Line Combos: Post Trade Deadline D

[The Caveman]

The big issue facing Nonis is what to do with Franson. Poulin said last week on Leaf's Lunch that they could trade Franson tomorrow if they wanted. I am not a fan of Franson, and while he racks up points, I don't see him fitting in long term. I would trade him for picks (2nd and 3rd?)

if we do trade him, we are losing a RHD (not so important), but our best shot on the PP. He is a defensive liability. I would propose replacing him with Brennan for the PP, and running 7 D, 11 Fwds (like Tampa does). RC only plays his 4th line 5 min/game anyways.

What do you think?

Dion-Gunnar
Reilly-Gleason
Gards-Ranger
Brennan (PP and spot duty)

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[hatterson]

The better thing to do with Franson is to keep him on the 3rd pairing, giving him sheltered minutes and a ton of PP time.

He's a big piece of our PP and I wouldn't want to lose that.

 

[The Caveman]

The better thing to do with Franson is to keep him on the 3rd pairing, giving him sheltered minutes and a ton of PP time.

He's a big piece of our PP and I wouldn't want to lose that.

What if Brennan can replace his shot? Ranger is better on D than Franson. We need cap space when Bolland gets back. be nice to replace those picks as well. And we are stocked with D in the Marlies. Do you want to lose Franson for nothing this summer? I don't want him signed long term considering what we have coming up.

 

[TheVision]

What of Brennan can replace his shot? Ranger is better on D than Franson. We need cap space when Bolland gets back. be nice to replace those picks as well. And we are stocked with D in the Marlies. Do you want to lose Franson for nothing this summer? I don't want him signed long term considering what we have coming up.

Same for me! With Granberg, Percy, MacWilliam, and Finn all developing nicely, where would we fit Franson long term? Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Rielly can all log big PP minutes and produce. Gunnar and Gleason give a stronger "D" presence. Franson will be holding out, or filing for arbitration. SO, do you want him here long term at bigger money, or should we see if a guy like Brennan can step in and produce with the big boys. If Granberg is ready, and he's having an awesome season in the AHL (trained with the men in Sweden as well), why not move Cody. The only thing I can see against that is, they tried that last year by signing Holzer and basically handing him the spot. And we all know what happened there.

 

[bobbyflex]

trade Franson for what though? what could we get? if it's a **** return might as well keep him till the summer

 

[TheVision]

trade Franson for what though? what could we get? if it's a **** return might as well keep him till the summer

Wonder if Sather would take him for Girardi and a conditional pick (if Girardi doesn't resign, New York's 2nd rounder)

 

[hockeyes]

At this point you keep him and hope he tightens up a bit by the playoffs. Re-evaluate in the summer but you shouldn't be dumping your #1 point producing D for scraps before the play offs.

 

[bobbyflex]

Wonder if Sather would take him for Girardi and a conditional pick (if Girardi doesn't resign, New York's 2nd rounder)

re: Girardi, at $4.0m i'm down. But anything close to $5m and a long-term deal will be a monumental mistake. The type of game he plays his body is already showing signs of breaking down. He's not the d-man he once was and will only slow down as time goes on. I'm not 100% sold on him for the future

 

[pheasant]

Wonder if Sather would take him for Girardi and a conditional pick (if Girardi doesn't resign, New York's 2nd rounder)

You've got it the wrong way around. We would have to add to Franson, and add a lot.

But man, would I love Girardi on this team.

 

[tmlfan98]

The better thing to do with Franson is to keep him on the 3rd pairing, giving him sheltered minutes and a ton of PP time.

He's a big piece of our PP and I wouldn't want to lose that.

I came here to say exactly this. Franson is averaging over 21 mins a game right now which is WAYYY too much for someone that sucks as bad as he does defensively.

Last year Franson only averaged around 19 mins a game, played on the third pairing and was our pp specialist. This worked out for him. If we go back to using him like we did last year, the results will be better for him.

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gleason-Rielly
Gardiner-Franson

would work perfectly.

 

[TheVision]

You've got it the wrong way around. We would have to add to Franson, and add a lot.

But man, would I love Girardi on this team.

