Possible return of the Quebec Nordiques?

[Troy McClure]

It was just in response to someone who tried to convince me that southern states were as good places as any for hockey teams...

Consider the number of teams moving or being expanded south as evidence to show that southern states are good places to move teams.

 

[AdmiralPred]

It was just in response to someone who tried to convince me that southern states were as good places as any for hockey teams...

And why aren't they as good a place as any? Because, generally, Canadians are more into hockey than people in the U.S.?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I think in a lot of southern cities, Hockey is like the flavor of the month...

Then why is it now that in cities like Raleigh, Atlanta, hell, even my hometown of Columbia, South Carolina which only has an ECHL team, you're seeing a rise in junior teams? For instance, last year the Hurricanes sponsored a team to enter the Quebec International Pee Wee Hockey Tournament that saw some 80 kids from North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia try out. Meanwhile teams from Atlanta, Miami, and Reston, VA were also in the tournament. For this season's tournament, all those teams, save the Reston, VA team are returning and a team from Montgomery, Alabama is going to attend. If it's a flavor of the month, why is it that many Southern colleges (from personal knowledge, Clemson, University of South Carolina, North Carolina State University, University of North Carolina, and Duke) all have club level teams? Simple. Given a generation, the South will have a fanbase that came seemingly out of nowhere.

The only question is whether or not bigoted numbskulls living in our friendly neighbor to the north will continue to trot out the same tired arguments in a generation.

 

[jester099]

And why aren't they as good a place as any? Because, generally, Canadians are more into hockey than people in the U.S.?

Yeah, I'm sure you can expect more attendence in markets like QC, EDM, CAL, WIN than in markets like Miami.

 

[jester099]

Then why is it now that in cities like Raleigh, Atlanta, hell, even my hometown of Columbia, South Carolina which only has an ECHL team, you're seeing a rise in junior teams? For instance, last year the Hurricanes sponsored a team to enter the Quebec International Pee Wee Hockey Tournament that saw some 80 kids from North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia try out. Meanwhile teams from Atlanta, Miami, and Reston, VA were also in the tournament. For this season's tournament, all those teams, save the Reston, VA team are returning and a team from Montgomery, Alabama is going to attend. If it's a flavor of the month, why is it that many Southern colleges (from personal knowledge, Clemson, University of South Carolina, North Carolina State University, University of North Carolina, and Duke) all have club level teams? Simple. Given a generation, the South will have a fanbase that came seemingly out of nowhere.

The only question is whether or not bigoted numbskulls living in our friendly neighbor to the north will continue to trot out the same tired arguments in a generation.

It's nice that hockey is gaining in popularity, but I think what we see right now in Florida, with the low attendance and everything, clearly point to the fact that they won't bother to go see a team that doesn't win.

You wouldn't have this problem in cities like EDM, CAL, WIN and QC. They've shown in the past that they would go see their team even when they are strugling.

It's not a shame to like hockey less then canadiens. It's not an insult to have people that are less passionate about hockey than people from QC or Winnipeg, Edmonton or Calgary...

 

[Sotnos]

An average of 15,080

That's ONE YEAR, and therefore doesn't prove squat. The #s are even worse for Winnipeg. Thank you for proving my point.

Attendance wasn't why the Nordiques left.

I know very well why the Nordiques left.

What other facts do you guys need? Games were sold out when the team was a disaster ... I think you guys from the South are the ones being emotional.

If we are, it's only because people like you continually attack us.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Anti-American stupidity?

This has nothing to do with racism and anti-americanism. This has to do with the fact that some of the cities where the NHL decided to move in the last 10 years don't have a clue about hockey, and while it is not impossible, selling the sport to those places has been and wil be extremely hard.

Couldn't you say the same idea about introducing soccer to Scandanavia?

"They couldn't know anything about soccer, they're vIkInGz yO!"

Soccer has flourished in non-traditional areas. Why not give hockey a try?

