Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[tucker3434]

You are almost describing what TED was.

Except Meruelo was going to build the arena himself. Hope Krause really has done his homework.

Local appetites are likely different when viewing a 30+ year old franchise that has struggled versus attracting a new franchise where everything is still hypothetical. The mystery box could be anything! Even a boat! (Vegas)

Framing it as tax breaks for businesses rather than tax increases by the citizens should make it more palatable to the voters of Forsyth County who will typically be of the "no taxes, ever" variety.

 

[dj4aces]

While some of this sounds good, I'm getting some very strong "Monorail" vibes from the folks who're trying to sell the Forsyth location as the best thing ever.



The North Point Mall proposal by Carter's group also has plans for esports and soccer facilities, which are somehow seen as a bad thing, hence why point #2 keeps mentioning how "NHL exclusive" The Gathering would be. It feels like such a weird hill to die on.

 

[sneakytitz]

The North Point Mall proposal by Carter's group also has plans for esports and soccer facilities, which are somehow seen as a bad thing, hence why point #2 keeps mentioning how "NHL exclusive" The Gathering would be. It feels like such a weird hill to die on.

The guy that runs that account is certainly an odd duck but I don't read that as him denigrating the North Point site/plan, I think he's saying that Krause and Co. have a clear, singular focus on a hockey team, which ASG never did, and that is a great thing if hockey is to come back and thrive in Georgia.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The guy that runs that account is certainly an odd duck but I don't read that as him denigrating the North Point site/plan, I think he's saying that Krause and Co. have a clear, singular focus on a hockey team, which ASG never did, and that is a great thing if hockey is to come back and thrive in Georgia.

Yeah, that's what I get from it as well. I don't think he's stating that this site is better than NPM, I think it's stating that it's a way better situation than that cluster F owning anything.

 

[dj4aces]

The guy that runs that account is certainly an odd duck but I don't read that as him denigrating the North Point site/plan, I think he's saying that Krause and Co. have a clear, singular focus on a hockey team, which ASG never did, and that is a great thing if hockey is to come back and thrive in Georgia.

While you're not necessarily wrong that this alone doesn't indicate that, we had an exchange on a previous tweet where they made clear they're against it.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

While you're not necessarily wrong that this alone doesn't indicate that, we had an exchange on a previous tweet where they made clear they're against it.

Show the tweet then? Or are we just gonna take your word for it?

 

[nhlfan79]

I think it's this tweet back-and-forth, where he took the position that soccer and e-sports aspects of the Carter/NPM plan would somehow hinder the hockey operations at that site. I guess the assumption was that the hockey ownership would be too diversified in non-hockey interests at the same time. I thought that was silly, as there's nothing to suggest that all aspects would necessarily have one common owner.

 

[tucker3434]

I think it's this tweet back-and-forth, where he took the position that soccer and e-sports aspects of the Carter/NPM plan would somehow hinder the hockey operations at that site. I guess the assumption was that the hockey ownership would be too diversified in non-hockey interests at the same time. I thought that was silly, as there's nothing to suggest that all aspects would necessarily have one common owner.

Yeah, I’m going to continue to believe that bullet point is a shot at ASG and not Carter’s group.

I don’t have much fear that the esports team will be bought and they’ll evict the hockey team.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Yeah, I’m going to continue to believe that bullet point is a shot at ASG and not Carter’s group.

I don’t have much fear that the esports team will be bought and they’ll evict the hockey team.

No I definitely see it as a shot against Anson Carter group, but referencing ASG.

Whether it's an effective shot is up to the viewer.

 

[aqib]

Well certainly, but let's do some quick math:

$900 million in property taxes over 20 years.
$140 million in sales taxes over 20 years.
$40 million in rent over 20 years, at the very least.
$40-60 million via ticket sales over 20 years, based on projections.

That ignores jobs, developments outside the property (and associated sales/property taxes), etc.

I mean that's still a substantial return on investment of $390 million, which may drop to $225 million, I'm hearing, by next Tuesday.

I get what you're saying, but remember anytime there is taxpayer money (even if its tax increments which wouldn't exist but for the development) you have to deal with the C.A.V.E. people (Citizens Against Virtually Everything). So I know they are going to say that something else would go on the property and generate property taxes and that the sales taxes would just be shifted from other things. I can just hear Neal deMause reciting those talking points

 

[sneakytitz]

"Krause said NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman expressed enthusiasm when he presented the plans to him in September, and discussions continued through the end of the year.

