Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Post-Apocalyptic Mayhem

[Scandale du Jour]

Last few posts:

And can't make any real changes to the roster. As an example, if you get rid of Rust and Pets:

Guentzel-Crosby-XX
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
McCann-Carter-XX
XX-Blueger-Tanev
XX

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
POJ-XX
Ruhwedel

Jarry
CDS

Leaves only ~9.5M in cap space (assuming Blueger signs for 1.75M, as an example). You typically like to leave at least 1M in space for injuries so they'd only have ~8M to sign a top line RW, top 9 F and fill out the bottom of the roster. Even if the bottom of the roster (2 Fs and a 6th D) cost a total of 3M, you've only left yourself 5M to sign a 1st line winger and a 3rd line winger. That's a forward group that's no better than this year and a D group that’s worse than this year. If you want to sign Ceci then you’re probably left with ~3M to sign a 1st liner and 3rd liner.

So yes, we would be tight to the cap without the ability to make real changes to the roster unless we trade 3 players with sizable salaries.

I could see Letang sign back to pit on a two year 6 mil aav and Malkin sign a 7 mil aav for two years, that alone gives the pens so much.

Anyone that questions Malkin's heart and desire to be on this team after this year is frankly nuts. I feel like you could sell Geno on a discount extension to ride out the sunset and make some cap space for one last bite at the apple; Letang I'm less sure about, especially after he had a great season.

I would rather Evander Kane over Sucker. Even lets say Kane does not score, he has size plus speed and has a mean streak. This would create time and space for Crosby or Malkin. Rust plus Petts get you another really good defensement. Samuel Poulin is coming plus and we have this year's 1st rounder. Keep Carter at line 3 with Tanev and someone else. Or Depending on how talks go Tarasenko, bring him here

Bernier anyone? Haha I mean... Same cap hit as jarry :

What's Dan Cloutier up to? At least he'll blast a guy in the ankle or cup check someone for getting close to his crease. Nobody on the blueline's gonna defend that area.

Geno played better than I expected in this series - he was probably the Pens' best or second-best player - but I am still really worried that he's falling off a cliff in terms of health/physical condition. His injuries have really piled up over the years and I just don't know how many seasons he has left in him where he can play anywhere near 82 games at anywhere close to his full capacity. I would certainly love to see him take a discount deal to finish his career here, but I'm not sure it'll happen.

Oh Geno's body's in shambles. Hands are still there, as is the passion, but as they say... The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised.

Love the dude but I want no part of paying him the ~$24 million, 3-yr deal he's gonna be getting.

Why not pull a Kucherov and give Geno LTIR to rest and recoup and use that money to flesh out the roster? If anybody could use some extra time off it’s the big guy. Fair game, right?

Honestly, it's not Geno I'm worried about, it's Sid.

He looked AWFUL this entire series. You swap 87's jersey with anyone elses and people would be screaming to trade him.

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[Big Friggin Dummy]

Honestly, it's not Geno I'm worried about, it's Sid.

He looked AWFUL this entire series. You swap 87's jersey with anyone elses and people would be screaming to trade him.

You can't say that, dude. He was perfectly fine. His wingers ruined everything, including Sid's ability to skate or create any meaningful chances or get any dangerous shots off.

Besides, perfect 200ft player.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

You can't say that, dude. He was perfectly fine. His wingers ruined everything, including Sid's ability to skate or create any meaningful chances or get any dangerous shots off.

Besides, perfect 200ft player.

He had a few lazy plays on D and tried to force things that were not there. Sid did not play well at all. In fact, he has been mostly awful for 3 straight playoffs.

We should not even THINK about trading him, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

He had a few lazy plays on D and tried to force things that were not there. Sid did not play well at all. In fact, he has been mostly awful for 3 straight playoffs.

We should not even THINK about trading him, but let's call a spade a spade.

I'm not chomping at the bit to move Sid but if he demanded a trade, I wouldn't bat an eye. I've got all the respect in the world for his career but he ain't cutting it anymore, and I've no weird parasocial relationship to these millionaire athletes.

