Pre-WWII Draft 1st Round - Halifax Crescents vs. Montreal Wanderers

BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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Coach: Cecil Hart

Baldy Northcott - Cyclone Taylor - Bryan Hextall, Sr
Paul Thompson - Frank McGee (A) - Billy Gilmour
Johnny Gottselig (A) - Dick Irvin - Mush March
Louis Berlinguette - Pud Glass - Barney Stanley
Harry Oliver, Jimmy Gardner

Lionel Hitchman - Earl Seibert
Weldy Young - Sylvio Mantha (C)
Howard McNamara - Albert Leduc
Harry Mummery

Roy Worters
Lorne Chabot

PP1:
Thompson
Taylor - McGee - Gilmour
Seibert

PP2:
Hextall, Sr
Northcott - Irvin - Gottselig
Young

PK1:
Glass - Gottselig
Hitchman - Mantha

PK2:
Northcott - March
McNamara - Seibert


Vs.


Montreal Wanderers


1702897763322.png


Pete Muldoon, Head Coach

Toe Blake - Howie Morenz (C) - Hooley Smith
Frank Foyston - Joe Primeau - Jimmy Ward
Dave Trottier - Cooney Weiland - Scotty Davidson (A)
Blair Russel - Ernie Russell (R) - Odie Cleghorn
Johnny Gagnon, Art Chapman

Herb Gardiner - Eddie Gerard (A)
Lionel Conacher - Mike Grant
Hamby Shore - Fred Lake
Taffy Abel

Percy LeSueur
Normie Smith

PP1:
Blake
Hooley - Morenz - Primeau
Gerard

PP2:
Russell
Weiland - Davidson - Foyston
Grant

PK1: Foyston - B. Russel - Gardiner - Gerard
PK2: Weiland - H.Smith - Conacher - Grant

@Dr John Carlson
@tinyzombies
 

tinyzombies

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
16,869
2,352
Montreal, QC, Canada
At first glance it appears to be apples and oranges to me. My first line is a tick better at LW and arguably Center. Your second line is a tick better thanks to Thompson. Third lines pretty similar tho Davidson's longevity could be called into question, but it is a third line so I'm saying even. My fourth line feels a bit stronger now that I moved Russel down there to add some D?

I think my D is a tick better in all three pairings. Gerard adds more skill than Seibert. Second pairing, Grant is slightly better than Weldy. Hitchman is world class defensively, but so is Gardiner, and Gardiner has more offensive upside as we are now including his pre-NHL caliber play? Your goaltender is better.

My PP1 is a lot stronger feels like, which I think smoothes over the goaltending question.

Our PP2's feel similar in quality.

Our PK1's feel similar in quality.

My PK2 maybe a tick better?

And your coach is better.

As for toughness, I feel like I've blended in more in my forwards group maybe which bodes well against that D group of yours (esp the speed of my forward group), whereas your top 4 on D has more, though I still have two rock solid tough guys in Gardiner and Conacher.

I think both teams skate well. I have Conacher who's skating was seen as an issue, but otherwise lots of speed through my lineup.

Combination play, Blake and Hooley are both above average. Morenz as well judging from assist totals, though he wasn't asked to play that way. Primeau is elite and Weiland also excellent. Foyston and Davidson could both make plays reportedly. Gerard and Grant seem to be elite puck movers and carriers on D. Not sure about your group.

If we have to fight about it, I wouldn't want to tangle with your dmen, but I do have Conacher, Davidson, Gardiner, Odie if you push him hard enough, and Taffy off the bench.
 
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Dr John Carlson

Registered User
Dec 21, 2011
9,761
4,057
Nova Scotia
We are in agreement that these are two teams who are close to being equal.

I'll sort of work backwards here. I think our defenses are pretty close, in fact the top 4 is actually quite stylistically close as well now that I'm seeing them together. One pure shutdown guy paired with the all-around beast, and then an old-timey rushing cover point next to more of a two-way guy. I think I have the best player here in Seibert, who has the size and speed to match up against anybody in Montreal's forward corps, and I say that as a really big Gerard fan who rates him higher than we voted him in the pre-merger project. But that advantage may be negated by Montreal having a stronger bottom pairing. I guess that would depend on utilization, and how much each pairing is going to play... point is, the bluelines look close.

