Confirmed with Link: Pens sign Eric Fehr (3 years, $2M per)

[drpepper]

1) While I'm as excited as anyone to see Sundqvist in a Pens' uniform, and that he'll get some games at the start of the season when Fehr is out, it really is for the best to let this kid play on the top-2 lines in WBS for 18 minutes/game, rather than centering our 4th line all year.


2) I wanted Brandon Sutter traded for a Dman, and that was even before we signed Fehr. So I have no problem parlaying Nick Bonino, who may very well not be that 20 goal guy every year, into a Dman. Best case scenario: Bonino plays well and ups his trade value, but Bennett and Plotnikov also play well, and we're set in our top-9. Bonino playing on our 4th line, as that article states, would be a waste given that he's at least a middle-6 forward on most teams, and given our relative weakness on the blueline. I'd happily add a 2nd and another piece (pick/prospect) to Bonino to get a really solid Dman.


3) If the right deal for a Bonino or Kunitz for a Dman isn't there, then Bonino and Fehr provide insurance for one another if the latter is injured/not healthy or the former doesn't perform particularly well. Odds are at least one of them will work out well. If Fehr ends up breaking down physically and can't play, we either won't be paying his salary because he'll be on IR, or we'll buy him out. Very manageable risk and positive contingencies all around. But we have to address our need on D.

Your idea of a 4th line is outdated. Neither Bonino or Sundqvist on the fourth line is a waste. The idea would be to roll four scoring lines and keep Malkin's and Crosby's minutes manageable. Also, the idea that older forward prospects get better playing in the AHL is wrong. Good players should be in the NHL (unless injury occurs or there are cap issues).

Pens can't add another D-man unless they trade one. Pens have Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, Lovejoy, Scuderi, Dumoulin, Erixon, and Clendening (9 defenders!), and Pouliot is the only one they can send down that is waiver exempt.

 

[mpp9]

Bonino's too cost effective to just turn around and flip him. We have our bottom six centers signed on the cheap through 2017. Let that be.

I think Kunitz is the forward you look to move. That idea of a swap for Smid+pick seems like it could work for both sides given Burke is with Calgary.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea, Bonino is a solid NHL C on the cheap the next 2 yrs.
It really boils down to moving Kunitz and/or Perron for D help.
You could also move Scuds and sign a Franson right now but thats alot tougher to accomplish.

 

[drpepper]

Where are the Pens magically getting space for another defender?

They have 8 defenders that are subject to waivers with Pouliot being the only one able to go down without waivers. Pens do not have space for another defender unless they are trading d-men. They are already likely to lose one or two of Dumoulin, Erixon and Clendening.

Kunitz for Smid accomplishes nothing other than depleting the forward depth and adding another defender that the Pens don't have space for.

 

[mpp9]

Where are the Pens magically getting space for another defender?

They have 8 defenders that are subject to waivers with Pouliot being the only one able to go down without waivers. Pens do not have space for another defender unless they are trading d-men. They are already likely to lose one or two of Dumoulin, Erixon and Clendening.

Kunitz for Smid accomplishes nothing other than depleting the forward depth and adding another defender that the Pens don't have space for.

Uh, they're not keeping both Erixon and Clendening up with the big club. So yeah, they will be exposed to waivers at some point. If they're smart, they sneak them through during the early part of training camp while teams are still figuring out their rosters.

Like I said, bringing in another D-man requires Scuds to go. But that's obvious.

 

[cygnus47]

Yea, Bonino is a solid NHL C on the cheap the next 2 yrs.
It really boils down to moving Kunitz and/or Perron for D help.
You could also move Scuds and sign a Franson right now but thats alot tougher to accomplish.

Joseph Smith was called a prophet
dum dum dum dum dum
Trading a young skilled winger is
dum dum dum dum dum

 

[jmelm]

Bonino's too cost effective to just turn around and flip him. We have our bottom six centers signed on the cheap through 2017. Let that be.

But the flipside of Bonino being cost effective is what him a valuable trade commodity. If Bonino was making $3-$3.5 million, 1/2 to 2/3rds of the teams in the league may not have room for him, and his trade value maybe ****. His current cap hit, and the fact he has term on it, makes him more valuable in a trade. Given how close guys like Wilson, Rust and Sundqvist are to the NHL, it would be WAYYY better to have a top-4 Dman for a package built around Bonino than Bonino playing on our 4th line.

I'm not looking to boot him out the door. If the right deal is not there for a Dman, you don't make a move and you hope & pray that Bonino and everyone else have great seasons, boost their trade value, and that the right Dman is there in a trade. If Letang or Maatta go down, we have ZERO chance to really contend for a Cup, and that's assuming that ALL of the remaining young guys are playing really, really well -- which is certainly a possibility, but definitely not a certainty and perhaps not even probable.

Some people said Sutter was addition by subtraction. I disagree, but I can't argue that Fehr at $2M is better than Sutter straight up. Bonino, a 2nd and Clendenning (who has throw-in value at best) is icing on the cake of that equation. So sure, that makes our forward depth look great. But could anyone in their right mind argue that moving Bonino + 2nd + Clendenning (+ even another pick/prospect) for an established top-4 D wouldn't make us a better team?

Yea, Bonino is a solid NHL C on the cheap the next 2 yrs.
It really boils down to moving Kunitz and/or Perron for D help.
You could also move Scuds and sign a Franson right now but thats alot tougher to accomplish.

