Prospect Info: Player Discussion - Drew O'Connor (LW/C)

[Andy99]

Woahhhh. Why is there any talk of Kappy vs. Boyle? They fill 2 different roles (and that's if you consider Kappy filling any role at all, besides sucking). KK should not be in the lineup to begin the series. He can come in if there's an injury or if someone else deserves to be out (i.e. ERod).

Boyle brings several important elements KK does not: size, physicality, reliable defensive play, PKing, face-off ability, heck...he's even a more reliable offensive producer than KK at this point. Also, he brings a huge inspirational leadership element to this team. He's made for playoff hockey in particular, and we need more of what he brings, not less. So Boyle has to be in no matter what.

And of course Boyle can play LW or C, not RW. KK can only play RW (if you think he can play hockey at all).

As I posted in another thread earlier today before DOC was recalled:

Guentzel--Crosby--Rakell(Rust)
Heinen--Malkin--Rust(Rakell)
DOC--Carter--McGinn
Boyle--Blueger--ERod

So that's Boyle in, DOC in, and Kappy TF out!

Post automatically merged: Apr 30, 2022

To the bolded -- Kappy is struggling, in case you haven't noticed. KK hasn't just been doing nothing, he's actively hurting our team right now.

I think because it's been so long, people may forget what DOC brings. But he'll be a much more effective forechecker and the chance to be a better offensive contributor than KK, which are kind of the only 2 things KK does when he's actually playing well, which he hasn't done this entire season.

I meant struggling because of injury although not out of the lineup…Nothing personal but DOC hasn’t shown much offensively…we have a lot of forwards who struggle to score, like what has McGinn done, but I still think they’d have more of a chance to score than DOC…that aspect of his game has been missing when he plays in Sullivan’s system lol…(and surprise he’s not the only one)…he brings a good forecheck and speed and we may need that but I don’t think he’s getting in Game 1

 

[jmelm]

I meant struggling because of injury although not out of the lineup…Nothing personal but DOC hasn’t shown much offensively…we have a lot of forwards who struggle to score, like what has McGinn done, but I still think they’d have more of a chance to score than DOC…that aspect of his game has been missing when he plays in Sullivan’s system lol…(and surprise he’s not the only one)…he brings a good forecheck and speed and we may need that but I don’t think he’s getting in Game 1

But it also depends who he's playing with. The difference between DOC and KK (aside from KK not being an option to play LW) is that DOC is a much more useful player even if he's not scoring.

ERod can't play LW, just can't. So he's one of the bottom 2 RW, along with McGinn. That leaves the bottom 2 LW spots open, and Zucker is out, DOC and Boyle are the only (and also the best) options.

 

[Andy99]

But it also depends who he's playing with. The difference between DOC and KK (aside from KK not being an option to play LW) is that DOC is a much more useful player even if he's not scoring.

ERod can't play LW, just can't. So he's one of the bottom 2 RW, along with McGinn. That leaves the bottom 2 LW spots open, and Zucker is out, DOC and Boyle are the only (and also the best) options.

McGinn can and has played LW…we have so many deadweights…ERod, McGinn, Zucker, Kap…I’ll be very surprised if playing most of the season in Wilkes, DOC is going to getting a hat in Game 1…

 

[jmelm]

McGinn can and has played LW…we have so many deadweights…ERod, McGinn, Zucker, Kap…I’ll be very surprised if playing most of the season in Wilkes, DOC is going to getting a hat in Game 1…

You might be right, but I have more faith in DOC than Kapanen. From the sounds of things, it seems Errey and Taylor Hasse (not that either of them have any say) don't think KK deserves to play. When you work for the Pens (or covering them) like they do, I'm not sure they make statements like that if they have intel that suggests their statements are unlikely to transpire -- just because it makes them look inept.

But I also believe Sully is totally fed up with Kapanen. He has not responded well to being scratched. He has not responded well to being coddled. I suggested a week or two ago that I thought part of the problem was that he wasn't scratched for longer and/or more often, and I think this came down purely to inability to call up others due to cap constraints, so KK had to play.

Now let's consider this: *IF* you were going to play DOC in a game, you would want to call him up immediately after the season ended, right? Even though WBS still had another game left. That tells me they want to keep him fresh, rested, and get him with the team and in on video sessions and practices ASAP. That puts some fuel on the fire that DOC may actually play.

I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but I believe it's at least 50/50, and I'd probably say 70/30 or more. I'm not even sure Sully knows 100% what he wants to do yet, and will make that decision after seeing DOC and KK in practice, etc.

p.s. there is no way you can say that having KK in the lineup is any less "deadweights" than having DOC in there. It's not like KK is doing some things well and other things not. He's literally doing nothing well. I think DOC can at least bring things to the table even if he doesn't score, but I also think he's more likely to score than KK.

 

[Andy99]

You might be right, but I have more faith in DOC than Kapanen. From the sounds of things, it seems Errey and Taylor Hasse (not that either of them have any say) don't think KK deserves to play. When you work for the Pens (or covering them) like they do, I'm not sure they make statements like that if they have intel that suggests their statements are unlikely to transpire -- just because it makes them look inept.

But I also believe Sully is totally fed up with Kapanen. He has not responded well to being scratched. He has not responded well to being coddled. I suggested a week or two ago that I thought part of the problem was that he wasn't scratched for longer and/or more often, and I think this came down purely to inability to call up others due to cap constraints, so KK had to play.

Now let's consider this: *IF* you were going to play DOC in a game, you would want to call him up immediately after the season ended, right? Even though WBS still had another game left. That tells me they want to keep him fresh, rested, and get him with the team and in on video sessions and practices ASAP. That puts some fuel on the fire that DOC may actually play.

