Phil Kessel

[SnizzNasty88]

We have a problem in Leafs Nation. The problem we have is that whenever we are on a bad losing streak, such as the one we are on now, everyone wants to trade Phil Kessel as if he's part of the problem. I made a thread like this back around November and December saying the same thing and he went ripping up the NHL after that. This guy is top 5 in the NHL in scoring and you want to trade him? Are you nuts? This guy has put the team on his back this year along with guys like JVR and Bernier. We have a superstar player, firstly, why on earth would we trade him, and secondly, why on earth would we trade him for picks and prospects? In this day and age in the NHL you need to put talent with talent. You don't trade away a true superstar talent like Kessel. Kessel is far from the problem and is and will be part of the solution. Obviously, this year isn't ending the way want it to, but that doesn't mean we should put our star player in ridiculous trade proposals because he is far from the problem. Our defense core is what needs a major overhaul. Were not building around Kessel, he's the only superstar level talent we have so people automatically think were building around him. If Nonis can find a guy like an Eric staal to play with Kessel then we can say "this team is built around Kessel and Staal" cause that's how contending teams are built. Kane and Toews, Crosby and Malkin, Couture and Thornton, Kopitar, Richards and Carter. Notice how there are multiple elite to superstar level talents, and that's not a knock on JVR, JVR is becoming elite but he's not on the level of the players mentioned. Anyways, long story short, this guy is not going anywhere, is part of the solution in a market starved for success and will be a Leaf for life.

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[Diatomic]

I don't see Phil as a player you can win with. I really don't. He's an exceptional player but he isn't going to lead us to a cup.

As you said I wouldn't trade Kessel for prospects/picks, but I'd package him for Tavares. Were weak down the middle (a severe understatement) and transferring some elite talent from the wings to the center is an option that has to be considered. Every Cup contending team has exceptional center depth. A team being built on the wings instead of down the middle is terribly wrong and a huge factor to why we've seen 3 major collapses in 3 years.

Also, the reason I'd be willing to give up Kessel for Tavares is because the Isles would want a elite player back. Picks and prospects won't cut it. You gotta give to get.

 

[Antropovsky]

I don't see Phil as a player you can win with. I really don't. He's an exceptional player but he isn't going to lead us to a cup.

As you said I wouldn't trade Kessel for prospects/picks, but I'd package him for Tavares. Were weak down the middle (a severe understatement) and transferring some elite talent from the wings to the center is an option that has to be considered. Every Cup contending team has exceptional center depth. A team being built on the wings instead of down the middle is terribly wrong and a huge factor to why we've seen 3 major collapses in 3 years.

Also, the reason I'd be willing to give up Kessel for Tavares is because the Isles would want a elite player back. Picks and prospects won't cut it. You gotta give to get.

Tavares isn't going anywhere. Nor is Stamkos, or duchene, or any other star center someone dreams to get for Kessel.

 

[Jacques Trap*]

We have a problem in Leafs Nation. The problem we have is that whenever we are on a bad losing streak, such as the one we are on now, everyone wants to trade Phil Kessel as if he's part of the problem.

Not so much a problem in leafs nation. A problem in HF boards-leafs nation.

Although leafs fans in general could be delusional, nothing comes close to the bipolar mentality shown by leafs fans on this board.

The overwhelming majority of fans here are capable of making statements arguing for players on this team being worthy candidates for the Hart, Norris , Vezina etc. and then arguing that the very same players are closer to being useless...within weeks of the previous argument...and then back again weeks later.

When it comes to Kessel he is a superstar without question. Is he a two way stalwart ala Bergeron or Toews? No. But without the supporting cast that say a Patrick Kane has around him, the same assinine argument could be made him too "not being able to lead this team to glory..."

Maybe the leafs do need a better, more clear cut team leader than Kessel. They need a lot of things. And a game breaker like him is one of the things they need as well.

Edit - I'm neither a leafs fan or hater.

 

[charliolemieux]

I don't see Phil as a player you can win with. I really don't. He's an exceptional player but he isn't going to lead us to a cup.

As you said I wouldn't trade Kessel for prospects/picks, but I'd package him for Tavares. Were weak down the middle (a severe understatement) and transferring some elite talent from the wings to the center is an option that has to be considered. Every Cup contending team has exceptional center depth. A team being built on the wings instead of down the middle is terribly wrong and a huge factor to why we've seen 3 major collapses in 3 years.

Also, the reason I'd be willing to give up Kessel for Tavares is because the Isles would want a elite player back. Picks and prospects won't cut it. You gotta give to get.

Same thing was said about Stevie Y. Jus' saying.

 

[Snacks Kassian]

Not so much a problem in leafs nation. A problem in HF boards-leafs nation.

Although leafs fans in general could be delusional, nothing comes close to the bipolar mentality shown by leafs fans on this board.

