Players with the best 1st 5 seasons to start their career ever

[Hardyvan123]

Just posting will add more later.

The obvious are Gretzky, Mario, Bobby and Crosby.

Others in the discussion are AO, Bourque, Potvin, Bobby Hull, Haerchuck, Jagr and maybe Peter Stastny off the top of my head.
Maybe we can have some serious discussion and/or rank players.

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't think Crosby is obviously ahead of Ovechkin, at all. It seems pretty "flavor of the year" to say something like that.

 

[Unaffiliated]

I don't think Crosby is obviously ahead of Ovechkin, at all. It seems pretty "flavor of the year" to say something like that.

Agree with this.

Crosby mainly has team achievement on his resume to compare to Ovechkin's higher goal production.

A lot of other factors in there, but that's the basic gist.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Anyway, to answer your question, Wayne Gretzky is the obvious choice for #1. Tied for the Art Ross his rookie year, then won it going away his next 4 seasons. This is one category that Wayne wins hands down.

Lemieux and Orr are definitely behind Wayne in this regards. Both were great players for each of their first 3 seasons. But both men didn't hit that "next level" until their 4th season (a level nobody but the traditional Big 4 has ever approached).

Gordie Howe probably doesn't belong here. He did hit that "next level," winning the Art Ross by a huge margin, but it wasn't until his 5th season. But his first 3 years were good, not great - he didn't become a top 10 scorer until he finished 3rd in his 4th season.

I would actually take Crosby and Ovechkin in the regular season over Bossy in the first 5 years, but Bossy scoring 10, 17, and 17 goals in his 3rd-5th playoffs narrows the gap and maybe then some.

Jean Beliveau deserves an HM. In his rookie year (he played a handful of games in 2 seasons beforehand), he had a respectable 34 points in 44 games. Then, the next 4 years, he finished 3rd, 1st, 3rd, and 8th (injuries) in scoring. Beliveau scored in the double digits in the playoffs all 5 seasons, and won the Cup in the 3rd-5th.

 

[Crimsontidefan]

Mike Bossy, Luc Robitaille

 

[reckoning]

Terry Sawchuk should be at #3 right behind Gretzky and Orr. Though it depends on if you count his 7 games in 49-50 as a season. If not, his run from 50-51 to 54-55 was incredible:

Calder Trophy
3 1st All-Star Team selections, 2 2nd Team selections
3 Vezina Trophies
Led NHL in wins in all 5 seasons
3 Stanley Cups
Almost certainly would've won the Conn Smythe in 1952 if the award had existed then, as his performance that year is considered by many as the best playoff goaltending ever.

 

[Trottier]

I haven't looked at the numbers, but Bossy and Trottier clearly are up there. I believe #19 statistically had a dropoff his sophomore season, but regardless.

 

[jkrx]

Denis Potvin for sure.. dont know where I would rank him but he is defintly up there.

Howie Morenz is up there.

Lindros was a force in his first regular season years.

Fedorov.

Sakic is for me atleast up in the top 10.

Bobby Hull should be mentioned.

Edit: Patrick Roy, Lindbergh, Vachon, Plante and Belfour should rank pretty high too.

 

[Form and Substance]

Lindros had a pretty good first 5 year run as well, culminating in a hart trophy in his 3rd season and a run to the cup finals in his 5th. He also had a brilliant 95-96 campaign. Forsberg too could be mentioned. Maybe Kariya as well.

 

[Trottier]

Ken Dryden

 

[JackSlater]

Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Ovechkin
Potvin

Crosby and Beliveau are very much in the mix with Ovechkin and Potvin. Goaltenders excluded for the sake of convenience.

 

[pluppe]

goalies are trickier since they often have a few back-up seasons but if you would count from their first 30 game season Hasek would have a good case. 4 Vezinas, 2 Hart 5 times leading in sv%. but then he has the advantage of being much older aswell so maybe that is being to generous.

 

[pnep]

"HHOF Monitor" PTS First 5 NHL Seasons
(without players who started pro career in NHA, PCHA, WCHL/WHL)