 

[Sotnos]

You wouldn't have this problem in cities like EDM, CAL, WIN and QC. They've shown in the past that they would go see their team even when they are strugling.

You need to actually LOOK at the stats your buddy up above posted, and you will see that is clearly not the case, moreso in Winnipeg than in Quebec.

 

[AdmiralPred]

Yeah, I'm sure you can expect more attendence in markets like QC, EDM, CAL, WIN than in markets like Miami.

Possibly, but referring to attendance figures alone isn't going to answer the question for me.

 

[Sotnos]

The only question is whether or not bigoted numbskulls living in our friendly neighbor to the north will continue to trot out the same tired arguments in a generation.

Well put.

 

[jester099]

Consider the number of teams moving or being expanded south as evidence to show that southern states are good places to move teams.

We'll see how well these teams fare...

Obviously, with teams going back to Colorado and Minnesota, it's not because they move that it was necessarily a good decision to move them in the first place...

I look 10 years down the road, and I think there's a better chance of seeing a team in QC than the Panthers still beeing in Florida... But I guess time will tell...

This is just speculation from my part. And one's opinion is as good as mine... I think it's not the best way to ignore a market where a team can compete and everybody is crazy about the product. With the new economic, the market of QC and Winnipeg just became viable...

Time will tell how things will develop...

 

[PEli*]

Nothing really. I just like throwing it out there to inform people that there is a hockey presence in Texas. I'm not claiming hockey is more popular in Texas than Canada, but it is more popular than most Canadians realise. It's not laughable though because it's true.

I wouldn't waste my time with people ignorant enough to believe hockey isn't growing in the south. Most know that despite the slow start, things are really catching on in a good way. Nobody should care if the quality is there or not. It's more the fact that there is a presence. Agreed.

Every team depends on local investors not as direct part owners but as people to buy up box suites, buy up the expensive seats near the glass, and to buy lots of advertising. Bigger markets can charge more for all of those things. That's where the local investors come in.

I agree. But local investors quickly lose interest when the community does. Nobody seems to understand that local investors won't invest if the locals themselves don't care. And the locals won't care after four or five straight basements years. As proven in a number of markets thus far.

I won't knock the south. You'll never see me enter a thread like this to take away from fans in the south. They deserve teams as much as anybody else. I'm just confused as to why the NHL would continue to expand in an already untested market. Despite pockets of success with southern expansion teams, we're still seeing the building of fanbases in other areas. I'd like to see a team back in Winnipeg or QC before Portland/Houston for the simple fact that with the new NHL, teams in the two cities would have a great chance of succeeding and earning back the loyalty of fans.

 

[Transported Upstater]

That's ONE YEAR, and therefore doesn't prove squat. The #s are even worse for Winnipeg. Thank you for proving my point.

I know very well why the Nordiques left.




If we are, it's only because people like you continually attack us.

That's right.

No one has a problem with "Quebec should have an NHL team."

We do have a problem with "Quebec should have an NHL team because Nashville is filled with stupid knee-slapping honkys who go shirtless all the time while watching NASCAR in their trailer."



I cannot tell everyone the amount of times I've tried to defend an area that I've been in for a mere 3 ****ing months. I'm new here as well. I'm giving the Sun Belt a chance. SO SHOULD ALL OF YOU!

 

[Transported Upstater]

I wouldn't waste my time with people ignorant enough to believe hockey isn't growing in the south. Most know that despite the slow start, things are really catching on in a good way. Nobody should care if the quality is there or not. It's more the fact that there is a presence. Agreed.



I agree. But local investors quickly lose interest when the community does. Nobody seems to understand that local investors won't invest if the locals themselves don't care. And the locals won't care after four or five straight basements years. As proven in a number of markets thus far.