Not sure you'd have to add much considering Girardi's UFA status. Franson would fit in on the Ranger's PP. If it's a small add, I'd still look at it.

And yes, bobbyflex, I hear your trepidations over Girardi's long term health and a big contract for him. If you could keep it below 5M, why not though. He's the type of Dman this team has needed for so long.

 

[hatterson]

What if Brennan can replace his shot? Ranger is better on D than Franson. We need cap space when Bolland gets back. be nice to replace those picks as well. And we are stocked with D in the Marlies. Do you want to lose Franson for nothing this summer? I don't want him signed long term considering what we have coming up.

That's a big if for a 24 year old with only 40 NHL games under his belt and only 4 powerplay points.

Franson has more PP assists than anyone else on the team, by a decent margin. Brennan might be able to replace that in a year or two, but to ask him to do it now is questionable.

I'd rather find other ways of dealing with our cap space issues, possibly trading Kulemin since I just don't see him back next year (unfortunately)

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think I sit in a slim minority that would keep him. His game with some slight development changes over maybe another two years gives you a solid player. He tries to be to cute right now and needs to make better reads. That's what consistently costs him at this point.

There is good points in his game that more than equals his mistakes. He can do the needed changes just like he did after a poor start with the leafs. I remember him being away worse a couple years ago.

He at present is top 10 in the league for powerplay points by defensemen. He needs to clean up his 5 on 5 play and you have yourself a point producing,big body, heavy on the hits and finally good defensively.

It is poor decision or taking to much time to make then and rushing plays. When he gathers up a little more poise we have a good player. There is not much wrong that has not plagued most defensemen that ever played in the NHL.

I can live with a couple more development years with him.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The big issue facing Nonis is what to do with Franson. Poulin said last week on Leaf's Lunch that they could trade Franson tomorrow if they wanted. I am not a fan of Franson, and while he racks up points, I don't see him fitting in long term. I would trade him for picks (2nd and 3rd?)

if we do trade him, we are losing a RHD (not so important), but our best shot on the PP. He is a defensive liability. I would propose replacing him with Brennan for the PP, and running 7 D, 11 Fwds (like Tampa does). RC only plays his 4th line 5 min/game anyways.

What do you think?

Dion-Gunnar
Reilly-Gleason
Gards-Ranger
Brennan (PP and spot duty)

Breaking up Gardiner, Reilly pairing during the regular season is not necessary. The playoffs might be different but they still have 25 or so games to click better as a defensive pair. I enjoy watching a future top powerplay pair learn the game together and really,really like what dividends it might pay down the road.

Ranger replaced by Brennan would be something that could happen.

 

[TheVision]

I think I sit in a slim minority that would keep him. His game with some slight development changes over maybe another two years gives you a solid player. He tries to be to cute right now and needs to make better reads. That's what consistently costs him at this point.

There is good points in his game that more than equals his mistakes. He can do the needed changes just like he did after a poor start with the leafs. I remember him being away worse a couple years ago.

He at present is top 10 in the league for powerplay points by defensemen. He needs to clean up his 5 on 5 play and you have yourself a point producing,big body, heavy on the hits and finally good defensively.

It is poor decision or taking to much time to make then and rushing plays. When he gathers up a little more poise we have a good player. There is not much wrong that has not plagued most defensemen that ever played in the NHL.

I can live with a couple more development years with him.

Only problem with that: His contract demands! He has held out 2 years in a row, and this will be his final as an RFA. How much are you willing to pay a guy who will be 27 before next season. He won't want a 2-3yr contract.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Only problem with that: His contract demands! He has held out 2 years in a row, and this will be his final as an RFA. How much are you willing to pay a guy who will be 27 before next season. He won't want a 2-3yr contract.

Strictly a player on the ice evaluation by me there. Contract negotiations are a royal pain for me personally. We never know what goes on in them negotiations.

 

[TheVision]

Strictly a player on the ice evaluation by me there. Contract negotiations are a royal pain for me personally. We never know what goes on in them negotiations.