Player|POS|Seasons|NHL "HHOF Monitor" PTS
Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky |C|1979-84|2828.00
Bobby "Number Four" Orr |D|1966-71|1887.65
Alexander "Ovie" Ovechkin |LW|2005-10|~1867
Terry "Ukey" Sawchuk |G|1949-55|1855.50
Mario "The Magnificent" Lemieux |C|1984-89|1731.00
Ken "Octopus" Dryden |G|1970-77|1715.50
Jean "Le Gros Bill" Beliveau |C|1950-58|1565.00
Bill "The Mirror Man" Durnan |G|1943-48|1459.00
Frank "Mr. Zero" Brimsek |G|1938-43|1424.50
Mike "The Boss" Bossy |RW|1977-82|1372.00
Tony "Tony O" Esposito |G|1968-74|1363.50
Howie "The Stratford Streak" Morenz |C|1923-28|1316.00
Jacques "Jake The Snake" Plante |G|1952-58|1300.00
Maurice "The Rocket" Richard |RW|1942-47|1293.50
Nels "Old Poison" Stewart |C|1925-30|1257.00
Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek |G|1990-97|1206.00
Bryan "Trots" Trottier |C|1975-80|1188.50
Sidney "Sid The Kid" Crosby |C|2005-10|~1176
Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull |RW|1985-92|1164.50
Evgeni "Gino" Malkin |C|2006-10|~1154 *
Cecil "Babe" Dye |RW|1919-24|1144.00
C.J. Syl "Slippery Syl" Apps |C|1936-41|1138.50
Cecil "Tiny" Thompson |G|1928-33|1103.50
Bobby "The Golden Jet" Hull |LW|1957-62|1103.50
Gordie "Lefty" Drillon |RW|1936-41|1059.50
Denis "Baby Bear" Potvin |D|1973-78|1047.70
Charlie "Big Blue Bomber" Conacher |RW|1929-34|1042.00
Glenn "Mr. Goalie" Hall |G|1952-60|1018.50
Stan "Stosh" Mikita |C|1958-64|1010.00
Leonard "Red" Kelly |D|1947-52|950.70
Bernie "Boom-Boom" Geoffrion |RW|1950-56|946.00
Paul "Coff" Coffey|D|1980-85|925.25
Max "Dipsy Doodle Dandy From Delisle" Bentley |C|1940-47|920.50
Ed "The Eagle" Belfour |G|1988-95|917.00
Patrick "St Patrick" Roy |G|1984-90|915.50
Bryan Sr. "Hex" Hextall |RW|1936-42|912.50
Doug "Dandy Doug" Bentley |LW|1939-44|903.00
Alec "The Ottawa Fireman" Connell |G|1924-29|866.00
David "Sweeney" Schriner |LW|1934-39|837.50
Paul "The Sharpshooter" Kariya |LW|1994-99|823.50
Jari "The Flying Finn" Kurri |RW|1980-85|822.00
Guy "The Flower" Lafleur |RW|1971-76|803.00
Jacques "Lappy" Laperriere |D|1962-68|800.25

* - 4 Seasons
​

 

[Loto68]

I'm wondering how Brian Leetch's first 5 years stack up.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

"HHOF Monitor" PTS First 5 NHL Seasons
(without players who started pro career in NHA, PCHA, WCHL/WHL)

Player|POS|Seasons|NHL "HHOF Monitor" PTS
Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky |C|1979-84|2828.00
Bobby "Number Four" Orr |D|1966-71|1887.65
Alexander "Ovie" Ovechkin |LW|2005-10|~1867
Terry "Ukey" Sawchuk |G|1949-55|1855.50
Mario "The Magnificent" Lemieux |C|1984-89|1731.00
Ken "Octopus" Dryden |G|1970-77|1715.50
Jean "Le Gros Bill" Beliveau |C|1950-58|1565.00
Bill "The Mirror Man" Durnan |G|1943-48|1459.00
Frank "Mr. Zero" Brimsek |G|1938-43|1424.50
Mike "The Boss" Bossy |RW|1977-82|1372.00
Tony "Tony O" Esposito |G|1968-74|1363.50
Howie "The Stratford Streak" Morenz |C|1923-28|1316.00
Jacques "Jake The Snake" Plante |G|1952-58|1300.00
Maurice "The Rocket" Richard |RW|1942-47|1293.50
Nels "Old Poison" Stewart |C|1925-30|1257.00
Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek |G|1990-97|1206.00
Bryan "Trots" Trottier |C|1975-80|1188.50
Sidney "Sid The Kid" Crosby |C|2005-10|~1176
Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull |RW|1985-92|1164.50
Evgeni "Gino" Malkin |C|2006-10|~1154 *
Cecil "Babe" Dye |RW|1919-24|1144.00
C.J. Syl "Slippery Syl" Apps |C|1936-41|1138.50
Cecil "Tiny" Thompson |G|1928-33|1103.50
Bobby "The Golden Jet" Hull |LW|1957-62|1103.50
Gordie "Lefty" Drillon |RW|1936-41|1059.50
Denis "Baby Bear" Potvin |D|1973-78|1047.70
Charlie "Big Blue Bomber" Conacher |RW|1929-34|1042.00
Glenn "Mr. Goalie" Hall |G|1952-60|1018.50
Stan "Stosh" Mikita |C|1958-64|1010.00
Leonard "Red" Kelly |D|1947-52|950.70
Bernie "Boom-Boom" Geoffrion |RW|1950-56|946.00
Paul "Coff" Coffey|D|1980-85|925.25
Max "Dipsy Doodle Dandy From Delisle" Bentley |C|1940-47|920.50
Ed "The Eagle" Belfour |G|1988-95|917.00
Patrick "St Patrick" Roy |G|1984-90|915.50
Bryan Sr. "Hex" Hextall |RW|1936-42|912.50
Doug "Dandy Doug" Bentley |LW|1939-44|903.00
Alec "The Ottawa Fireman" Connell |G|1924-29|866.00
David "Sweeney" Schriner |LW|1934-39|837.50
Paul "The Sharpshooter" Kariya |LW|1994-99|823.50
Jari "The Flying Finn" Kurri |RW|1980-85|822.00
Guy "The Flower" Lafleur |RW|1971-76|803.00
Jacques "Lappy" Laperriere |D|1962-68|800.25