Then there's goaltending... Worters is definitely better than Peerless Percy, right? I said in my assassination of the Wanderers that LeSueur was the worst of the starting netminders. So that's a solid advantage, but there's not much more to say about it than that. I'll let people decide how much they want to weigh goaltending. I won't focus there.

I think Halifax has a small edge in the forwards. Obviously Montreal's top line is excellent, and I'd say it's better than mine. But my Taylor line is balanced enough, and skates/backchecks enough that I'm comfortable going power on power with them versus Morenz. I also have a dedicated shutdown line at my disposal, the Glass line, with three big men renowned for their backchecking prowess, which will allow me to match them against Morenz and keep Taylor fresher as the game wears on. Montreal has the Weiland line for defense, but I'd take Berlinguette and Stanley over Trottier and Davidson purely as defensive wingers.

For the other lines, I like my chances. I think I have the two most dynamic offensive threats in McGee and Irvin, with possibly the third depending on how you see Thompson versus Foyston, and we trust Cecil Hart will be able to get the most out of them in this matchup. I also question how Montreal will be able to use their 4th line here. My own 4th line won't be out there against theirs, so Ernie Russell and Odie Cleghorn will be tasked with matching up against one of McGee/Irvin and Thompson/Gottselig respectively, all of whom were highly skilled as either goal scorers or puck carriers, and that's a good matchup for me.

Overall, this should be a close result... apples and oranges as my opponent said. I just think I've got a little more offensive juice in the tank - combine that with my edge at goaltender, and I feel like I've got a good shot.
 
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tinyzombies

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
16,869
2,352
Montreal, QC, Canada
We are in agreement that these are two teams who are close to being equal.

I'll sort of work backwards here. I think our defenses are pretty close, in fact the top 4 is actually quite stylistically close as well now that I'm seeing them together. One pure shutdown guy paired with the all-around beast, and then an old-timey rushing cover point next to more of a two-way guy. I think I have the best player here in Seibert, who has the size and speed to match up against anybody in Montreal's forward corps, and I say that as a really big Gerard fan who rates him higher than we voted him in the pre-merger project. But that advantage may be negated by Montreal having a stronger bottom pairing. I guess that would depend on utilization, and how much each pairing is going to play... point is, the bluelines look close.

Then there's goaltending... Worters is definitely better than Peerless Percy, right? I said in my assassination of the Wanderers that LeSueur was the worst of the starting netminders. So that's a solid advantage, but there's not much more to say about it than that. I'll let people decide how much they want to weigh goaltending. I won't focus there.

I think Halifax has a small edge in the forwards. Obviously Montreal's top line is excellent, and I'd say it's better than mine. But my Taylor line is balanced enough, and skates/backchecks enough that I'm comfortable going power on power with them versus Morenz. I also have a dedicated shutdown line at my disposal, the Glass line, with three big men renowned for their backchecking prowess, which will allow me to match them against Morenz and keep Taylor fresher as the game wears on. Montreal has the Weiland line for defense, but I'd take Berlinguette and Stanley over Trottier and Davidson purely as defensive wingers.

For the other lines, I like my chances. I think I have the two most dynamic offensive threats in McGee and Irvin, with possibly the third depending on how you see Thompson versus Foyston, and we trust Cecil Hart will be able to get the most out of them in this matchup. I also question how Montreal will be able to use their 4th line here. My own 4th line won't be out there against theirs, so Ernie Russell and Odie Cleghorn will be tasked with matching up against one of McGee/Irvin and Thompson/Gottselig respectively, all of whom were highly skilled as either goal scorers or puck carriers, and that's a good matchup for me.

Overall, this should be a close result... apples and oranges as my opponent said. I just think I've got a little more offensive juice in the tank - combine that with my edge at goaltender, and I feel like I've got a good shot.
My fourth line won’t see much time and Morenz was built for more minutes.

Muldoon’s teams went all out so my team will be after the puck all over the ice with speed, which will further limit the offensive contribution from your blueline, which does not equal mine I don’t think.

Agree 100%, but I also think Davidson is minimized too much. Some said he was better than Bill Cook and that last season he put the team on his back to a Cup. There’s nothing he didn’t excel at reportedly and he did it with size, speed and with toughness. That’s on my third line and he has Weiland getting him the puck and plenty of help from the blueline.

So no projections are needed for Davidson, he literally showed who he was. And that was just the beginning for him.

Ok that’s my attempt lol. Thanks for your comments always love learning things.
 
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