I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but I believe it's at least 50/50, and I'd probably say 70/30 or more. I'm not even sure Sully knows 100% what he wants to do yet, and will make that decision after seeing DOC and KK in practice, etc.

p.s. there is no way you can say that having KK in the lineup is any less "deadweights" than having DOC in there. It's not like KK is doing some things well and other things not. He's literally doing nothing well. I think DOC can at least bring things to the table even if he doesn't score, but I also think he's more likely to score than KK.

All that might be true, and I’m not defending kap, but Zucker being out may be the reason Kap plays…also don’t think DOC is more likely to score than Kap…the WBS coach just said he had to work on the offensive side of his game…playing DOC is basically reinserting a more energetic ZAR in the lineup…which is great and Sully might like that but he’s not likely to score lol

 

[Pens x]

Sully and Sleepy hate AHL guys.

 

[jmelm]

All that might be true, and I’m not defending kap, but Zucker being out may be the reason Kap plays…also don’t think DOC is more likely to score than Kap…the WBS coach just said he had to work on the offensive side of his game…playing DOC is basically reinserting a more energetic ZAR in the lineup…which is great and Sully might like that but he’s not likely to score lol

Zucker being out is the reason why DOC might play, not the reason why Kap may play, especially since they play different positions.

And sure: DOC is a guy that was moved from LW to 1st mine C this season. So sure, the coach can say he can work on his offense if he’s playing a top 6 C role and balancing that against the defensive responsibilities that he’s already good at. But like I said earlier, DOC would likely have put up even more dominant offensive numbers if he was just playing LW and not transitioning to a new position — and LW is the position he would play in PIT now.

And while I don’t think it’s an accurate comparison, even if he was only a better version of ZAR, that’s still a better player than KK.

 

[K Fleur]

Sully and Sleepy hate AHL guys.

Sullivan’s appreciation for his AHL guys was a big factor in the 2016 cup win.

None of the guys down there are his guys anymore though.

 

[Pens x]

Sullivan’s appreciation for his AHL guys was a big factor in the 2016 cup win.

None of the guys down there are his guys anymore though.

That was 6 years ago when Sully was actually a good coach.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Time for me to get my DOC jersey?

 

[jmelm]

Time for me to get my DOC jersey?

100%

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Time for me to get my DOC jersey?

Only if you're not a true fan.

True DOC fans have full chest/back tattoos of a DOC jersey so they're always wearing it.

 

[Pens x]

Doc will get his shot in the elimination game.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Just added this bad boy to my cart:

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Magnifique!

 

[jmelm]

Just added this bad boy to my cart:

You might as well just go for O’Jesus on the back if you’re already giving him the C on the front.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

 

[Victor Z]

Doc will get his shot in the elimination game.

After sitting on the bench for the first 55 minutes of that game.

 

[Pens x]

After sitting on the bench for the first 55 minutes of that game.

Sadly, this would be an improvement for Sully.

 

[Al Smith]

DOC had 5 points in his first four games and then 0 in the next 18 or so. His play in WBS earned him a call up, but I'm not sure how you get really excited about him at the NHL level. Granted, watching Kap looking like he's just learning how to play hockey the last month or so has been painful, so I don't think DOC could be worse, but I don't think DOC is the key missing piece for the Pens winning a game or the entire Rags series. And I can't see Sully sitting Boyle for DOC, given Boyle's playoff experience.

 

[jmelm]

DOC had 5 points in his first four games and then 0 in the next 18 or so. His play in WBS earned him a call up, but I'm not sure how you get really excited about him at the NHL level. Granted, watching Kap looking like he's just learning how to play hockey the last month or so has been painful, so I don't think DOC could be worse, but I don't think DOC is the key missing piece for the Pens winning a game or the entire Rags series. And I can't see Sully sitting Boyle for DOC, given Boyle's playoff experience.

Of course we’re not sitting DOC for Boyle. We’re sitting Kapanen for Boyle, and DOC is in for Zucker.

 

[Tender Rip]

Of course we’re not sitting DOC for Boyle. We’re sitting Kapanen for Boyle, and DOC is in for Zucker.

Are you and Empoleon related?
I have never seen anyone else here communicate with as much implied certainty on matters where certainty is or should be considered hard to come by.

I’ve liked DOC, and hope to see him and Z get real shots. I also remember when Lafferty first came up. Or even ZAR…
You never know until you know.

 

[jmelm]

Are you and Empoleon related?
I have never seen anyone else here communicate with as much implied certainty on matters where certainty is or should be considered hard to come by.

I’ve liked DOC, and hope to see him and Z get real shots. I also remember when Lafferty first came up. Or even ZAR…
You never know until you know.

Please don’t ever put DOC and Lafferty in the same sentence. That’s just mean and a wrong, a low blow. Like insulting DOC’s mother. I’ll forgive you this one time

I’m not related to Empoleon (I don’t believe, but we can compare our ancestry.com results). But I write with the certainty and conviction that I do because: I’m always 100% right.

 

[Flying Dego]

I'm all about hyping up our prospects...but I wish I could feel strongly like some here of DOC being a good top 6 wing or center.

Realistically I'd be stunned. I'd be thrilled if he's a good 3rd liner. If he's even tweener level, terrific...but him taking over for Geno as 2C. O BOY...

 

[jmelm]

I'm all about hyping up our prospects...but I wish I could feel strongly like some here of DOC being a good top 6 wing or center.

Realistically I'd be stunned. I'd be thrilled if he's a good 3rd liner. If he's even tweener level, terrific...but him taking over for Geno as 2C. O BOY...

No one is saying he will take over a 2C spot within the next couple of years, if ever. But a solid 3C or a top 6 winger are both well within reach.