The overwhelming majority of fans here are capable of making statements arguing for players on this team being worthy candidates for the Hart, Norris , Vezina etc. and then arguing that the very same players are closer to being useless...within weeks of the previous argument...and then back again weeks later.

When it comes to Kessel he is a superstar without question. Is he a two way stalwart ala Bergeron or Toews? No. But without the supporting cast that say a Patrick Kane has around him, the same assinine argument could be made him too "not being able to lead this team too glory..."

Maybe the leafs do need a better, more clear cut team leader than Kessel. They need a lot of things. And a game breaker like him is one of the things they need as well.

Truu!

 

[hfman]

lol a 36 goal scorer and here we are talking about moving him. wow. what else but wow.

you dont move a 36 (and still maybe 40) goal scorer.

you add components around him.

wtf lol

 

[Rielly4]

Phils extremely dynamic and dangerous but id rather have a more all around player that can pass better and have less turnovers and be able to win puck battles...

Logan Couture would be a guy i would probably rather have than Kessel.

 

[Cor]

Okay, listen. I understand wanting to sacrifice some offense to improve our all round defensive game, BUT KESSEL IS NOT THE GUY YOU MOVE! He is a top 5 offensive player in the NHL. You don't just move those types of players.

Kessel isn't just a one dimensional player either. He is arguably a better playmaker then he is sniper and that is seriously saying something. He has speed that burns, and when he wants to, can show off some serious hands.

Defense wise, you aren't going to see this guy throw big hits, or block many shots, but that isn't his job. He has become respectful defensively since he has gotten here, and he will continue to work on it, and will only get better.

People who want to deal Phil Kessel are just out of their minds. No Chance. Nadda. He is a life long Leaf if we ever had one. This guy will have his banner hanging from the ACC when he retires.

This is like people who think we should deal Dion because of a bad stretch of 8-10 games, after he has been playing arguably his best hockey as a Leaf. Dion, Rielly, and probably Gardiner. You don't trade them, you improve what is around them.

I don't know if people are just starved for a blockbuster around here or what... but man oh man, it is getting crazy.

 

[rdawg1234]

Oh here we go again, we're in a slump so it must be Kessels fault.

When we're winning kessel is a dynamic elite winger, when we're losing it's all about how Kessel doesnt play hard enough.

The issue here is basically everyone but the first line and Rielly, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Bernier. Literally anyone else can be removed from this team and i wouldnt care.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I sincerely hope the Leafs do not trade Phil Kessel because that would be a huge mistake.

However what if Tim Leiweke goes to Dave Nonis and says they need a major shake up because of what's happened and tells him trade Phil Kessel or you get fired. It also seems that he doesn't take lossing very well. Look at the changes he did with the Raptors who are in the NBA Playoffs for the first time since 2008 and Toronto FC who is off to a 2-1 start in the MLS season.

 

[Dirty Dan]

Kessel can drive a line on his own, if we move him our offense is pretty much driven by guys like JVR and Kadri. It's clear we need better forechecking forwards but why does everyone insist that we become the Blue Jackets?

Trade guys like Franson who cost you more than they produce. We can afford to have Kessel at 8m, if we don't make clarkson deals.

 

[EdBelfour20]

Kessel is one of the few brights spots on this team. He is excellent! We CAN win with him, we just need better supporting players. IE: A top six winger, a #2 center, a #1 or #2 dman, a #3 or #4 dman, and a backup goalie. Oh, and Komarov.

 

[Kurtz]

I don't see Phil as a player you can win with. I really don't. He's an exceptional player but he isn't going to lead us to a cup.

I don't like the colour yellow because strawberries taste better.

Phil is absolutely the type of player that you can win with, and who'd be integral to winning. But no, off-course he's not a leader.

Phil's our Kane - now we need to compliment him with our Toews. Or a Bergeron and Chara. We don't need to fking replace him.

Trade him for Tavares? I mean sure, I'd do it, but we'd be back in the exact place we were with Sundin - shy one elite winger and dman.

 

[rdawg1234]

Trade him for Tavares? I mean sure, I'd do it, but we'd be back in the exact place we were with Sundin - shy one elite winger and dman.

Even then, Tavares had Vanek as his winger, and I'm pretty sure Phil's line was still outscoring them or at least on par, so getting Tavares instead of Phil is simply a side-step.

Phil is dynamic in playmaking and scoring.

attack the 2nd line here, Kadri and lupul have been invisible for most of this season, and we've had zero depth scoring. Our bottom 6 does NOTHING outside of maybe Kulemin(rarely) and Bodie(Rarely). I really want the marlies on the bottom 6 next year, even the one game with D'amigo tonight he brought more energy.

start scratching Clarkson next season if he doesnt pick it up, this is garbage.