* - 4 Seasons
​

Pnep, does your formula account for how much more difficult it is to be a 1st Team All Star at center than at win? It partially explains the large gap between Crosby and Ovechkin in this formula, correct?

 

[VanIslander]

Nels Stewart had two Hart trophies in his first 5 seasons, four times top-5 in goals, twice top-10 in assists and two top-2 PIM finishes.

 

[jkrx]

Pnep, does your formula account for how much more difficult it is to be a 1st Team All Star at center than at win? It partially explains the large gap between Crosby and Ovechkin in this formula, correct?

I think its the individual awards that make OV sky rocket from Crosby.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Pnep, does your formula account for how much more difficult it is to be a 1st Team All Star at center than at win? It partially explains the large gap between Crosby and Ovechkin in this formula, correct?

It should also be noted that Crosby finished 3rd in post-season All Star voting twice in his first 5 years

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Pnep, does your formula account for how much more difficult it is to be a 1st Team All Star at center than at win? It partially explains the large gap between Crosby and Ovechkin in this formula, correct?

Not getting a single Conn Smythe out of his two spectacular playoff runs doesn't help matters any.

As far as the playoffs are concerned, Crosby would have as many HHOF points as Tyler Kennedy, which seems more than a little off.

 

[Derick*]

For reference.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=Sxz7V

I'm just putting this out there, but best being top five in your first five seasons doesn't mean it's more than likely you'll be top five for your whole career.

 

[Big Phil]

I haven't looked at the numbers, but Bossy and Trottier clearly are up there. I believe #19 statsitically had a dropoff his sophomore season, but regardless.

Yes he did. Not to mention his rookie season, while very good was not at an Ovy or Crosby level either, not quite. Trottier from year #3-5 was excellent though.

Fedorov.

May I ask why on this one? Fedorov had one elite season in his first 5 and that was his 4th season. His 5th season is where he started his playoff legacy but he's still lagging behind the rest.

Sakic is for me atleast up in the top 10.

You really think so? Why is that? I'm not sure I'd put Sakic anywhere near the top 10. His play from 1988-'93 was anything but legendary. He finished as high as 6th and 10th in scoring those years. He was an emerging young talent, but the Burnaby Joe we now know hadn't hit full stride yet

Edit: Patrick Roy, Lindbergh, Vachon, Plante and Belfour should rank pretty high too

Agree on Roy. Plante is up there too, Belfour went to a Cup final, won two Vezinas and was a 2nd team all-star. He started off hot for sure. The only problem is that he hadn't shed his "choker in the playoffs" label until 1999. A little confused about Lindbergh and Vachon though. Lindbergh sadly never made 5 seasons and only had one really great year and that was his 4th. Vachon won three Cups, but two of them were as backups and he was never an all-star either. I just interested, do you care to elaborate on some of these picks?

 

[Stephen]

Jimmy Carson had a pretty good start to his career before fizzling.

 

[redbull]

the only answer is Ken Morrow

 

[Hardyvan123]

I don't think Crosby is obviously ahead of Ovechkin, at all. It seems pretty "flavor of the year" to say something like that.

Agreed put up post in a bit of a rush as I had to head out, just wanted to get the discussion going and off of the other 2 threads.

Missed Bossy on original list as well.

 

[Hardyvan123]

For reference.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=Sxz7V

I'm just putting this out there, but best being top five in your first five seasons doesn't mean it's more than likely you'll be top five for your whole career.

Interesting list, it would be interesting but the site doesn't allow for adjusted points searches, if I had the time I would do it but busy season right now with company moving a plant for the whole month of December.

Actually 2 lists could be doen one more for adjusted points then a combined placing for both lists ie. Gretz would be number 1 on both and next lowest probably Mario just eyeballing it.

It would only be a list of stats but a good starting point.

Other factors like playoff success and 2way play would come under consideration as well.

One guy that really stands out more than just his raw stats to me was Potvin who led his team in scoring the 1st 4 years he was in the league and was 2nd to Trottier in his 5th all the while playing stellar defense as well.

He won the Calder, Norris 2 twice and was a 1st team all star 3 times and 2nd team once.