"Power forwards take longer to develop"

[Pyromaniac]

Is there any validity to this or is it just something that everyone likes to parrot without any justification?

Is this cliche used to indicate that power forwards peak later than other skaters or that they simply take longer to make an impact at the NHL level? It seems to me that it is used in both cases.

I can understand the first one, most players in their teens haven't hit their peak physical level. Power forwards rely more on their physical abilities than other forwards so its understandable that they might hit their peak as soon as they reach that optimum level.

What about power forward prospects though? Do they really take longer to make an impact than other forwards?

Edit: I know this is a bit of a vague thread. Even the definition of a power forward is something people don't often agree upon. In any case I am leaving the interpretation of who or what constitutes a power forward up to you.

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[Nalyd Psycho]

I don't think they peak later, most forwards peak around 27.

Power forwards are often unable to stick in a scoring line role until 23-25.

 

[TT1]

Their game requires much more stamina, so they take longer to develop. Not only do they play a physically taxing game but when youre bigger you tire out faster than smaller players.

 

[Mantis]

Milan Lucic begs to differ

 

[Community]

I don't think they peak later, most forwards peak around 27.

Power forwards are often unable to stick in a scoring line role until 23-25.

Earlier than that. It has been statistically proven that most forwards peaks are around 22-24 in terms of offensive production and most would argue that any defensive skill increase after that doesn't make up for the usually significant drop in offensive production the next few years (see Ovi, Crosby, Stamkos, etc.)


Edit: see http://www.tsn.ca/pinning-down-a-player-s-prime-performance-years-1.388514


As for this thread, I believe power forwards typically take at least another year or two to fill out and use their body size advantage effectively. By the time that occurs, most of them are significantly behind other top talents that don't need to wait and fill out to be in the NHL and are already nearing their physical prime when they are first entering the league. Powerforwards are just typically behind the curve and in order for a powerforward to be successful they need to either be elite (and jump into the NHL sooner ala Ovechkin) or develop in the minors longer which typically leaves them coming up later and making it more difficult to become a star player as they haven't been in the NHL for what should be the start of their prime.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Earlier than that. It has been statistically proven that most forwards peaks are around 22-24 in terms of offensive production and most would argue that any defensive skill increase after that doesn't make up for the usually significant drop in offensive production the next few years (see Ovi, Crosby, Stamkos, etc.)

Ovechkin at 27 lead the league in goals, one MVP and was first and second team all star.

Crosby lead the league in scoring by 17 points.

Patrick Kane, lead the league in scoring.

Jamie Benn was 26 when he lead the league in scoring.

The problem with the statistics is that the longer you are in the league, the higher the chances you'll get hurt, so injuries and other factors (Martin St. Louis being traded) skew the data.

 

[leaflover]

I think it takes longer to accumulate the mass required to become a high end power forward.
There are exceptions such as Lindros who walk right in and was immediately a force but in general it takes time.

 

[Woodhouse]

It's a taxing role. Most PWF prospects these days are drafted with size on their side, so if you're not a 19-y/o man-child with strong skating and hockey sense, you typically take the more traditional plodding development path as a PWF prospect. You can maybe skip some steps and dress sooner at the NHL level if your organization desperately needs size and/or grit in their lineup, but most that make it early still hit that wall of adjustment now that they're going up against NHL men in an expected PWF role. The bean pole types usually need summers of strength training before they can effectively tackle the wear of that role at the top levels, while others who lack the foot speed or conditioning spend their summers power skating to become less of a detriment as the speed of the game picks up with each level jump. Those aspects aren't necessarily different than with other prospects, just the reality that it isn't worth it to dress one that will get knocked off the puck easily or is too slow or winded to have a consistent positive impact.

 

[Stephen]

Not a lot of 18 year olds can come in and throw their weight around against men a decade older, so there's a physical maturity level they need to achieve before they can play that way. Secondly, I wonder if it's harder to play an offensive role and also be playing a more physically intensive style.

 

[AINEC*]

Just a couple more seasons until Tyler Biggs is ready.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The taller you are, the more long it takes to develop strength, coordination, and first three steps. That's not exclusive to "power" forwards - skilled guys in the Blake Wheeler mold will also require development time. Stats from lower levels also translate differently - a 1.0PPG big player might be a 60 pt NHL, whereas it might take a 1.5PPG regular size player to produce the NHL results. Smaller players have to "take out" ineffeftive junior skills from their repertoire whereas bigger players retain their natural physical advantage, even if they weren't explosive scorers at lower levels.

You also see a longer leash with potential power forwards than you would with, say, a Paul Byron even if Paul Byron is and will always be the better NHLer. Does anyone think a lesser, 6'3" Martin St. Louis would ever have been given up on so soon? Not a snowball's chance in hell!

 

[Semantics]

Ovechkin at 27 lead the league in goals, one MVP and was first and second team all star.

And that wasn't his peak, he peaked earlier.

Crosby lead the league in scoring by 17 points.

And that wasn't his peak, he peaked earlier.

Patrick Kane, lead the league in scoring.