But in the case of Cody Franson, it's a very real issue. He will be 27 and is entering his prime. 2 more years of development? he may be behind more guys on the depth chart by then; may not as well. But the question is: Do they want to commit long term to Cody? I truly believe what you see is what you get with him now. I personally don't see a whole bunch of improvements coming for him myself. I'd rather flip him for a more Veteran Defensive guy if we could.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Leafs aren't a serious contender and can't be getting into bidding wars for veteran Dmen. Look at the price it took for soon to be out of the league guys like Douglas Murray and Pavel Kubina. Do we really want the Leafs giving up more futures?

I'm not a fan of Franson and never have been but unless Nonis gets blown away with an offer for him we should keep him for the rest of the year.

Franson is simply being asked to do more then he is capable of this year. If he was being used against lesser competition liked last year he'd look a lot better. However, I'd rather have Franson getting exposed then it be Rielly or Gardiner getting exposed and potentially hurting their development.

Keep Franson and Ranger for that. Then hope one of them gets hot.

We just moved out Fraser which was a smart move so AHLer like Brennan, Holzer, Percy, Granberg are all 1 spot closer in the depth chart to seeing some NHL minutes if injuries strike.

 

[The Caveman]

I can see Randy playing Reilly with Gleason, as he did last night.

That leaves Gards and Franson together as third pairing. That is a scary thought with our two worst Defensive D together.

There is no doubt that trading him would leave us with a slight hole in our power play - But Brennan has a shot and if he played very protected minutes, he might be able to fill in.

Defensively we would be better off with Ranger. I would rather see Ranger-Gards as a third pairing. Brennan plays PP and after that, we 'll see. And by playing 11 Fwds, we could have McClem and Bodie (or Ashton or Orr) and give another one of our Fwds more ice time and have a 4th line that can contribute more than 5 min/game.

 

[Shaun_W_W]

If we don't trade him for an upgrade I don't see why we move him before the offseason. Unless someone offers us something awesome (1st round pick, great prospect, etc)

 

[frankthetank91]

Yep i'd rather keep Franson for the playoff push. Ranger our 7th. Brennan ready to be called up in case of injury.

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gleason-Rielly
Gardiner-Franson
Ranger

 

[Wafflewhipper]

But in the case of Cody Franson, it's a very real issue. He will be 27 and is entering his prime. 2 more years of development? he may be behind more guys on the depth chart by then; may not as well. But the question is: Do they want to commit long term to Cody? I truly believe what you see is what you get with him now. I personally don't see a whole bunch of improvements coming for him myself. I'd rather flip him for a more Veteran Defensive guy if we could.

I got over on the Fraser trade thread there for awhile.

You could be right and he is fully developed as a 27 year old defenseman. That's my opinion because of only one thing though. his foot speed is not going to improve much as he ages. His positioning and decision making would have to make up for his lack of jump on his first few strides.

Franson skates well once he is going,its his initial jump that needs improving. His skating balance at times is clumsy and this stuff factors in. A lot of defensive defensemen don't skate well but are exceptional positionally.

That evaluation by me might be nit picking to agree with your opinion but coaches and G.M's must surely evaluate all the same things. He is not a quick,defensive gem but he in fairness needs to be calculated on what he brings and what he doesn't against each other.

He brings more positives at present. You can teach zone coverage but not so much that shot and powerplay prowess he has. If he simply told himself he will not pinch on anything even close in all zones his game improves. That's how easy it is if he were to just make that simple mental note to himself before every game.

That's why I would keep him around.

 

[calcal798]

The better thing to do with Franson is to keep him on the 3rd pairing, giving him sheltered minutes and a ton of PP time.

He's a big piece of our PP and I wouldn't want to lose that.

then someone better tell Carlyle to stop playing him on the PK and 5v5

 

[Igy]

To trade Franson we should be bringing in another RHD to replace him either in the initial trade or a separate trade afterwards. I do not feel comfortable trading him away for a pick or a position that is not on D.

 

[The Caveman]

Yep i'd rather keep Franson for the playoff push. Ranger our 7th. Brennan ready to be called up in case of injury.

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gleason-Rielly
Gardiner-Franson
Ranger

The might just cost us a playoff spot.