Player Discussion: Olli Juolevi | III

[Ryp37]

I have watched him play and I realize hes not going to be a 50 point guy. Hes more of a stay at home d man who makes quick (and wise) decisions and can create a quick transition play out of the zone. I know im getting hammered here for bringing up Adam Larsson - I brought him up because he has the same smarts, has a good first/transition pass out of the zone, but wont put up a million points.

I realize that Button has Sergachev higher, but dont you think that being regarded as a top 5 d prospect in the NHL is pretty good? He still has top 2 d man potential written all over him.

Don't you think it's strange that we passed on Tkachuk who was ranked higher for Juolevi, and now the D taken after Juolevi is ranked higher than him in their D+1 years?

 

[y2kcanucks]

I think some of you guys would have been slamming Adam Larsson when he was Juolevi's age. Larsson taken 4th overall, will probably never generate 40+ point seasons, but he is a solid defender and smart player and has played a huge role in settling down the oilers d. I can see Juolevi ending up in a Larsson-esque mold.

I dont care about Tkachuk, its not like they passed up on Laine or Mathews. Keith Jr has 12 goals, and looks to be a 55-65 point guy. Id take a top 2 d man over that every time. Juolevi can pan out to be a top 2 d man.

rebuilds are hampered by lack of goaltending and lack of quality d men. Look at the oilers for the 8-9 years prior to this, look at how the flames sucked last year. Juolevi and Demko are good pieces to build on.

Funny you talk about his goal total while ignoring his assists/point total. As an 18 year old, putting up that kind of production while also putting up elite first liner possession numbers is an extremely valuable asset. Right now Tkachuk is looking like the third best player in the draft by a wide margin.

 

[CanaFan]

Pretty much. Which one of them have top 2 dman potential. Yup, thats right. Zero. And even a genius like you had no clue that Tryamkin and Stecher would progress like they have.




Blah blah blah. So underwhelming yet a guy who gets paid to scout and evaluate prospects still has this horrible player in the top 5 d prospects in the whole of the NHL. But what does button know, he surely has nothing on an angry guy posting anonymously on a hockey forum.

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/who-are-the-best-players-not-skating-in-the-nhl-1.677389



Oh im sorry if I offended your golden boy. What do you know about how players grow and develop other than bit@ing about them?

So nothing except posting a list showing 7 players we passed on rated higher than Juolevi? And that's not even including Tkachuk.

Uh, good job *defending* your guy lol

 

[Draino]

Don't you think it's strange that we passed on Tkachuk who was ranked higher for Juolevi, and now the D taken after Juolevi is ranked higher than him in their D+1 years?

I would have thought it was strange if they passed on Laine or Mathews in favor of Juolevi. Passing on Tkachuk, a guy ranked 4-5 for a guy ranked 6-8 that has excellent potential to turn out to be a top 2 d man isnt as drastic as you are trying to make it. At the time the organization thought that they had high potential prospects in the wing positions but had basically ZERO in terms of prospects that could turn out to be top pairing d men.

Sheesh, you guys are real angry in here. I knew these boards were negative cesspools...but wholy crap...

Time to go do something more constructive, like clean my toilet.

 

[Oliewud]

Funny you talk about his goal total while ignoring his assists/point total. As an 18 year old, putting up that kind of production while also putting up elite first liner possession numbers is an extremely valuable asset. Right now Tkachuk is looking like the third best player in the draft by a wide margin.

i like tkachuk but how much of his stats are being boosted by backlund? backlunds a helluva player.


I don't think we can properly evaluate who will be a more valuable player at this point.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I would have thought it was strange if they passed on Laine or Mathews in favor of Juolevi. Passing on Tkachuk, a guy ranked 4-5 for a guy ranked 6-8 that has excellent potential to turn out to be a top 2 d man isnt as drastic as you are trying to make it. At the time the organization thought that they had high potential prospects in the wing positions but had basically ZERO in terms of prospects that could turn out to be top pairing d men.

Sheesh, you guys are real angry in here. I knew these boards were negative cesspools...but wholy crap...

Time to go do something more constructive, like clean my toilet.

Yes we are upset that the Canucks passed on a better prospect for positional need. Especially considering Juolevi doesn't project as a franchise defenseman. It's doubtful he ends up being a regular top pairing defenseman, and will more likely settle in as a solid second pairing guy. Passing up a first line winger with elite possession numbers for a second pairing defenseman isn't a smart move.

 

[Draino]

So nothing except posting a list showing 7 players we passed on rated higher than Juolevi? And that's not even including Tkachuk.

