Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season | Game 2 | Oilers 3 @ Canucks 5

[Hit the post]

Spin it any way you want but hockey is a team game and it always will be. Look at the Oilers, they've been oozing top line talent for years and they've been crap for just that many. A team needs journeymen.

This management team already got a "journeyman" last season (Cracknell) for free. No need for a player like Granlund when you can acquire those types without giving up a lottery ticket.

Oilers needed at least SOME quality vets (can't field a team of inexperienced players - they'd be eaten alive even at the AHL level). Their revolving door on coaches hardly helped (especially when you have the likes of Eakins among them).

 

[CanaFan]

I am a journey man or was and I employed many. There journey men and there are journey men, I used to pick the ones that I thought would fit best on my "team". The one I passed on weren't necessarily "bad" but weren't as good a fit. I never said top six players aren't as important that would be a silly statement so of course they are part of a team game.

I only used "appeal to authority" because it's a catch phrase around here. Common sense says to me that there are very few if any "bad" ones in a billion dollar industry. The reality is that NHL is very competitive
and it's fine line between success and failure and I don't live or die by labelling a GM good or bad.

I am optimistic about the group that's been assembled by Benning.

I don't live or die by it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It is exactly because it is a competitive league that the appeal to authority argument doesn't make sense. Benning isn't making deals with hockey fans, he's making them with other "authorities". And his dubious track record to-date - Vey, Clendenning, Bartowski, Prust - causes me to doubt that he is the smarter of the two authorities in that transaction. We'll see but its a trade I have concerns about based on the nature of the player roles (bottom 6 v top 6) and way in which Shink was tracking. As a rule I prefer to trade for talent and use drafting-development, UFA, and PTO's to fill in bottom 6.

 

[PM]

Radio interviewed Gaunce between periods and asked him while they were only teammates for a bit what did he learn from McDavid?

His response...hard to learn anything because his game on such a different level than anyone else's game. His passing lanes are different and he's thinking much further ahead than anyone else.

#GaunceForGM. The kid just knows his hockey. If he doesn't make the team to start the season I will be upset. He's looked great out there and is in that perfect mould of a bottom-6 player that coaches drool over. The fact that he can now play either centre or winger (still prefer him at centre) should help him crack that fourth line over Etem or Granlund (less likely due to the trade).

 

[MS]

Granlund was given a massive opportunity last night to show what he could do - 20+ minutes of icetime as the #1 center, playing alongside two established (if not great) NHL wingers.

I thought his first 3 or 4 shifts were really good - showed some jump, seemed to be skating better, had one decent opportunity. Then he just blended into the woodwork the rest of the way and that line was generally ineffective. And he was vastly outplayed by Gaunce. And outplayed by Zalewski as well. Ended up being a very disappointing performance given the opportunity.

I don't really see a place for this player on the roster unless it's as a 13th forward, and I think Zalewski is a better option on that front, even. The 4 centers should be Sedin-Horvat-Sutter-Gaunce.

 

[Nomobo]

I don't live or die by it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It is exactly because it is a competitive league that the appeal to authority argument doesn't make sense. Benning isn't making deals with hockey fans, he's making them with other "authorities". And his dubious track record to-date - Vey, Clendenning, Bartowski, Prust - causes me to doubt that he is the smarter of the two authorities in that transaction. We'll see but its a trade I have concerns about based on the nature of the player roles (bottom 6 v top 6) and way in which Shink was tracking. As a rule I prefer to trade for talent and use drafting-development, UFA, and PTO's to fill in bottom 6.

Seem to be going around in circles here. I'll say it again: I'm a Canuck fan first and foremost, not an analyst or pretending to be one. Trying to be objective balancing being a fan, common sense and knowing everything is not always as it seems. It seems to me that you've taken the stand to live or die by labelling Benning and the rest of management as basically incompetent. I don't think I will change your view and I hope you don't drift toward y2k territory, that's extreme.

See the bolded.

 

[Nomobo]

Granlund was given a massive opportunity last night to show what he could do - 20+ minutes of icetime as the #1 center, playing alongside two established (if not great) NHL wingers.

I thought his first 3 or 4 shifts were really good - showed some jump, seemed to be skating better, had one decent opportunity. Then he just blended into the woodwork the rest of the way and that line was generally ineffective. And he was vastly outplayed by Gaunce. And outplayed by Zalewski as well. Ended up being a very disappointing performance given the opportunity.

I don't really see a place for this player on the roster unless it's as a 13th forward, and I think Zalewski is a better option on that front, even. The 4 centers should be Sedin-Horvat-Sutter-Gaunce.

Huh? Dorsett is a role player and we know what that role is. To call Etem an established NHL player is a stretch to say the least.

