Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part III

[detredWINgs]

We need a puck moving, offensive defenseman.

Alex Edler is 15th in relative corsi among all d-men 5v4.
He averages 3.14 points/60 mins 5v4 on an offensively inept Canucks team (24th goals per game, 26th power play goals).

He's already been more or less a 50 point d-man in the NHL. He just has the great misfortune of having to play for one of the most over-rated coaches in NHL history in John Tortorella. Hopefully Torts throws him under the bus which is a Torts trademark d-bag move and Edler demands a trade.

Dan Girardi? His career high point total is 31 points. He would definitely improve our lackluster defense however he doesn't fill the glaring need that Edler would fill.

I feel the same way about Tortorella and it wouldn't surprise me if Tortorella is a big reason for Edler's numbers. Edler is only 27 - up until this season, he'd spent his entire NHL tenure under Vigneault. Correlation isn't causation of course, but its as good a reason as any for this season being an aberration for Edler thus far.

With that said, I'm not huge on Edler. I worry about his back problems given the Wings' questionable training staff, but more importantly, I wonder if he could replicate his offensive success under Babcock. The only guy who has really seemed to take off (or rather keep pace) under Babcock has been Alfredsson.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I'm warning you all. Girardi is a product of playing with McDonagh and Staal. He's not the defenseman you think he is.

you're absolutely correct abut this

HUGE waste of money

 

[Run the Jewels]

I feel the same way about Tortorella and it wouldn't surprise me if Tortorella is a big reason for Edler's numbers. Edler is only 27 - up until this season, he'd spent his entire NHL tenure under Vigneault. Correlation isn't causation of course, but its as good a reason as any for this season being an aberration for Edler thus far.

With that said, I'm not huge on Edler. I worry about his back problems given the Wings' questionable training staff, but more importantly, I wonder if he could replicate his offensive success under Babcock. The only guy who has really seemed to take off (or rather keep pace) under Babcock has been Alfredsson.

Mathieu Schneider: two 50+ points seasons under Babcock.
Brian Rafalski: three 50+ point seasons under Babcock (one was 48 so close enough)

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Tom Gilbert and Brad Boyes. There's your fix. Cheap rentals that fit the team like a glove. Won't cost anything of value.

 

[barnztormre]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

 

[AD1066]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

Seems like we're giving up a lot there -- do we really need to get a rental and push for a Cup this year? I would hate to let both Mrazek and Jurco go.

 

[SimplySolace]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

No way am I giving up Jurco AND Mrazek to only get Cammy and Backlund. I don't want to trade them to begin with.. and if they were traded it better be in a package for a damn #1 D, top forward, or top prospect.

 

[Frk It]

Seems like we're giving up a lot there -- do we really need to get a rental and push for a Cup this year? I would hate to let both Mrazek and Jurco go.

Backlund would not be a rental at all. And would help fill one of our biggest needs.

 

[Crymson]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

Uhh, hell no. Mrazek will be goaltender 1B next season, putting into place the first solid 1A/1B tandem the Wings will have had since Osgood and Hasek in 2007-2008. Jurco will be a stud when he gets older, Quincey is, sadly, still important to the defense and has been playing quite well lately, and this summer's draft will be fairly deep.

This package ought to fetch us a star player, but instead we'd get a defensively-suspect rental forward who hasn't had a notable season since 2009-2010, and an additional forward who has good potential but, at age 24, has scored only 91 points in 226 NHL games. No, nada, nay. Not happening. This would be the NHL ripoff of the decade thus far, and it wouldn't even address the Wings' greatest need: a solid, top-pairing defenseman.

Mathieu Schneider: two 50+ points seasons under Babcock.
Brian Rafalski: three 50+ point seasons under Babcock (one was 48 so close enough)

Rafalski and Schneider were (sans Schneider's ill-advised final season) effective offensively in every system they played in. For Schneider, this was eight teams; for Rafalski, it was only two, but the Wings and the Devils differed hugely in play style. More, though the two of them were not markedly solid defensively, each was nevertheless quite a bit better than Edler in that regard.

Any player whose production takes a precipitous nosedive as the result of a new system cannot, in my opinion, be called a standout player. Edler isn't a viable #1 defenseman. Kronwall is his superior in every respect. And the last thing we need is to blow assets on yet another defenseman who can't play defense, let alone yet another leftie on the blue line.

 

[jaster]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

Even as a UM guy and Cammalleri fan, I'd definitely have to say no to this. A 1st and 2 of our top-3 prospects is just way too much to give up for a rental and center we don't really need (but whom I do like).

 

[Crymson]

We need a puck moving, offensive defenseman.

Edler is by no means worth the price Gillis is sure to demand.

I'm warning you all. Girardi is a product of playing with McDonagh and Staal. He's not the defenseman you think he is.

Aye. A reputable hockey blog rated him least valuable player of the 2013 season. He plays physically and he's big, yes, but his proneness to defensive brainfarts reminds one of Quincey. He can't reliably play top minutes.

He's certainly not as good as people are making him out to be. He's essentially a right-handed Brad Stuart in his prime and people want to throw $6M at him.

Brad Stuart in his prime was substantially better than Girardi is now. Stuart made few mistakes and was exceptionally tough around the net. I considered him generally underrated when he was playing here. He still plays quite well; Sharks fans love the guy.

With the huge salaries that UFA defensemen will demand, and the general dearth of them on the market this summer to begin with, I think that Ouellet (more likely) or Marchenko (less likely) will come up to fill the shutdown role.