He and Geno should get to decide whether to retire as Penguins or chase the Cup elsewhere. Either decision, I'm entirely fine with. Frankly, I'm bored as f*** watching a team full of names fail miserably over and over again, and having the excuses rain down around them without ever getting any drops on their own shoulders.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think it's time to do a serious re-think of what Penguins hockey means. The fast speedy skating team just isn't getting it done, Sid's speed is toast (hopefully it's just a minor injury he's playing through), and the amount of wear on the two headed monster are all areas of concern.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I think it's time to do a serious re-think of what Penguins hockey means. The fast speedy skating team just isn't getting it done, Sid's speed is toast (hopefully it's just a minor injury he's playing through), and the amount of wear on the two headed monster are all areas of concern.

I think the most logical thing to do is keep the core for at least another year. Everything outside of that is fair game IMO. Sullivan won't like it but a little more size is needed. It doesn't have to be all three guys on each line, but every line needs to have some jam and the ability to get to the net. Guys like McCann shooting from 50 ft and not going anywhere near the net; guys like Rust cycling on the perimeter; guys like Guentzel getting plastered and not able to fight through. That's gotta change.

We don't need an insane amount of skill players; outside the core we have some really good scorers in Guentzel, Kapanen, and yeah Carter. Need a lot more jam and the ability to crash the net.

I'd also love to see some changes to our system. Too much pinching. Too aggressive at bad times. It would be nice to have the ability to slow the game down and lock things down. All three Cup teams had it. We don't.

If it's not Tocchet coming to replace Sullivan I'm not interested in changing the coach; we don't need a year wasted on coaches. Tocchet already knows the team, our system etc. At the least I want him back as an assistant to challenge Sullivan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just don't think we have the time or resources to quick shift gears at this point of the era. Jake, Rust and McCann can all kick rocks. None of them did a damn thing, for years, in the playoffs. Not in terms of production, not in terms of all-around play, not in terms of taking some pressure off of Sid and Geno to give them more room to do their thing. Jake and Rust are living off of their first playoff appearances and by now that was years and years ago. McCann's a never-was. Kap shouldn't be safe either. We've all figured Zucker was gone this summer either way. The 4th line, particularly TB, has no offensive bite. TB has one (1) point in his entire playoff career--a lone assist.

You're basically looking at some serious, major surgery this summer and in-season until the TDL if you want to reshape this roster to be better suited to playoff hockey. We need to keep an element of speed because teams that can't skate, simply get decimated, but we also need to get stronger. Not necessarily tougher, but guys who can actually fight through checks and go into the corners and battle. Guys who have urgency and intensity. Not these sad, vanilla scented, wet farts.

I don't think it can be done, and would welcome the big sell off over the next calendar year to start recouping heavy futures (1sts and good/great prospects).

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Okay, now do the playoffs for the past few years. If we can move a more dynamic offensive weapon in James Neal for a "lesser" player that's a better fit, and the catalyst for doing that trade is repeated playoff disappointments and/or disappearances, Jake Guentzel should absolutely, 10000% be available this summer.

 

[KIRK]

I think it's time to do a serious re-think of what Penguins hockey means. The fast speedy skating team just isn't getting it done, Sid's speed is toast (hopefully it's just a minor injury he's playing through), and the amount of wear on the two headed monster are all areas of concern.

They're not faster anymore. Just smaller and softer.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Okay, now do the playoffs for the past few years. If we can move a more dynamic offensive weapon in James Neal for a "lesser" player that's a better fit, and the catalyst for doing that trade is repeated playoff disappointments and/or disappearances, Jake Guentzel should absolutely, 10000% be available this summer.

No, Jake Guentzel should not be "available" this Summer, unless someone stupidly overpays.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

No, Jake Guentzel should not be "available" this Summer, unless someone stupidly overpays.

Yeah, he's been awesome. A real integral part of this team...'s failures for years.

People need to remove the emotional attachment. If you wanna see one last Cup, you're gonna have to be okay with moving on from guys who simply are not getting it done.

Jake has not gotten it done for years. YEARS. And now he's got a fun bum shoulder on top of everything else.

