful on the ice. His possession was worse, his defensive impact was worse, he just simply didn't dominant the ice like he did in his prime despite scoring 10 or more fewer points.

His production went up, but his practical, raw impact went down.

If 2010-2015 Toews managed to score 80 points or more in addition to dominating and dictating play from a hard matchup deployment, hell yes, I would argue that should be talked about.

But trading in the impact for the points? Nah. I'd rather have the 2015 Toews that scored 60-70 points and turned opposing 1st lines into mulch.

So as far as ROR, I can see why Blues fans would prefer him to keep being the play-driving force he is, rather than getting top 5 points finishes and losing that raw overall impact. If he could do BOTH, obviously you take it and sing his praises from the rooftops.

Toews didn't really score any more relative to the league that season anyway (he was tied for 26th in league scoring that year, when he has a couple years in the top 20) Prime Toews is over PPG in the current league while being impactful all over the ice.