 

[CanaFan]

Seem to be going around in circles here. I'll say it again: I'm a Canuck fan first and foremost, not an analyst or pretending to be one. Trying to be objective balancing being a fan, common sense and knowing everything is not always as it seems. It seems to me that you've taken the stand to live or die by labelling Benning and the rest of management as basically incompetent. I don't think I will change your view and I hope you don't drift toward y2k territory, that's extreme.

See the bolded.

And I'm an objective person first and foremost, regardless of my hockey allegiances. I personally don't understand the whitewashing of bad moves under the guise of being "a fan". Being a Canuck fan didn't magically turn the Cam Neely trade into a win for us. Moves are good or bad independent of any of our fanship and I find it difficult to take seriously people who are incapable of doing the same. I've listed why I dislike the trade and no, the pleadings of a self-admitted "homer" aren't terribly likely to sway my mind. You know what will? Granlund playing like a player worth trading our leading AHL scorer for. That's why I say we'll see.

 

[Nomobo]

This management team already got a "journeyman" last season (Cracknell) for free. No need for a player like Granlund when you can acquire those types without giving up a lottery ticket.

Oilers needed at least SOME quality vets (can't field a team of inexperienced players - they'd be eaten alive even at the AHL level). Their revolving door on coaches hardly helped (especially when you have the likes of Eakins among them).

I'm not sure if you know what a journeyman is, at least not the way I see it.

 

[MS]

Huh? Dorsett is a role player and we know what that role is. To call Etem an established NHL player is a stretch to say the least.

Etem has played nearly 200 NHL games and was a regular for this team in the 2nd half last year.

Gaunce was able to shine with Michael Carcone and Jayson Megna as linemates.

 

[iloveloov*]

Granlund was given a massive opportunity last night to show what he could do - 20+ minutes of icetime as the #1 center, playing alongside two established (if not great) NHL wingers.

I thought his first 3 or 4 shifts were really good - showed some jump, seemed to be skating better, had one decent opportunity. Then he just blended into the woodwork the rest of the way and that line was generally ineffective. And he was vastly outplayed by Gaunce. And outplayed by Zalewski as well. Ended up being a very disappointing performance given the opportunity.

I don't really see a place for this player on the roster unless it's as a 13th forward, and I think Zalewski is a better option on that front, even. The 4 centers should be Sedin-Horvat-Sutter-Gaunce.

Describing Dorsett as anything more than an anchor and Etem as an established NHL winger just shows how you've gone off the deep end against Granlund.

Zalewski with all his grit and physical tools just doesn't have Granlund's hockey IQ.

Gaunce is proving me wrong with his play, he looks ready as a winger. He's doing all the little things right and with his size and lethal shot it's hard to see him being sent down.

 

[Hit the post]

I'm not sure if you know what a journeyman is, at least not the way I see it.

Guess we just have different ideas as to what a journeyman is. I don't see how a bunch of Granlund's would have changed the fortunes of the Oilers in recent history in any meaningful way.

Fortunately (for us) they were too quick on the trigger with respect to Krueger (who looked like he had them going in the right direction).

Describing Dorsett as anything more than an anchor and Etem as an established NHL winger just shows how you've gone off the deep end against Granlund.

Granlund had a good/solid night. Course, Sbisa had a number of those as well (consecutive games on my recollection) but in the end, he is what he is.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I missed the first period but I truthfully didn't even know Granlund and Dorsett played last night until you guys told me.

A few people commented on etems skating. He really did look weird, like he couldn't get out of 2nd gear all game. Did he have surgery in the offseason or something? Or was he just floating.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I'd give a Gaunce-Granlund-Zalewski line a look in the next game.

 

[rune74]

Wasn't the grandlund line the one out against mcDavids line all night? I'm pretty sure it was that in a blog.

 

[MS]

Describing Dorsett as anything more than an anchor and Etem as an established NHL winger just shows how you've gone off the deep end against Granlund.

Zalewski with all his grit and physical tools just doesn't have Granlund's hockey IQ.

Gaunce is proving me wrong with his play, he looks ready as a winger. He's doing all the little things right and with his size and lethal shot it's hard to see him being sent down.

In a game where Edmonton dressed the McDavid line surrounded by the Oklahoma City Barons, guys like Dorsett and Etem who have hundreds of games of NHL experience should be decent linemates for a player like Granlund. And these are the sorts of guys he'll have to play with during the regular season if he sticks.

Zalewski has a better motor than Granlund, better skating ability, and better size and is able to drive the play forward more effectively.

Gaunce looks ready as a center. And again, he was able to shine with theoretically far worse linemates than Granlund was given.

And I'm not 'off the deep end' on Granlund. I gave him full credit for a good first few shifts. Was optimistic he'd look better ... and then he didn't, despite a huge opportunity.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Wasn't the grandlund line the one out against mcDavids line all night? I'm pretty sure it was that in a blog.

Are you suggesting that WD matched lines?