“In December, I met with him again, took our investment banker with us, and had a good, healthy discussion with him,” Krause said. “And he said, right before we left the room, he said, ‘Vernon, go get your deal done with the county. Bring me a binding MOU, memorandum of understanding, and I'll tell you when to start the arena.’”

https://www.appenmedia.com/forsyth/the-gathering-shares-confidence-in-bringing-nhl-to-forsyth-county/article_382aac70-e7a3-11ee-872c-9b2530e2b5fb.html

 

[Major4Boarding]

Just me, and I hate being a wet blanket, but I’m starting to get cringy the more I hear Krause expound on League dialogue.

I’m used to the old unwritten rule - the quieter you are, the more the League appreciates it.

Guess I’m just from the old school

 

[TheLegend]

Just me, and I hate being a wet blanket, but I’m starting to get cringy the more I hear Krause expound on League dialogue.

I’m used to the old unwritten rule - the quieter you are, the more the League appreciates it.

Guess I’m just from the old school

Kinda difficult not to be quiet with Ansen Carter’s group looking to get in on the market.

 

[sneakytitz]

Just me, and I hate being a wet blanket, but I’m starting to get cringy the more I hear Krause expound on League dialogue.

I’m used to the old unwritten rule - the quieter you are, the more the League appreciates it.

Guess I’m just from the old school

Could be by design? To put some pressure on Fertitta and others - hey, we may only be going to 34 for now and one guy is already saying he's already been given an expansion so if you want in, now is the time to start showing it?

 

[dj4aces]

Just me, and I hate being a wet blanket, but I’m starting to get cringy the more I hear Krause expound on League dialogue.

I’m used to the old unwritten rule - the quieter you are, the more the League appreciates it.

Guess I’m just from the old school

It's absolutely cringey, but as sneaky said... it could be by design. There's also a possibility that the league has already decided they're coming here, and simply don't care what he's saying in public.

Whether we're old school or not, the whole thing absolutely breaks with what we feel are established norms and protocols.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Could be by design? To put some pressure on Fertitta and others - hey, we may only be going to 34 for now and one guy is already saying he's already been given an expansion so if you want in, now is the time to start showing it?

I see what you're saying and wouldn't rule it out. But perhaps that method is further down that rabbit hole than I've been accustomed to. But my experiences have been:

If the League wanted to exert pressure on a market, they generally wouldn't do it through a group seeking a franchise. The League would come out with thinly (or not-so thinly) veiled references themselves... thru their own means like the All-Star Game, the May Doomsday Report, etc.

The thing is, with potential groups gushing out details (rather than the preferred "Cone of Silence") it potentially opens doors for what would be seen by the League as unrealistic expectations. Those expectations consumed by the market, as a start, such as Fanbases (existing or prospective), Local Municipalities, or other interested markets. The Long-Shot markets so to speak. And I'm sure there's caveat's in these closed-door meetings, like Krause is stating he's had, that the atmosphere of those meetings is "everything's preliminary, non-binding, and in no way do these discussions set any unrealistic expectations". Something like that

Wrapping this up - I'm set on the League seeing Atlanta and Salt Lake City as it's next two expansion markets. The "eagerness" of both markets dictates that. The infrastructure dictates that. Willing governments, new buildings planned. One group's eagerness is they made their intentions known, the City-and State level of commitment is completely sound, and they're going thru with the plans seemingly regardless of what the League says at the moment. Mr. Krause is getting too descriptive in my opinion, based on what I'm used to.

Fertitta still knows that, as of right now and the near future (3-5 years anyway), that entry into the Houston market is thru his front door. Unless another Krause-like group comes along and decides "Screw it all... we're building an arena in The Woodlands or Sugar Land!"... or something like that.

 

[aqib]

I see what you're saying and wouldn't rule it out. But perhaps that method is further down that rabbit hole than I've been accustomed to. But my experiences have been:

If the League wanted to exert pressure on a market, they generally wouldn't do it through a group seeking a franchise. The League would come out with thinly (or not-so thinly) veiled references themselves... thru their own means like the All-Star Game, the May Doomsday Report, etc.

