Points vs Categories (both H2H)

[Pasha71]

I've been playing in (and running) leagues with categories forever (well, since 2000). Recently, though, I've been thinking of playing H2H points. The plus is obvious: it's much easier to figure out every player's absolute value (until recently, I pretty much used points-per-game for categories' leagues, but now we added hits and blocks, and it's much harder to figure out the correct formula).

But there is also an obvious minus: when you play categories, no matter how badly you're losing by the end of the week, there are at least 2-3 categories you can still fight for on Sunday. But if I play points, it's quite possible I will be so much behind by Friday that the weekend won't be interesting at all.

Which is why I would prefer to play points only if a game last 2-3 days, not a whole week. After all, real teams play 2-4 games per week, not 1, right?

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[rangerssharks414]

There are definitely pros and cons to both. It's a lot more difficult to come back in H2H points leagues than category H2H leagues. But like you said, it's easier to differentiate between different players and their value in H2H points leagues.

Most of my leagues are H2H categories. I am in a couple of H2H points leagues. I prefer H2H categories, but I don't mind H2H points.

If you do decide to do H2H points, you need to come up with a scoring system that makes sure that the elite players are elite, and the good ones are only good. I could give you advice on a scoring system based on my experiences.

 

[Pasha71]

Well, I want the defensive players to have some value, but I don't want them to overshadow offensive ones, either. I've been thinking something like 6 for Goals, 4 for Assists, 2 for PPP and +/-, 1 for PIM, Hits and Blocks, 5 for Wins and SO, +0.5 for Saves, -2.5 for Goals Against...

 

[Pasha71]

And, again, it has to be 1-3 days per game, not the whole week. Granted, Yahoo Fantasy doesn't support anything but weekly games (Fantrax allows you to split a week into a 4-day game and a 3-day one, but it's a premium option). But with points, unlike with categories, it's very easy to count. Just create a roto Yahoo Fantasy league for all the player movements (roster changes, adds/drops, trades), and then all you need to do is create an H2H schedule and manually look daily at who got how many points.

 

[klassic]

The problem with splitting weeks like that is you get a lot of variation in Games per "Week". Most games are played Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. One "Week" will have 1 of those days and the next will have 2. If you have a week that is Sunday-Wednesday there is gonna be a lot of luck involved. Who gets the best schedule. Games played is important. Streamers to maximize games played. With a points league you should eliminate minimum Goalie starts.

I run a Dyansty Points league. Average weekly totals for teams is 180-250. Somewhere in that range. Most weeks there are teams scrambling for players on Sunday to win close matchups. I have seen teams go down by 50 points by Thursday and come back to win the week.

Our scoring system is G 4, A 2.5, +/- .5, PIM .5, PPP 1, SHG 3, SHA 1.5, SOG .2, FW .07, HIT .2, BLK .2 --- GS 1.5, W 3, GA -1, SV .2, SO 4

FYI in your scoring above an Even Strength Goal or Assist is worth the same as a PPG or PPA. Also with 6 hits, blocks or PIM equal to 1 G I am gonna load up on Bangers. Borowiecki, Byfuglien, and Risto are top 10 players.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Well, I want the defensive players to have some value, but I don't want them to overshadow offensive ones, either. I've been thinking something like 6 for Goals, 4 for Assists, 2 for PPP and +/-, 1 for PIM, Hits and Blocks, 5 for Wins and SO, +0.5 for Saves, -2.5 for Goals Against...

I'd probably cut all of those totals in half.

Here are the two scoring systems for my two H2H points leagues:

Goal: 1.5
Assist: 1
+/-: .25
Penalty minute: .25
Shorthanded goal: 1
Game winning goal: 2
Hit: .1
Blocked Shot: .25
Faceoff won: .05
Takeaway (Fantrax only): .1
Win: 3
Shutout: 3
Save: .1
Goal against: -1

Centers are naturally more valuable in this one because faceoffs count. I personally like this scoring system better than my other league.


Goal: 5
Assist: 3
+/-: 1
Power play point: 1
Shorthanded point: 2
Shot on goal: .25
Hit: .5
Blocked Shot: .5
Game started: 3
Shutout: 5
Save: .25
Goal against: -1

This one, I feel is more offense heavy. Goalies also outscore most skaters because four saves cancel out one goal allowed.


I'd probably go something like this if you wanted hits and blocks. I personally don't like counting penalty minutes, but I understand it. I will test this scoring system out and post the results.

Goal: 4
Assist: 2
+/-: 1
Penalty minute: .25
Power play point: 1
Shorthanded point: 2
Shot on goal: .25
Faceoff won: .05
Hit: .25
Blocked Shot: .25
Win: 3
Save: .1
Goal against: -1
Shutout: 5

And, again, it has to be 1-3 days per game, not the whole week. Granted, Yahoo Fantasy doesn't support anything but weekly games (Fantrax allows you to split a week into a 4-day game and a 3-day one, but it's a premium option). But with points, unlike with categories, it's very easy to count. Just create a roto Yahoo Fantasy league for all the player movements (roster changes, adds/drops, trades), and then all you need to do is create an H2H schedule and manually look daily at who got how many points.

Yeah, I wouldn't pay $80 or whatever it is just for that feature. I understood what you meant with that feature.

 

[rangerssharks414]

@Pasha71

I'm currently testing scoring systems on Fantrax. Of course, scoring forwards are going to be more valuable than hits and blocks guys... as they should be. In a points league that counts cumulative points rather than average per game, third line guys still have some fantasy value. The thing I'm having trouble finding a balance for is that d-men are so far down the scoring leaders.

Centers would almost always have more points than wingers if I ran a H2H points league since they are more important in real life.

 

[Pasha71]

Of course the schedule is very uneven... but that's another problem. With either categories or points, you are bound to have holes in lineups. Which is why I would prefer a minimal daily lineup (G, D, D, LW, C, RW) and unlimited signings.

 

[klassic]

Unlimited moves just becomes who can be first to stream the best players every day. I would never have an empty starting position in that league.