Rust hasn't done a damn thing either. Both of those guys should absolutely be shopped. I don't care about what happened 3 or 4 years ago. It has zero effect on how these guys should be evaluated and whether or not they should be kept at all costs.

 

[KIRK]

Okay, now do the playoffs for the past few years. If we can move a more dynamic offensive weapon in James Neal for a "lesser" player that's a better fit, and the catalyst for doing that trade is repeated playoff disappointments and/or disappearances, Jake Guentzel should absolutely, 10000% be available this summer.

'Move on', frankly, is the wrong phrase in that tweet. But saying 'let's look for a Neal for Horny style trade as a step to improve the mix' is not.

 

[KIRK]

No, Jake Guentzel should not be "available" this Summer, unless someone stupidly overpays.

Why only then?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just don't understand the rationale. We're all in agreement that this team has woefully underperformed for years, right? Changes need to be made, right? How do you fix things without moving key pieces that have been major components in this team's failures? Is this the classic meme "Give us your good players for our bad players" or something?

f*** Jake. f*** Rust. f*** McCann. Every single one of 'em can hit the road. f*** Sid, too, but this is his franchise.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Of all the wingers Guentzel is the one I'd want to keep most, for his scoring ability, but his size/style needs to be an exception not the norm for our wingers. He got overwhelmed on that line. He needs someone who can create space for him.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Yeah, he's been awesome. A real integral part of this team...'s failures for years.

People need to remove the emotional attachment. If you wanna see one last Cup, you're gonna have to be okay with moving on from guys who simply are not getting it done.

Jake has not gotten it done for years. YEARS. And now he's got a fun bum shoulder on top of everything else.

Rust hasn't done a damn thing either. Both of those guys should absolutely be shopped. I don't care about what happened 3 or 4 years ago. It has zero effect on how these guys should be evaluated and whether or not they should be kept at all costs.

The reason you keep them is not "emotional attachment". It is because, unless you are blowing things up and rebuilding, finding the right trade will be VERY VERY difficult, especially if you still want to contend.

"Neal vs Hornqvist" trades are very difficult to find.

So Jake Guentzel should not be made available unless someone overpays or gives you EXACTLY what you need. Jake has term and produces VERY VERY well. He has A LOT of value. You won't find many 35-40 goals scorer for 6M.

Rust is another subject as he is UFA at the end of the year. Value, in a hockey trade, will likely be lower. Heck, he'll probably be a cap casualty if the team wants to keep both Geno and Letang (and they should).

 

[Daeni10]

Why only then?

Because he is fairly young, makes only 6 million, is a PPG player, fits with both Geno and Sid, has proven he can get the job done.

And its fair to say he has not in the past 3 years, but then again there are only very few players who did get the job done more recently than him

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jake hasn't taken more than half a dozen shots from range, much less dangerous ones or ones with any mustard, all season. Either his confidence in his shoulder is a big problem, or his shoulder is still f***ed up. Either way, he's an issue.

People gotta stop thinking this is 2017 Jake. This is 6pts in the last 3 trips to the post season Jake. This is 3 goals since the Caps series in 2018 Jake. This is soft, bitchy, whiny, petulant Jake. This is Kessel-bad defensively, with nothing of note offensively Jake.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Jake hasn't taken more than half a dozen shots from range, much less dangerous ones or ones with any mustard, all season. Either his confidence in his shoulder is a big problem, or his shoulder is still f***ed up. Either way, he's an issue.

People gotta stop thinking this is 2017 Jake. This is 6pts in the last 3 trips to the post season Jake. This is 3 goals since the Caps series in 2018 Jake. This is soft, bitchy, whiny, petulant Jake. This is Kessel-bad defensively, with nothing of note offensively Jake.

If he is that worthless, what do you expect to get in a trade? Futures? A Hornqvist type?

I mean, come on.