 

[SoupNazi]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

I easily pass. Mrazek, Jurco, and 1st are not pieces I am interested in moving for that package.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

gilles to be fair dosent set the price on edler or any player, the market does.

vancouver will make a move and the main return will be a good prospect and a pick, whether its edler, bieksa, kesler or burrows who is moved.

no team will do a straight up one for one for any of those guys nor sell their future

 

[SoupNazi]

gilles to be fair dosent set the price on edler or any player, the market does.

Gillis can ask for a certain package and not move Edler if he doesn't get it.

 

[jaster]

Gillis can ask for a certain package and not move Edler if he doesn't get it.

Exactly. Gillis absolutely sets the price on Edler. The market sets the price that will be accepted.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Rafalski and Schneider were (sans Schneider's ill-advised final season) effective offensively in every system they played in. For Schneider, this was eight teams; for Rafalski, it was only two, but the Wings and the Devils differed hugely in play style. More, though the two of them were not markedly solid defensively, each was nevertheless quite a bit better than Edler in that regard.

Any player whose production takes a precipitous nosedive as the result of a new system cannot, in my opinion, be called a standout player. Edler isn't a viable #1 defenseman. Kronwall is his superior in every respect. And the last thing we need is to blow assets on yet another defenseman who can't play defense, let alone yet another leftie on the blue line.

That's a very weird rationale. Edler averaged 0.65 PPG as a 24 year old! He averaged 0.60 as a 25 year old when the Canucks were in their prime before the wheels fell off. His numbers are depressed by the general suck that is the Vancouver franchise over the past couple seasons.

Schneider had a gawd awful plus minus in 1995-96. How is that any different from Edler on this Canucks team Torts is running into the ground? Rafalski didn't make it to the NHL until he was 26 and played on a very good New Jersey team so his number were never depressed the way Edler's have been. Do you honestly think either Schneider or Rafalski are defensive defensemen? They had very long careers due to their contributions on offense.

Edler's a guy just entering his prime who you could probably get for a good price given the tire fire the Canucks have become. I hope Holland at least inquires about what it would cost to bring over Edler. He would be a consistent 50+ point producer in Detroit. Defensive defensemen are a dime a dozen, it's the offensive defensemen who are difficult if not impossible to acquire.

I have to wonder how much people on HF Boards really follow other teams given how they have poo-pooed trades for Zach Bogosian and Jay Bouwmeester, or guaranteeing Justin Schultz a roster spot when he was a free agent.

 

[Ricelund]

Any player whose production takes a precipitous nosedive as the result of a new system cannot, in my opinion, be called a standout player. Edler isn't a viable #1 defenseman. Kronwall is his superior in every respect. And the last thing we need is to blow assets on yet another defenseman who can't play defense, let alone yet another leftie on the blue line.

So are the Sedin twins not standout players?

 

[Ricelund]

I have to wonder how much people on HF Boards really follow other teams given how they have poo-pooed trades for Zach Bogosian and Jay Bouwmeester, or guaranteeing Justin Schultz a roster spot when he was a free agent.

Incidentally, Crymson was running anti-Bouwmeester train -- denying that the Wings had any interest in him and maintaining that Bouwmeester is a garbage player just prior to St. Louis trading for him last year. He's going to put up almost 50 points this year as St. Louis' number two.

 

[SimplySolace]

Incidentally, Crymson was running anti-Bouwmeester train -- denying that the Wings had any interest in him and maintaining that Bouwmeester is a garbage player just prior to St. Louis trading for him last year. He's going to put up almost 50 points this year as St. Louis' number two.

I'm sure being paired with Pietranglo, getting almost 1,400 PP minutes, and being on a top 3 team in the league has nothing to do with it.

 

[Ricelund]

I'm sure being paired with Pietranglo, getting almost 1,400 PP minutes, and being on a top 3 team in the league has nothing to do with it.

He'd be Detroit's second-best defenseman, easily.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Backlund would not be a rental at all. And would help fill one of our biggest needs.

Second line center? Bearing in mind that his is the first season he's really produced, and he's never done it on a good team.

That's a pretty rough price for what the Wings get back. I think we could just trade for Backlund and get him cheaper if he's who we want.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Here's a completely random one I thought of driving to work listening to CGY-PHI:

To DET
Mike Cammaleri (rental)
Mikael Backlund ($1.5 hit, RFA 2015, Swede)

To CGY:
Petr Mrazek (position of dire need)
Kyle Quincey (salary dump)
Jordin Tootoo (ditto)
Tomas Jurco
2014 1st
Conditional pick if we resign Cam

I know C isn't our most dire need but I love Backlund. Thoughts? Does Cam waive the NTC to come back to Michigan?

Am I missing Monahan's involvement here.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Gillis can ask for a certain package and not move Edler if he doesn't get it.

of course, but under the assumption gilles is going to move somebody, edler or whoevers value is dictated by those who make offers

just like players, girardi dosent set his price tag the market does, alk he can do is decide what ge wants to accept, where and when

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Teams on the bubble stand to gain the most utility out of an acquisition. I seriously hope Holland is planning on making a trade. We're literally on the bubble.

 

[Frk It]

Second line center? Bearing in mind that his is the first season he's really produced, and he's never done it on a good team.

That's a pretty rough price for what the Wings get back. I think we could just trade for Backlund and get him cheaper if he's who we want.

1.) I never said I think the trade is worth the suggested package on our end. So I agree with your last point.
2.) Biggest need is either a young top 6 center, or a young guy that is trending towards becoming a top 6 center. At least IMO. Not sure if Backlund's that guy, but he's closer to being there than Sheahan or Jarnkrok is.

I see no need in acquiring Camalleri whatsoever. But based on the fact that Backlund was included, I said I don't think we're just trading for "rental" players.