The answer is of course no. They likely went head to head a few times at least as the respective first lines of each team.

 

[Nomobo]

And I'm an objective person first and foremost, regardless of my hockey allegiances. I personally don't understand the whitewashing of bad moves under the guise of being "a fan". Being a Canuck fan didn't magically turn the Cam Neely trade into a win for us. Moves are good or bad independent of any of our fanship and I find it difficult to take seriously people who are incapable of doing the same. I've listed why I dislike the trade and no, the pleadings of a self-admitted "homer" aren't terribly likely to sway my mind. You know what will? Granlund playing like a player worth trading our leading AHL scorer for. That's why I say we'll see.

It's not objective to make your case for the trade after only seeing Granlund for a third of a season that was basically toast in January and at the same time lauding our "leading AHL" scorer. I also said I was trying to balance my views and you're putting words in my mouthy insinuating that I am one to whitewash all moves by management. In most cases there will be moves where there will be winners and losers, it's contest after all. In this case it's too early to declare for sure who wins. That's why I say we'll see.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I am no fan of Dorsett but he is more of an nhler than Jayson Megna, lol

 

[thepuckmonster]

I am no fan of Dorsett but he is more of an nhler than Jayson Megna, lol

This is a very high bar to set, shins beware.

 

[rune74]

In a game where Edmonton dressed the McDavid line surrounded by the Oklahoma City Barons, guys like Dorsett and Etem who have hundreds of games of NHL experience should be decent linemates for a player like Granlund. And these are the sorts of guys he'll have to play with during the regular season if he sticks.

Zalewski has a better motor than Granlund, better skating ability, and better size and is able to drive the play forward more effectively.

Gaunce looks ready as a center. And again, he was able to shine with theoretically far worse linemates than Granlund was given.

And I'm not 'off the deep end' on Granlund. I gave him full credit for a good first few shifts. Was optimistic he'd look better ... and then he didn't, despite a huge opportunity.

Um nope, you fed us a crap sandwich disguised as looking like you gave him a chance. I don't think he played bad at all last night, and that's not taking away from Guances game to say that.

 

[Nomobo]

Etem has played nearly 200 NHL games and was a regular for this team in the 2nd half last year.

Gaunce was able to shine with Michael Carcone and Jayson Megna as linemates.

Yeah, what's your point? Do you think Etem is desirable after what he showed last season? Gaunce is going to be a good NHL'er and Carcone is very talented, Megna I didn't notice as much.

 

[CanaFan]

It's not objective to make your case for the trade after only seeing Granlund for a third of a season that was basically toast in January and at the same time lauding our "leading AHL" scorer. I also said I was trying to balance my views and you're putting words in my mouthy insinuating that I am one to whitewash all moves by management. In most cases there will be moves where there will be winners and losers, it's contest after all. In this case it's too early to declare for sure who wins. That's why I say we'll see.

I don't need to wait years to form an opinion on Granlund. He's 23 years old, not 18. He has over 100 NHL games under his belt, not zero. He may improve but he basically is what he is at this point. A small, average skating, non-physical, non-point creating centre who is good defensively. Honestly those exist in droves in the NHL and even AHL. We could waive him tomorrow and I doubt anyone would miss him terribly. Just slot in Gaunce and move on. Or sign Sheppard to his PTO. No biggie.

 

[Nomobo]

I don't need to wait years to form an opinion on Granlund. He's 23 years old, not 18. He has over 100 NHL games under his belt, not zero. He may improve but he basically is what he is at this point. A small, average skating, non-physical, non-point creating centre who is good defensively. Honestly those exist in droves in the NHL and even AHL. We could waive him tomorrow and I doubt anyone would miss him terribly. Just slot in Gaunce and move on. Or sign Sheppard to his PTO. No biggie.

Ok, fair enough.

 

[Hit the post]

Ok, fair enough.

You do raise an important issue on giving Granlund at least a reasonable chance (something I'll agree am guilty of not giving).

My problem is, I just wish Benning had given that kind of chance on Shinkaruk (1 NHL game).

 

[MS]

Um nope, you fed us a crap sandwich disguised as looking like you gave him a chance. I don't think he played bad at all last night, and that's not taking away from Guances game to say that.

He was handed the #1 center spot, given 20+ minutes of icetime ... and after showing some jump in his first couple shifts, I can't remember a scoring chance for that line. It wasn't a good showing.

I wouldn't say he was outright 'bad'. But given the role he was given, he was disappointing and outplayed by two other centers who he's competing with for a job.

Yeah, what's your point? Do you think Etem is desirable after what he showed last season? Gaunce is going to be a good NHL'er and Carcone is very talented, Megna I didn't notice as much.

Etem was worse than Granlund. But again, theoretically those should be decent linemates and a good opportunity for Granlund to make a good impression last night. He didn't.