Playoff run, pens trio vs oilers trio

[93gilmour93]

Penguins

 

[Juxta Position]

It's the Oilers trio by a quite a bit. Crosby and Malkin have never even sniffed the type of playoff numbers McDrai put up last year. and Gretzky is literally the greatest playoff performer of all time.

just look at the points per game;

Lemieux 1.9
Crosby 1.3
Malkin 1.5

Gretzky 2.6 (lol what?)
McDavid 2.1
Draisaitl 2

This isn't a close poll. Malkin and Crosby in their entire careers never had a playoff like McDrai did last year, and then add Gretzky's insane numbers to that and this poll should be locked because it's that lopsided.

This thread just looks like another "I'm gonna pick the other guys citing ridiculously stupid reasons because I hate the Oilers"

 

[um]

Older Crosby is the weak link, 09 Crosby would be interesting.

 

[DrDangles]

The proven winners

 

[Video Nasty]

Wonder who Nathaniel voted for.

 

[DomBarr]

It's the Oilers trio by a quite a bit. Crosby and Malkin have never even sniffed the type of playoff numbers McDrai put up last year. and Gretzky is literally the greatest playoff performer of all time.

just look at the points per game;

Lemieux 1.9
Crosby 1.3
Malkin 1.5

Gretzky 2.6 (lol what?)
McDavid 2.1
Draisaitl 2

This isn't a close poll. Malkin and Crosby in their entire careers never had a playoff like McDrai did last year, and then add Gretzky's insane numbers to that and this poll should be locked because it's that lopsided.

This thread just looks like another "I'm gonna pick the other guys citing ridiculously stupid reasons because I hate the Oilers"

McDrai both going 2 ppg over 16 games actually means jack sh*t because at the end of the day they didn't win a cup.
This was a poll where the OP posted the best playoffs for each player (debatable for Crosby) 4 of those performances ended with the team winning a Cup...2 didn't

I'll take the 3 players that scores less than 2 ppg and the team wins the cup for each performance over 1 freak of nature Gretzky and 2 players scoring over 2 ppg and losing in the 3rd round.

 

[Juxta Position]

McDrai both going 2 ppg over 16 games actually means jack sh*t because at the end of the day they didn't win a cup.
This was a poll where the OP posted the best playoffs for each player (debatable for Crosby) 4 of those performances ended with the team winning a Cup...2 didn't

I'll take the 3 players that scores less than 2 ppg and the team wins the cup for each performance over 1 freak of nature Gretzky and 2 players scoring over 2 ppg and losing in the 3rd round.

There is literally nothing in the op that states anything about winning a cup. It was which group of players would you take for a playoff run using each groups best playoff runs, that's it. Not which group of Cup winning playoff runs do you take using these group of players. And the worst Oilers players run was better than the best Penguins players run. pretty straightforward.

And going by your last statement, then the question should have been, if you dropped Crosby and Malkin on the '91 Pens and McDavid and Draisaitl on the '85 Oilers, which team is better?

But that wasn't the question was it? You're now being disingenuous to the question by changing the parameters of the question to support you're own opinion.

 

[socko]

Older Crosby is the weak link, 09 Crosby would be interesting.

Yes, I just disregarded that and answered it like they were all in their prime. It didn't make sense to just put the 1 guy out of his prime.

 

[Darren McCord]

It's the Oilers trio by a quite a bit. Crosby and Malkin have never even sniffed the type of playoff numbers McDrai put up last year. and Gretzky is literally the greatest playoff performer of all time.

just look at the points per game;

Lemieux 1.9
Crosby 1.3
Malkin 1.5

Gretzky 2.6 (lol what?)
McDavid 2.1
Draisaitl 2

This isn't a close poll. Malkin and Crosby in their entire careers never had a playoff like McDrai did last year, and then add Gretzky's insane numbers to that and this poll should be locked because it's that lopsided.

This thread just looks like another "I'm gonna pick the other guys citing ridiculously stupid reasons because I hate the Oilers"

Crosby had 28pts in 17games in 09
Malkin also had 28pts in 17 games in 09

That’s not too far from mcdrai before finals. Crosby and Malkin also did that carrying their own lines.

McDrai played 60% of the time together at even strength alone. Maybe they win the cup if they carry their own lines.

Malkin was a beast and played with one guy who’s career high was 41 and another who broke 30 pts once.

 

[Darren McCord]

There is literally nothing in the op that states anything about winning a cup. It was which group of players would you take for a playoff run using each groups best playoff runs, that's it. Not which group of Cup winning playoff runs do you take using these group of players. And the worst Oilers players run was better than the best Penguins players run. pretty straightforward.