Uh, good job *defending* your guy lol

"My guy" is ranked in the top 5 d prospects in the WHOLE of the NHL? Uh is that supposed to be bad? Wow, talk about a lost cause. And incase you did not notice, multiple teams passed on the same players. Tell you what, why dont you write to Burke/Treviling and tell him how much you love them and your boy instead of barking at me. LOL.

 

[y2kcanucks]

i like tkachuk but how much of his stats are being boosted by backlund? backlunds a helluva player.

juolevi has similar #s to drew doughty's draft +1.

I don't think we can properly evaluate who will be a more valuable player at this point.

Tough to say, both seem to be playing well off of each other. I don't think Tkachuk has been carried by any means. His OHL production was absolutely elite, and he's showing that at the NHL level. Defensively Backlund has probably helped, but offensively Tkachuk is the real deal.

 

[y2kcanucks]

"My guy" is ranked in the top 5 d prospects in the WHOLE of the NHL? Uh is that supposed to be bad? Wow, talk about a lost cause. And incase you did not notice, multiple teams passed on the same players. Tell you what, why dont you write to Burke/Treviling and tell him how much you them and your boy instead of barking at me. LOL.

And Tkachuk is likely to be top 5 among all rookies, actually IN the NHL.

Tell you what, instead of telling someone to write to another teams GM maybe try supporting your position a bit better?

 

[Draino]

i like tkachuk but how much of his stats are being boosted by backlund? backlunds a helluva player.

juolevi has similar #s to drew doughty's draft +1.

I don't think we can properly evaluate who will be a more valuable player at this point.

Finally a poster with critical thinking skills. Dont bother with these guys buddy, they are in love with the chuckster, probably have posters of him too!

 

[Draino]

And Tkachuk is likely to be top 5 among all rookies, actually IN the NHL.

Tell you what, instead of telling someone to write to another teams GM maybe try supporting your position a bit better?

And how is this supposed to diminish Juolevi? Good for Tkachuk, it doesnt mean our pick was garbage like the angry mob here thinks it is. We still have a highly ranked D prospect that projects to be a top pairing d man. Thats horrible.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Don't you think it's strange that we passed on Tkachuk who was ranked higher for Juolevi, and now the D taken after Juolevi is ranked higher than him in their D+1 years?

that seems pretty normal in the hockey drafting cycle. the dust takes a while to settle.

even redrafts 2 or 3 years after the draft can look wrong a couple of years after that.

 

[CanaFan]

i like tkachuk but how much of his stats are being boosted by backlund? backlunds a helluva player.

juolevi has similar #s to drew doughty's draft +1.

I don't think we can properly evaluate who will be a more valuable player at this point.

Helluva all round player, yes.

Offensively? Never cracked 50 points until this year.

I mean he's not a plug but what is the threshold for attributing one player's success to another? How much is a player with a 47-point career high inflating Tkachuk's numbers over and above what an *average* 2C would? I mean any player in the top 6 is gonna play with decent players. If he was here he'd play with Horvat, who is at least as offensively gifted as Backlund at an even earlier age. Would we say Horvat is inflating Tkachuk too?

 

[y2kcanucks]

And how is this supposed to diminish Juolevi? Good for Tkachuk, it doesnt mean our pick was garbage like the angry mob here thinks it is. We still have a highly ranked D prospect that projects to be a top pairing d man. Thats horrible.

People are concerned about Juolevi because he hasn't really progressed this year. In the games that I watched him he didn't even look that strong defensively.

But regardless, all people are saying is Benning was stupid to pass up a better prospect to take Juolevi, who wasn't even the consensus top defenseman.

 

[Oliewud]

it stings to pass on tkachuk but what are we seeing around the league? we're seeing teams like winnipeg/colorado who are absolutely stacked offensively yet can't even stay .500 because their defense is awful.

I think there's definitely an argument to be made for building through the back-end. Does that mean you should pass on the BPA? I'm not sure, but I think the canucks could potentially have one of the best pairings in the league with Juolevi-Tanev.

 

[CanaFan]

"My guy" is ranked in the top 5 d prospects in the WHOLE of the NHL? Uh is that supposed to be bad? Wow, talk about a lost cause. And incase you did not notice, multiple teams passed on the same players. Tell you what, why dont you write to Burke/Treviling and tell him how much you love them and your boy instead of barking at me. LOL.

Well he *was* a 5th overall pick. The expectation is for a pretty good player to begin with. What if the Leafs had passed on Matthews and drafted Clayton Keller instead? He's ranked #1 on that list and gonna be a good player according to scouts. Does that mean passing on an even better player isn't stupid?

Juolevi is a high pick in a strong draft. Getting a #3-4 Dman with no real physical or offensive game is disappointing if that comes to pass. I mean it'd be awesome if he was a 2nd round pick but he wasn't and we passed on other players who would also be excellent prospects for us too.