The thing is, with potential groups gushing out details (rather than the preferred "Cone of Silence") it potentially opens doors for what would be seen by the League as unrealistic expectations. Those expectations consumed by the market, as a start, such as Fanbases (existing or prospective), Local Municipalities, or other interested markets. The Long-Shot markets so to speak. And I'm sure there's caveat's in these closed-door meetings, like Krause is stating he's had, that the atmosphere of those meetings is "everything's preliminary, non-binding, and in no way do these discussions set any unrealistic expectations". Something like that

Wrapping this up - I'm set on the League seeing Atlanta and Salt Lake City as it's next two expansion markets. The "eagerness" of both markets dictates that. The infrastructure dictates that. Willing governments, new buildings planned. One group's eagerness is they made their intentions known, the City-and State level of commitment is completely sound, and they're going thru with the plans seemingly regardless of what the League says at the moment. Mr. Krause is getting too descriptive in my opinion, based on what I'm used to.

Fertitta still knows that, as of right now and the near future (3-5 years anyway), that entry into the Houston market is thru his front door. Unless another Krause-like group comes along and decides "Screw it all... we're building an arena in The Woodlands or Sugar Land!"... or something like that.

I asked about this a while back because there is one guy on the boards here who lives in Houston. I figured that Houston is big enough to sustain 2 major league arenas but he didn't think Woodlands was an appropriate place for an arena.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Well certainly, but let's do some quick math:

$900 million in property taxes over 20 years.
$140 million in sales taxes over 20 years.
$40 million in rent over 20 years, at the very least.
$40-60 million via ticket sales over 20 years, based on projections.

That ignores jobs, developments outside the property (and associated sales/property taxes), etc.

I mean that's still a substantial return on investment of $390 million, which may drop to $225 million, I'm hearing, by next Tuesday.

$45 million in property taxes a year, that seems absurd.

 

[Major4Boarding]

I asked about this a while back because there is one guy on the boards here who lives in Houston. I figured that Houston is big enough to sustain 2 major league arenas but he didn't think Woodlands was an appropriate place for an arena.

Correct. That last part of my post above may have come out wrong, but I was exaggerating with the whole “we’ll just build another arena in the ‘burbs” scenario

The way it was explained was that another arena cannot go up in Harris County

To be honest, I’ve lost a lot of my homework on the Houston market to the point where I’d have to almost start from scratch again. But that’s a subject for another time in another thread.

 

[GKJ]

Just me, and I hate being a wet blanket, but I’m starting to get cringy the more I hear Krause expound on League dialogue.

I’m used to the old unwritten rule - the quieter you are, the more the League appreciates it.

Guess I’m just from the old school

Kinda difficult not to be quiet with Ansen Carter’s group looking to get in on the market.

Could be by design? To put some pressure on Fertitta and others - hey, we may only be going to 34 for now and one guy is already saying he's already been given an expansion so if you want in, now is the time to start showing it?

It’s definitely by design since 3 groups have done it.

 

[sneakytitz]

So it now does sound like the ask has been dropped from $390 million to $225 million, which I mentioned last week via rumors, and that will be presented at Tuesday's meeting. Again, another subtle but massive development.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

So it now does sound like the ask has been dropped from $390 million to $225 million, which I mentioned last week via rumors, and that will be presented at Tuesday's meeting. Again, another subtle but massive development.

So, the vote tomorrow is for the proposed $225 million? If that vote goes through, I wonder how long it'll be until an official NHL announcement. I'm sure it'll at least be the summer as the league won't want interference with the remaining season, but that $225 gets the construction started, but it's contingent on a team as the anchor.

 

[Golden_Jet]

So, the vote tomorrow is for the proposed $225 million? If that vote goes through, I wonder how long it'll be until an official NHL announcement. I'm sure it'll at least be the summer as the league won't want interference with the remaining season, but that $225 gets the construction started, but it's contingent on a team as the anchor.

When they decide Arizona’s fate.

 

[sneakytitz]

So, the vote tomorrow is for the proposed $225 million?

That is what I'm hearing. The Memorandum presented will be almost exactly what the approved Agreement in Principle was/is.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

When they decide Arizona’s fate.

Probably. Which should be soon.