I won't knock the south. You'll never see me enter a thread like this to take away from fans in the south. They deserve teams as much as anybody else. I'm just confused as to why the NHL would continue to expand in an already untested market. Despite pockets of success with southern expansion teams, we're still seeing the building of fanbases in other areas. I'd like to see a team back in Winnipeg or QC before Portland/Houston for the simple fact that with the new NHL, teams in the two cities would have a great chance of succeeding and earning back the loyalty of fans.

Don't worry, you are definitely not one of the ones we're retaliating against.

And people (not you PEli) need to realize how complicated this matter of moving a team is.

 

[Sotnos]

I'm just confused as to why the NHL would continue to expand in an already untested market.

I'd guess the only reason they'd want to do so would be due to relocation patterns from the north to areas of the south/south-west. In other words, a lot of people from more traditional hockey areas moving to non-traditional ones.

 

[jester099]

Possibly, but referring to attendance figures alone isn't going to answer the question for me.

That's all I'm talking about...

And in the end, business are important, but if the people don't care, the business won't keep the team afloat.

The businesses are their to please clients... Montreal is not a small city, but when the people had enough of the situation and stopped attending the baseball games, the businesses left and stopped buying tickets...

Again, time will tell, but I think they'll have trouble keeping teams like the Panthers in there current location, no matter how big the city is...

Hockey is just so low in the food chain, people would rather see truck races... It's their choices, and I respect it, but I don't think a hockey franchise can flourish under those conditions...

 

[heywood*]

the next city to get a team will be houston.

houston has a fine history in hockey and is somewhat an international city. it's also a tremendous live gate/ corporate ticket market. and it has the best stadium around.

bank on it- it will be houston.

 

[jester099]

the next city to get a team will be houston.

houston has a fine history in hockey and is somewhat an international city. it's also a tremendous live gate/ corporate ticket market. and it has the best stadium around.

bank on it- it will be houston.

We can try to guess which team would be awarded expansions, but I think it's pretty clear the next things we'll see will be teams that are bought, then moved...

Pretty hard to guess who will buy them and to move them where...

Houston is one possibility, but there are others...

 

[Troy McClure]

I'm just confused as to why the NHL would continue to expand in an already untested market.

I wonder why the NHL hasn't taken on a bigger role in expanding hockey in these expansion markets. They've left it almost totally up to each individual team. The Stars have had success with the model of getting kids into playing by building rinks and making hockey available and affordable. The NHL should be the ones taking this lead.

 

[Timmy]

I cannot tell everyone the amount of times I've tried to defend an area that I've been in for a mere 3 ****ing months. I'm new here as well. I'm giving the Sun Belt a chance. SO SHOULD ALL OF YOU!

Do you still keep one shirt for special occasions?

 

[baston]

Quebec had more than one 15 000 avg. attendance season and attendance never went under 13 000, I'm pretty sure about that one.

In the first place, this is not a rant about the South getting expansion teams. It's against those people that say that Quebec or Winnipeg will not have a team because economical growth is bigger in cities like Houston or Kansas City.

What I am telling you guys is that the hockey crowd does not exist at first in some southern cities while it's huge up here.

Yes, you can try to develop new, unusual markets in the South, and if it works, it is great for the game. How could anyone be against the Dallas example?

But, as long as I am concerned, it does make sense to move a team where the sport is already a religion and where you know that almost every single game will be sold out.

Anyways, this is a sensitive subject and I can surely understand that some of you guys are upset when stupid canucks like me tell you guys that cities like Quebec or Winnipeg deserve more an NHL team than Houston. We all love hockey and, of course, we'd rather see teams move in our region, or, in my case, my city.

 

[HansH]

The issue isn't that Winninpeg and QC don't "deserve" NHL teams -- we're explaining to the Maple-Leaf waving, flag-draped Canadians the economic realities of why they won't be the next cities to get relocated teams... and what we get in response is "nyah nyah nyah, I can't HEEEEARRRR you because Canada's hockey knowledge is 1337 yo".