I'll give you this one.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

it takes longer because the physical advantages they have against teenagers, take longer to translate to the pro's, where they need to grow into their body more. Those pimply faced kids you can overpower in juniors don't exist in the NHL, a 19-21 year old is not going to over power many full grown men

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I think the biggest issue is a mental one. PF unlike other forwards are expected to do everything.

When they aren't scoring they are meant to be driving to the net. When they aren't driving to the net they are expected to be standing in front of the net. When they aren't standing in front of the net they are expected to be demolishing people with hits. When they aren't hitting they are expected to be standing up for their teammates.

 

[Phenomenon13]

People also say Power Forwards fall apart faster cause that style of play doesn't last.


Makes it seem like there is no point in drafting a power forward with a high pick given the risks.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

People also say Power Forwards fall apart faster cause that style of play doesn't last.


Makes it seem like there is no point in drafting a power forward with a high pick given the risks.

Most power forwards drafted with a high pick are very close to NHL ready.

Getting 10+ years of a physically dominant forward that can score is a good use of a high selection.

 

[hutter]

Earlier than that. It has been statistically proven that most forwards peaks are around 22-24 in terms of offensive production and most would argue that any defensive skill increase after that doesn't make up for the usually significant drop in offensive production the next few years (see Ovi, Crosby, Stamkos, etc.)


Edit: see http://www.tsn.ca/pinning-down-a-player-s-prime-performance-years-1.388514


As for this thread, I believe power forwards typically take at least another year or two to fill out and use their body size advantage effectively. By the time that occurs, most of them are significantly behind other top talents that don't need to wait and fill out to be in the NHL and are already nearing their physical prime when they are first entering the league. Powerforwards are just typically behind the curve and in order for a powerforward to be successful they need to either be elite (and jump into the NHL sooner ala Ovechkin) or develop in the minors longer which typically leaves them coming up later and making it more difficult to become a star player as they haven't been in the NHL for what should be the start of their prime.

It has not been statistically "proven" since it is very difficult to actually prove something with statistics.

The study that showed that NHL forwards peak in scoring at 24 coincidentally had a very significant number of of players in their mid 20's during the year the dead puck era began. This is actually a ridiculous oversight on the creator's part.

In studies that log players from seasons in the 90's until now (better capturing the modern game of hockey anyway), forwards peak a little after 26 and defensemen slightly later. But if a player is not yet an impact player at 24, they statistically never will be.

 

[mouser]

Ovechkin at 27 lead the league in goals, one MVP and was first and second team all star.

Crosby lead the league in scoring by 17 points.

Patrick Kane, lead the league in scoring.

Jamie Benn was 26 when he lead the league in scoring.

The problem with the statistics is that the longer you are in the league, the higher the chances you'll get hurt, so injuries and other factors (Martin St. Louis being traded) skew the data.

You realize that's Ovechkin's career peak goal and point production came at age 21? While Crosby's peak points came at age 19 and goals at age 22? That they're still among the best players at older ages doesn't invalidate the observation that scoring production for the vast majority of forwards has historically peaked by their mid 20's.

Have Kane and Benn (age 26) had their statistically best career seasons this past year, or will they exceed them in the future? Who knows, but it's not at all impossible both might have hit their career peak scoring this past season.

(All ages are based on draft year = 18)

 

[Pyromaniac]

You realize that's Ovechkin's career peak goal and point production came at age 21? While Crosby's peak points came at age 19 and goals at age 22? That they're still among the best players at older ages doesn't invalidate the observation that scoring production for the vast majority of forwards has historically peaked by their mid 20's.

Have Kane and Benn (age 26) had their statistically best career seasons this past year, or will they exceed them in the future? Who knows, but it's not at all impossible both might have hit their career peak scoring this past season.

(All ages are based on draft year = 18)

Crosby peaked in points so early because the league was cracking down on obstruction and PPs were handed out like candy. League scoring was also much higher then. Rather than just checking their raw numbers, their ppg/gpg should be compared to the average scoring that year.

 

[hutter]

You realize that's Ovechkin's career peak goal and point production came at age 21? While Crosby's peak points came at age 19 and goals at age 22? That they're still among the best players at older ages doesn't invalidate the observation that scoring production for the vast majority of forwards has historically peaked by their mid 20's.

Have Kane and Benn (age 26) had their statistically best career seasons this past year, or will they exceed them in the future? Who knows, but it's not at all impossible both might have hit their career peak scoring this past season.

(All ages are based on draft year = 18)

The problem here actually being that Crosby and Ovechkin's peak years were both during a time of general scoring revitalization.

Also, Crosby's best scoring RATE was his age 25 season when he got totally wrecked and only played 39 games. Had he kept pace, he would've beaten his scoring from his age 20 season despite the serious downward turn in league goal totals evidencing a stingier environment.

Ovechkin has a very odd career arc.

 

[tony d]

I agree, seems like that's the sort of thing that needs to be honed out more than say being a goal scorer or playmaker.

 

[Mad Brills*]

JVR took forever.

 

[DJJones]

Make's sense to me. You have to wait until your body develops and need the experience to learn where the line is. Power Forwards by default have to live in the gray area of the rules.