 

[TimmyD]

Jake should definitely be available for a swap of wingers who fit better. Tkachuck for example would be a guy I’d target in a Jake trade. Or in a trade for a stud goalie like Gibson. No one here wants to just dump Jake for prospects and picks, they want to move him to change the mix as @KIRK pointed out. Also I just watched Sully’s presser from last night and someone asked him his opinion about getting bigger because that’s going to be a topic this offseason and his answer was “we didn’t lose this series because we weren’t big enough.” If Burke and Hextall really believe in making this team bigger and tougher then Sully is getting shown the door because he made it pretty clear he doesn’t believe that’s the problem. I fully expect Burke and Hextall to target guys like Coleman, Saad, Landeskog (if he decides to leave Colorado) or Schwartz in free agency and I think he sniffs around to try and trade for a guy like Greenway. He might even make a call on Kane

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The reason you keep them is not "emotional attachment". It is because, unless you are blowing things up and rebuilding, finding the right trade will be VERY VERY difficult, especially if you still want to contend.

"Neal vs Hornqvist" trades are very difficult to find.

So Jake Guentzel should not be made available unless someone overpays or gives you EXACTLY what you need. Jake has term and produces VERY VERY well. He has A LOT of value. You want find many 35-40 goals scorer for 6M.

Rust is another subject as he is UFA at the end of the year. Value, in a hockey trade, will likely be lower. Heck, he'll probably be a cap casualty if the team wants to keep both Geno and Letang (and they should).

Nah, we're just never gonna agree on this. You've got an idealized version of Jake in your mind and not the realistic version that he's been for years. That's fine. Jake was close to as disappointing as Jarry imo. At least we all knew Jarry was teetering on the edge of disaster all season. Jake continuing his disappearing act shouldn't have been a huge surprise, I guess, but it sucks nonetheless.

He's James Neal now.

 

[Shrimper]

From what I can work out, for the expansion draft the following must be protected;

Crosby, Malkin, Letang - Due to NMC's

That leaves either 5 FWD's and 2 DEF and 1 Goalie or 5 Skaters and a Goalie

I would add Guentzel, Kapanen, Tanev, Carter and McCann for FWD and Marino and Dumoulin for DEF with De Smith in goal.

That leaves available after GP restrictions;

Zucker, Rust, Sceviour, ZAR, Blueger, Lafferty, Gaudreau, Jankowski, Rodrigues, Matheson, Pettersson, Ceci and Jarry.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Nah, we're just never gonna agree on this. You've got an idealized version of Jake in your mind and not the realistic version that he's been for years. That's fine. Jake was close to as disappointing as Jarry imo. At least we all knew Jarry was teetering on the edge of disaster all season. Jake continuing his disappearing act shouldn't have been a huge surprise, I guess, but it sucks nonetheless.

He's James Neal now.

Sid played like shit for three straight playoffs too. Do you want him out?

Some pretty lazy defensive plays that led to goals against. Generating next to nothing offensively for 3 straight playoffs.

Is Sid now James Neal too?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

From what I can work out, for the expansion draft the following must be protected;

Crosby, Malkin, Letang - Due to NMC's

That leaves either 5 FWD's and 2 DEF and 1 Goalie or 5 Skaters and a Goalie

I would add Guentzel, Kapanen, Tanev, Carter and McCann for FWD and Marino and Dumoulin for DEF with De Smith in goal.

That leaves available after GP restrictions;

Zucker, Rust, Sceviour, ZAR, Blueger, Lafferty, Gaudreau, Jankowski, Rodrigues, Matheson, Pettersson, Ceci and Jarry.

You do not expose Rust to protect Tanev.

Seattle won't take Tanev with that contract. They'd jump on Rust if he is made available. Even if you want to trade Rust, you do not leave him exposed. It would be atrocious asset management.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If he is that worthless, what do you expect to get in a trade? Futures? A Hornqvist type?

I mean, come on.

You saw the stats. You believe he's fantastic. GMs will pay big for Jake. Let them deal with his bum shoulder and teenage build/temperament.

If this team wants one last Cup, or to simply make it out of the 1st or 2nd round, important pieces need to be moved. Jake's at the top of the list, neck and neck with Rust.

You can't make the meaningful trades this roster needs to even begin thinking about sorting shit out without moving guys that some fans have grown attached to. Happened with Neal, it should absolutely happen again.