The economics of the situation (a relocated team, a ready-made arena with suitable capacity, and the potential to make money) dictate that Winnipeg is #4 on the relocation list (#5 if and when QC were to ever get a suitably sized arena), and QC is completely and totally out of the running until they get an arena... and then they'll still have missed out on opportunities #1 and #2 -- because by then, any owner selling or moving will have taken the opportunities offered by the already-built arena in Houston, and the arena in KC that will be built several years before the first layer of ice could be dreamed of in QC. Portland, I'm iffy on -- Allen has been really quiet of late, and the Rose Garden might be a good facility, but the arena ownership/lease situation still strikes me as a bit hinky. But with brand-new arenas and motivated interest, Houston and KC, with their larger capacities and corporate bases, will beat Winnipeg hands down, every single time, because it is GUARANTEED that a team there will be in the bottom third in the league in attendance.

IF, by some thunderstroke, no team has relocated by the time a mythical QC arena were to be constructed, then that situation could be revisited... but not UNTIL THEN.

You don't have to like it. You can curse Bettman and Southern expansion all you like. But these are simple, cold, hard, economic facts. Alexander is not going to buy a team to put in Winnipeg. Anschutz is not going to enable Baldwin or some other owner to buy a team and put them in QC.

How much clearer can it be made to you people? Money talks. Period. And right now, it's promises and dreams in QC, and an impossibility in Winnipeg. Within five years, one or both of KC and Houston will have teams -- and unless both of them already have them, Winnipeg will still be stuck with the AHL.

 

[Troy McClure]

HansH should cut and paste that in every single relocation thread. Well put.

I looked at that new arena in Winnipeg, and there's no way the Pens leave a city because they won't build an arena to move in to what would still be a small facility. Yes, it's a beautiful minor league arena (seats 15,015 for hockey with 46 luxury suites), but it doesn't compare at all to the Sprint Center being built in KC (seats 17,104 for hockey with 72 luxury suites) or the Houston Toyota Center (seats 17,800 for hockey with 79 luxury suites).

 

[calgarylen13]

HansH should cut and paste that in every single relocation thread. Well put.

I looked at that new arena in Winnipeg, and there's no way the Pens leave a city because they won't build an arena to move in to what would still be a small facility. Yes, it's a beautiful minor league arena (seats 15,015 for hockey with 46 luxury suites), but it doesn't compare at all to the Sprint Center being built in KC (seats 17,104 for hockey with 72 luxury suites) or the Houston Toyota Center (seats 17,800 for hockey with 79 luxury suites).

Unfortunately you're right...I so much want to see the return of the Nordiques, or the Jets, but the reality is that money hungry NHL owners will move to where the money is, and that is in Houston or Kansas City It sucks to say it IMO, but there is little chance we'll be seeing the Quebec Nordiques once Pittsburgh moves

 

[Tokyo Bucks]

Before 1993, you could only go ice skating at about 3 places. Finding a league to play hockey was tough. Now, every suburban high school has a hockey team. All the local colleges have club hockey. There are 6 Stars owned ice complexes around the Metroplex with 5 or six other ice rinks owned by other people. Between the ice league and inline leagues, you have a whole lot of people of all ages playing hockey that wouldn't have had the Stars not moved there.

What you and others like you don't get is that this is a long term investment for the NHL. They don't care that the 50 somethings in a football town don't watch hockey, but they do care that thousands and thousands of kids do care and are playing. There are more pro hockey teams in Texas than all of Canada, so spare me your ignorant BS.

It's great to hear about how hockey is taking a foothold in Dallas as a solid sport for the region. I'm guessing the Stars organization has a lot to do with this, especially with building arena complexes.

Are other teams in non-traditional hockey markets doing something similar, or is Dallas an anomally?

PS. 1/10 of Houston's population would probably be economically equal to the entire QC population. NHL needs 36 teams for there to be teams in QC and the Peg. That's too bad, I really liked the Nords, they were a fun team to watch, and the fans passionate.