 

[Haatley]

Even then, Tavares had Vanek as his winger, and I'm pretty sure Phil's line was still outscoring them or at least on par, so getting Tavares instead of Phil is simply a side-step.

Phil is dynamic in playmaking and scoring.

attack the 2nd line here, Kadri and lupul have been invisible for most of this season, and we've had zero depth scoring. Our bottom 6 does NOTHING outside of maybe Kulemin(rarely) and Bodie(Rarely). I really want the marlies on the bottom 6 next year, even the one game with D'amigo tonight he brought more energy.

start scratching Clarkson next season if he doesnt pick it up, this is garbage.

Has kessel been producing the last couple of weeks?

 

[Confucius]

Keep Kessel we will never replace Kessel's points by trading for a player.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

PPl just dont get it. Look at the top 10 for points and you will find 3 former Bruins. Bruins who is currently top of the league and have a cup and another final appearance since doing their rebuild have their best point producer Krejci at 27.
St Louis who are leading the Western conference have their best point producer Steen at 29.

Having one or two great offensive individuals who dont contribute with anything else then points is NOT the way forward. We need to build a hard working team with players who plays both end of the ice, who sacrifice the body to make a play or stop a play.

When it comes to special teams St Louis PK is ranked 2nd and Bostons PK ranked 8th. Leafs are ranked 28th.
Blues have the 3rd ranked PP and Boston have the 4th ranked PP. Here Leafs is actually good with the 6th ranked PP.

But what having a physically tough team with 2-way players who run a good PP and more importantly a good PK allows you to do is play an intense game. You know that if you gets sent to the box it is not the end of the game since you PK will most likely deal with it. And if the other team try and play your game when they have a player sent off your PP will take advantage of it.

And even do our PP is rather good, they have allowed as many SH G/A as Bruins and Blues together with 11. How is that for a confidence boost?

 

[Haatley]

PPl just dont get it. Look at the top 10 for points and you will find 3 former Bruins. Bruins who is currently top of the league and have a cup and another final appearance since doing their rebuild have their best point producer Krejci at 27.
St Louis who are leading the Western conference have their best point producer Steen at 29.

Having one or two great offensive individuals who dont contribute with anything else then points is NOT the way forward. We need to build a hard working team with players who plays both end of the ice, who sacrifice the body to make a play or stop a play.

When it comes to special teams St Louis PK is ranked 2nd and Bostons PK ranked 8th. Leafs are ranked 28th.
Blues have the 3rd ranked PP and Boston have the 4th ranked PP. Here Leafs is actually good with the 6th ranked PP.

But what having a physically tough team with 2-way players who run a good PP and more importantly a good PK allows you to do is play an intense game. You know that if you gets sent to the box it is not the end of the game since you PK will most likely deal with it. And if the other team try and play your game when they have a player sent off your PP will take advantage of it.

And even do our PP is rather good, they have allowed as many SH G/A as Bruins and Blues together with 11. How is that for a confidence boost?

Well said.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If Kessel is not a guy you can win with, then Kane isn't either. They are the same kind of player. Not only can you win with that kind of player, but they can be valuable enough to get a Conn Smythe along the way.

I don't get the obsession with labels like that. You win Stanley Cup by putting together a team that is good enough and hope that your team gets hot and lucky. It's not about having a Kopitar instead of a Kessel, that just mean you have to build the supporting group differently. Toronto hasn't done that, and that's one of their problems. Kessel isn't.

PPl just dont get it. Look at the top 10 for points and you will find 3 former Bruins. Bruins who is currently top of the league and have a cup and another final appearance since doing their rebuild have their best point producer Krejci at 27.
St Louis who are leading the Western conference have their best point producer Steen at 29.

Having one or two great offensive individuals who dont contribute with anything else then points is NOT the way forward. We need to build a hard working team with players who plays both end of the ice, who sacrifice the body to make a play or stop a play.

When it comes to special teams St Louis PK is ranked 2nd and Bostons PK ranked 8th. Leafs are ranked 28th.
Blues have the 3rd ranked PP and Boston have the 4th ranked PP. Here Leafs is actually good with the 6th ranked PP.

But what having a physically tough team with 2-way players who run a good PP and more importantly a good PK allows you to do is play an intense game. You know that if you gets sent to the box it is not the end of the game since you PK will most likely deal with it. And if the other team try and play your game when they have a player sent off your PP will take advantage of it.

And even do our PP is rather good, they have allowed as many SH G/A as Bruins and Blues together with 11. How is that for a confidence boost?

First off, there is no the way to go. You can build successful teams in a multitude of ways, around very different types of players. You can still build a gritty team with two-way ability and strong defense while having a player like Kessel.

You also need to realize that the bolded part could just as well mean Columbus or Rangers, or even Calgary, as well as Boston. The Bruins and St Louis are not this much better than Toronto because of the type of players they have. They are much better because they have a way more talented team through the entire squad AND have a system built around that type of players. Simply put, they have better players and get the most out of their players. We have weaker players in a system that doesn't work to their strengths.