And going by your last statement, then the question should have been, if you dropped Crosby and Malkin on the '91 Pens and McDavid and Draisaitl on the '85 Oilers, which team is better?

But that wasn't the question was it? You're now being disingenuous to the question by changing the parameters of the question to support you're own opinion.

This is just straight up wrong.

Drai and McDavid were not better than Mario. Points per game means crap. They could have stunk in up in the finals. If you go the points per way then take Mario's 92 run.
15gp 16g 18a 34pts. which was better than both of their runs.

The question is weird anyways. It seems random picking 17 Crosby to start.

Even so I still take the pens. Edm had 4ppg players and Kane was a goal per game almost. Edm had a wayyyy better top 6.
Pens had a much worse top six but just had better defense and goaltending.

Kane and Hyman alone had as many goals as the pens 6 top 9 wingers. Kunitz had 1 goal all playoffs playing top line-minutes.

 

[Juxta Position]

This is just straight up wrong.

Drai and McDavid were not better than Mario. Points per game means crap. They could have stunk in up in the finals. If you go the points per way then take Mario's 92 run.
15gp 16g 18a 34pts. which was better than both of their runs.

The question is weird anyways. It seems random picking 17 Crosby to start.

Even so I still take the pens. Edm had 4ppg players and Kane was a goal per game almost. Edm had a wayyyy better top 6.
Pens had a much worse top six but just had better defense and goaltending.

Kane and Hyman alone had as many goals as the pens 6 top 9 wingers. Kunitz had 1 goal all playoffs playing top line-minutes.

say what?

McDavid literally just put up one of the best playoff runs in NHL history, Leon was one point behind him, and set a playoff record for most points in a 5 game series with seventeen (17!!!), and you're using the "ya but who's to say they wouldn't have sucked in the next round" argument?

you're not bringing up any valid points in any way shape or form. this is just you not liking them and going with the other guys because of it. It's completely fine for you not to like them or the Oilers, but to deny what they accomplished statistically is what's just straight up wrong.

 

[Darren McCord]

say what?

McDavid literally just put up one of the best playoff runs in NHL history, Leon was one point behind him, and set a playoff record for most points in a 5 game series with seventeen (17!!!), and you're using the "ya but who's to say they wouldn't have sucked in the next round" argument?

you're not bringing up any valid points in any way shape or form. this is just you not liking them and going with the other guys because of it. It's completely fine for you not to like them or the Oilers, but to deny what they accomplished statistically is what's just straight up wrong.

I would take the
Hyman/Kane - McDavid - Drai over any line the past 20 yrs.

If I had to choose for a playoff run I would pick Crosby and Malkin. They just my preference. They both carried lines on their own and had a much overall weaker top 6.

How is it not a valid point that by the end of round three. Hyman and Kane had 24 goals while ALL of the penguins wingers combined for 26.

 

[Juxta Position]

I would take the
Hyman/Kane - McDavid - Drai over any line the past 20 yrs.

If I had to choose for a playoff run I would pick Crosby and Malkin. They just my preference. They both carried lines on their own and had a much overall weaker top 6.

How is it not a valid point that by the end of round three. Hyman and Kane had 24 goals while ALL of the penguins wingers combined for 26.

because it has nothing to do with the question. the question was which 3 players do you take for a run using their individual stats, not which 3 players, and their surrounding team, do you take for a run. if you change the parameters like that, then players like Kane, Hyman, Kurri, Jagr, Francis, Coffey, Letang etc., all start to factor in. Like I said, it's changing the parameters of the question to support your own argument.

 

[Regal]

because it has nothing to do with the question. the question was which 3 players do you take for a run using their individual stats, not which 3 players, and their surrounding team, do you take for a run. if you change the parameters like that, then players like Kane, Hyman, Kurri, Jagr, Francis, Coffey, Letang etc., all start to factor in. Like I said, it's changing the parameters of the question to support your own argument.

I think their point is that when your teammates are scoring, there’s more points to go around, and even moreso when you stack the top line, as the Oilers had to do with Drai’s injury. The Oilers this playoffs were playing high scoring hockey both ways, which means score effects comes into play as well, and in general the league has been high scoring recently. You can’t use McDrai’s points per game as a straight up comparison because of those factors. That doesn’t mean they weren’t great, but while McDavid might have been better, it wasn’t by a significant amount over Crosby and Malkin in ‘09, and Draisaitl was clearly not as good as any of the three to anyone who watched. This comparison uses Crosby’s ‘17 for some reason, which is definitely below McDavid and Malkin, and probably Draisaitl though.