 

[Oliewud]

Helluva all round player, yes.

Offensively? Never cracked 50 points until this year.

I mean he's not a plug but what is the threshold for attributing one player's success to another? How much is a player with a 47-point career high inflating Tkachuk's numbers over and above what an *average* 2C would? I mean any player in the top 6 is gonna play with decent players. If he was here he'd play with Horvat, who is at least as offensively gifted as Backlund at an even earlier age. Would we say Horvat is inflating Tkachuk too?

Well you know I was hoping tkachuks junior totals were being inflated by marner and dvorak when we passed on him. Now i'm saying the same thing at the NHL level...maybe he's just a damn good player.

 

[CanaFan]

i like tkachuk but how much of his stats are being boosted by backlund? backlunds a helluva player.

juolevi has similar #s to drew doughty's draft +1.

I don't think we can properly evaluate who will be a more valuable player at this point.

????

Doughty played in the NHL in his D+1. How do you make that comparison?

 

[Draino]

People are concerned about Juolevi because he hasn't really progressed this year. In the games that I watched him he didn't even look that strong defensively.

But regardless, all people are saying is Benning was stupid to pass up a better prospect to take Juolevi, who wasn't even the consensus top defenseman.

Easy to say in retrospect. Sorry, but this cant be judged for about 5 years. I think people are looking for quick gratification here. Juolevi is a highly ranked prospect, lets give him time to see what he can do.

Benning is not as stupid as some of you guys think he is. He nabbed Gaudette in the 5th round, got Boeser at 23, has managed to find Tryamkin and sign Stecher. Thinking that he was that out to lunch with Juolevi doesnt fit most of his actions. We are talking about a guy that projects to be a top pair d man for @#$# sakes! lol....

 

[CanaFan]

Well you know I was hoping tkachuks junior totals were being inflated by marner and dvorak when we passed on him. Now i'm saying the same thing at the NHL level...maybe he's just a damn good player.

Gotcha. Would tend to agree with that.

 

[Cupless44]

And how is this supposed to diminish Juolevi? Good for Tkachuk, it doesnt mean our pick was garbage like the angry mob here thinks it is. We still have a highly ranked D prospect that projects to be a top pairing d man. Thats horrible.

Problem is, we passed on Tkachuk AND Keller....and personally I feel that Juolevi is tracking as the 4th defenceman in his class, behind Sergachev, Chychrun, McAvoy.

I think he will be a solid, not spectacular top 4 defenceman. Every team can use a player like this but he is not the type of impact player you want to get out of a top 5 pick.

That is my opinion.

 

[Oliewud]

????

Doughty played in the NHL in his D+1. How do you make that comparison?

yeah your right. read hockeydb wrong lol

 

[Draino]

Well he *was* a 5th overall pick. The expectation is for a pretty good player to begin with. What if the Leafs had passed on Matthews and drafted Clayton Keller instead? He's ranked #1 on that list and gonna be a good player according to scouts. Does that mean passing on an even better player isn't stupid?

Juolevi is a high pick in a strong draft. Getting a #3-4 Dman with no real physical or offensive game is disappointing if that comes to pass. I mean it'd be awesome if he was a 2nd round pick but he wasn't and we passed on other players who would also be excellent prospects for us too.

Come on buddy, im trying to be polite - and I apologize for sounding harsh previously-but you are basing this on your projection. Ill trust guys like Button, Benning, and everyone else that had him ranked so high before I take your word.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Well you know I was hoping tkachuks junior totals were being inflated by marner and dvorak when we passed on him. Now i'm saying the same thing at the NHL level...maybe he's just a damn good player.

i think if you put him with horvat and baertschi or even the sedins he'd be having similar success.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Easy to say in retrospect. Sorry, but this cant be judged for about 5 years. I think people are looking for quick gratification here. Juolevi is a highly ranked prospect, lets give him time to see what he can do.

Benning is not as stupid as some of you guys think he is. He nabbed Gaudette in the 5th round, got Boeser at 23, has managed to find Tryamkin and sign Stecher. Thinking that he was that out to lunch with Juolevi doesnt fit most of his actions. We are talking about a guy that projects to be a top pair d man for @#$# sakes! lol....

Not hindsight...I wanted Tkachuk before the pick was even made.

And no, I have serious doubts that Juolevi projects as a top pair defenseman. I've long said that I expect he could be another Dan Hamhuis type, except Hamhuis at least had some offense to his game. Juolevi hasn't really developed in that area.

Gaudette looks good now but let's see how he does at the pro level.

Boeser was a good pick. I'd have taken Konecny. Let's see who ends up correct. Konecny has looked good too.

Tryamkin could have been a scouts pick for all we know, and Stecher was highly pursued by almost every team.