Toronto has gone through this season relying almost entirely on Bernier, our first pairing and our top line. That's the big difference between us and any top team. Taking a statistical view on the team there is not a player outside that group that has been consistently good for us. Raymond has secondary scoring, but numerous issues not suited for his role. Kadri and Lupul put up some points as well, but have been lazy and weak defensively. Our defensive group was carried by our top pairing until lately, every other defenseman have been weak defensively. Reimer has been awful as a backup.

 

[Mess]

lol a 36 goal scorer and here we are talking about moving him. wow. what else but wow.

you dont move a 36 (and still maybe 40) goal scorer.

you add components around him.

wtf lol

You mean like Columbus trading Rick Nash or Minny Marian Gaborik and becoming better teams without them.

Boston traded a +30 scorer in Kessel and don't seem to be missing him as one of the best teams in the NHL since his departure.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

If Kessel is not a guy you can win with, then Kane isn't either. They are the same kind of player. Not only can you win with that kind of player, but they can be valuable enough to get a Conn Smythe along the way.

I don't get the obsession with labels like that. You win Stanley Cup by putting together a team that is good enough and hope that your team gets hot and lucky. It's not about having a Kopitar instead of a Kessel, that just mean you have to build the supporting group differently. Toronto hasn't done that, and that's one of their problems. Kessel isn't.



First off, there is no the way to go. You can build successful teams in a multitude of ways, around very different types of players. You can still build a gritty team with two-way ability and strong defense while having a player like Kessel.

You also need to realize that the bolded part could just as well mean Columbus or Rangers, or even Calgary, as well as Boston. The Bruins and St Louis are not this much better than Toronto because of the type of players they have. They are much better because they have a way more talented team through the entire squad AND have a system built around that type of players. Simply put, they have better players and get the most out of their players. We have weaker players in a system that doesn't work to their strengths.

Toronto has gone through this season relying almost entirely on Bernier, our first pairing and our top line. That's the big difference between us and any top team. Taking a statistical view on the team there is not a player outside that group that has been consistently good for us. Raymond has secondary scoring, but numerous issues not suited for his role. Kadri and Lupul put up some points as well, but have been lazy and weak defensively. Our defensive group was carried by our top pairing until lately, every other defenseman have been weak defensively. Reimer has been awful as a backup.

First of all, Kane is a more complete player then Kessel. Offensively they are probably equal but Kane is way more dynamic since he works harder then Kessel, hence the Conn Smythe.

And the Rangers have made the playoffs frequently only missing once since the lockout -05 while also winning some rounds once they started to add 2-way players in their line up.

Columbus is a good example of a team changing it´s culture to a more blue color style of hockey and having success with it considering how they started. And they are only in the early stages of their rebuild but I like their direction a lot more then our direction.

 

[Bardown warrior]

I like Kessel, but he kinda epitomizes everything that is wrong with the leafs. HE Can't cycle the puck. He is an elite goal scorer yes, there is no denying this, but he is also extremely soft on the boards, probably the worst in the leauge in this regard. It just looks like he is scared or timid in going to the dirty areas to fight for loose pucks. I dont know about trading him but decisions will have to be made going forward.

I mean maybe that's why Boston traded him. Yes they saw his offensive upside, but were able to look past that because he is that typical soft player. Maybe we should trade when his stock has never been higher.

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs people.

 

[Stephen]

Kessel is a high value asset. It's not necessary to trade him but if you eventually moved him for a package that looked like Ryan Johansen, Alex Wennberg and 1st for example, suddenly you have your next generation big bodied number one center, a top six forward and another 1st to go in your stable. Columbus walked away from Rick Nash and their haul from the Rangers really served to change them into a good hard working team with depth rather than one that relied on a few wingers to do the heavy lifting. But of course I'd focus on moving Lupul, Phaneuf, Clarkson, Franson and Kadri out before Kessel.

 

[Swarez]

You only trade him for the right deal. Say Tavares legit wants out, you make that call.

If we miss this year with phaneuf/kessel both of whom get raises next year, and will need to eventually pay 5 million for a starting goalie (Bernieror who ever) because that's what they cost you have to see if our money is being allocated properly. It will be easier to find a wing to pay with Tavares tha a true #1C for this team.

You can shop for. Guy like molson/vanek/cammileri or someone else, hell give jagr 3 million for the year.

What is a better first line?
Kessel-Bozak-JVR
Cammaleri-Tavares-JVR

This isn't to say kessel isn't elite he obviously is, but sometimes teams need to be built properly and ours isn't. If we miss this year he would have made playoffs once in five years. He is the best asset we have, and Tavares is out there, hell even if he isn't you make a move on him.