 

[Darren McCord]

because it has nothing to do with the question. the question was which 3 players do you take for a run using their individual stats, not which 3 players, and their surrounding team, do you take for a run. if you change the parameters like that, then players like Kane, Hyman, Kurri, Jagr, Francis, Coffey, Letang etc., all start to factor in. Like I said, it's changing the parameters of the question to support your own argument.

Ehhh ok. Still a weird questions. I would still take the Pens. If it is solely based on players not team, I take the guys who put up goals.

91 Mario, 09 Sid, 09 Malkin had 45 goals
Gretzky, McDavid, Drai had 34 goals

 

[Juxta Position]

I think their point is that when your teammates are scoring, there’s more points to go around, and even moreso when you stack the top line, as the Oilers had to do with Drai’s injury. The Oilers this playoffs were playing high scoring hockey both ways, which means score effects comes into play as well, and in general the league has been high scoring recently. You can’t use McDrai’s points per game as a straight up comparison because of those factors. That doesn’t mean they weren’t great, but while McDavid might have been better, it wasn’t by a significant amount over Crosby and Malkin in ‘09, and Draisaitl was clearly not as good as any of the three to anyone who watched. This comparison uses Crosby’s ‘17 for some reason, which is definitely below McDavid and Malkin, and probably Draisaitl though.

So now we've circled back to the Draisaitl is just a product of McDavid now hey?

17 points in a 5 game series wasn't as good? wow, OK. Considering that's an NHL record, and he did it with a high ankle sprain, yes it definitely was as good.

He also 9 points in 6 games which is a 1.5 ppg before he was paired with McDavid, which is still better than Crosby and on par with Malkin, and that was before he went supernova on the Flames.

All these specious arguments to try and discredit historical performances by these 2 players (especially Draisaitl) are kind of ridiculous.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Gretzky> Lemieux
McDabid > Crosby
Draisaitl <Malkin (but close)

Edmonton for sure

 

[Zbynek]

Geno Malkin

 

[Regal]

So now we've circled back to the Draisaitl is just a product of McDavid now hey?

17 points in a 5 game series wasn't as good? wow, OK. Considering that's an NHL record, and he did it with a high ankle sprain, yes it definitely was as good.

He also 9 points in 6 games which is a 1.5 ppg before he was paired with McDavid, which is still better than Crosby and on par with Malkin, and that was before he went supernova on the Flames.

All these specious arguments to try and discredit historical performances by these 2 players (especially Draisaitl) are kind of ridiculous.

No, but apparently we’ve cycled back to the same tired bullshit that putting anything in context somehow means a player is shit. Yawn. It’s seriously exhausting that so many on here can’t actually take an argument as anything but the extreme.

Production is different than how a player is actually performing, especially over a small sample. This should be obvious. Draisaitl isn’t a product of McDavid, but both players score more when they’re put together than when they aren’t, moreso for Draisaitl. This is just a fact. Same with the Oilers playing high scoring games and the league being in a high scoring era. Yet for some reason you ignored all these factors after I pointed them out.

You mention Draisaitl’s performance with a high ankle sprain as if that makes his performance better. It doesn’t. More impressive, maybe, but not better. He couldn’t skate well enough to drive play or be an effective defensive player. He put up huge points and that’s great, because he’s a great finisher and passer, but he needed McDavid to create space and draw defenders from him because he couldn’t do it on his own while injured. That doesn’t mean he’s a product of McDavid, because only a handful of players could do what he did in the same situation, but it also means he was a somewhat limited player in those games, which Crosby and Malkin were not at their bests. Away from McDavid at 5v5, he had a 36% xGF% and a 10%!!! GF%.

And yes, he was playing well before the injury, he’s a great player. But again, it’s 1.50 PPG in 6 games in the first round, in a high scoring environment. Both Crosby and Malkin have had better 6 game stretches, so there’s no point in comparing it to full cup winning runs. I mean, you talk about discrediting Draisaitl and McDavid, but I think you’re discrediting two other all time greats in Malkin and Crosby by pretending that there aren’t other factors at play when points per game is considered.

 

[GMR]

Are we comparing individual playoff runs? If so, it's hard to rank players who never got past the second round. Could McDavid/Draisaitl keep the same scoring pace against tougher opponents in the WCF and SCF? Based on actually playing four playoff series, I'm picking the Penguins trio.

Also, Crosby's best playoff run was 2009.