Perron has more upside than Bonino. Kunitz best case scenario is he comes back to the form he had 2 years ago. If that happens, we damn well hang on to him because we want to win this year and he's valuable when he's playing at that level. His age & salary mean he won't bring back the same return as a guy like Bonino. Nick is the guy to move in a trade. You add +++'s to Nick to make the package better so you land a legit top-4 guy instead of a 2nd/3rd pairing tweener.

Franson is a guy who may be one of those signings you really regret. If he's not the guy for this team, the only other option is trade. I think if the Pens really wanted Franson, they would have bought out Scuds and gone after him. Instead, they've just been going forward, forward, forward. I think that says a little something about what they think of Franson.

 

[jmelm]

Your idea of a 4th line is outdated. Neither Bonino or Sundqvist on the fourth line is a waste. The idea would be to roll four scoring lines and keep Malkin's and Crosby's minutes manageable. Also, the idea that older forward prospects get better playing in the AHL is wrong. Good players should be in the NHL (unless injury occurs or there are cap issues).

Pens can't add another D-man unless they trade one. Pens have Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, Lovejoy, Scuderi, Dumoulin, Erixon, and Clendening (9 defenders!), and Pouliot is the only one they can send down that is waiver exempt.

Clendenning is on a two-way contract, so we're not stuck with him. I don't think he's special. I would move him in a deal tomorrow if someone wanted him and it made sense for us.

To your former point: if the Pens roll four scoring lines, we really don't need Bonino for that, especially more than we need the Dman he could possibly help us attain by trading him. If you surround Sundqvist with guys like Bennett and Rust/Wilson, you have a lot of skill on that line. Bonino's 8 minutes TOPS at even strength are not going to lead to a wildly different result offensively for that line than if you had Sundqvist in there with the same wingers.

And if Sundqvist isn't ready to play full time in the NHL right now, then he certainly will be in a year, when Bonino will still have term on his deal, but will be closer to UFA (hence even less value). And in one year, guys like Rust and Wilson are going to be beyond ready, and some of our other young guys in addition to them could be challenging for roster spots as well. So, if Sundqvist is here full time within a year -- because I don't see him needing more than 1 year at the most in the AHL, if that -- then we still need to move out one of Bonino/Fehr to make the space for him. In short, all of these facts just reinforce the merits of trading Bonino now if we could find the right Dman for him in a deal. If we hadn't signed Fehr, who different ball game.

 

[WVP]

We just need to make Scuderi disappear somehow. That frees up 3.4M or whatever it is.

Then play Letang, Maatta, Cole, Pouliot, Dumo, Lovejoy as top 6 all year and see what we need. Use one our 2nd's to pick someone up at the deadline.

 

[JTG]

Your idea of a 4th line is outdated. Neither Bonino or Sundqvist on the fourth line is a waste. The idea would be to roll four scoring lines and keep Malkin's and Crosby's minutes manageable. Also, the idea that older forward prospects get better playing in the AHL is wrong. Good players should be in the NHL (unless injury occurs or there are cap issues).

Pens can't add another D-man unless they trade one. Pens have Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, Lovejoy, Scuderi, Dumoulin, Erixon, and Clendening (9 defenders!), and Pouliot is the only one they can send down that is waiver exempt.

I do agree with his premise that Sundqvist is better off playing top 6 mins in WBS and having that load on him night after night. I see him as our 3rd line center of the future - I know people talk about him playing wing, but a guy that big, that strong, that mean, that good of a skater, and have the skill level he does, he has the potential to be one of those x-factor guys in a playoff series that the opposition has no answer for. Let his offensive game develop - let's not Jordan Staal him if we don't have to.

We just need to make Scuderi disappear somehow. That frees up 3.4M or whatever it is.

Then play Letang, Maatta, Cole, Pouliot, Dumo, Lovejoy as top 6 all year and see what we need. Use one our 2nd's to pick someone up at the deadline.

I agree. We're also in a real weird position defensively. We have no one in the minors, so we almost sort of have to carry 8 defensemen on the roster.

 

[WVP]

I do agree with his premise that Sundqvist is better off playing top 6 mins in WBS and having that load on him night after night. I see him as our 3rd line center of the future - I know people talk about him playing wing, but a guy that big, that strong, that mean, that good of a skater, and have the skill level he does, he has the potential to be one of those x-factor guys in a playoff series that the opposition has no answer for. Let his offensive game develop - let's not Jordan Staal him if we don't have to.

I wouldn't mind Sundqvist breaking into the league on the wing and then settling in as a center. Seems almost likely now with Bonino and Fehr here for at least 2 years. Though maybe Bonino is packaged for a D later and Sundqvist takes that spot...

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Fehr is the man. Obviously not a Penguins fan but I hope he does well. You'll love him (when he's healthy).

 

[Jacob]

Sundqvist doesn't project to be any more than a 3rd liner and he's already 21 so I think playing on the 4th line to start is okay. As long as it's a 4th line that plays regularly and is reasonably talented.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Sundqvist doesn't project to be any more than a 3rd liner and he's already 21 so I think playing on the 4th line to start is okay. As long as it's a 4th line that plays regularly and is reasonably talented.

I think it's too early to say that. Scott Hartnell didn't look like a top-six winger when he first started in Nashville, but he turned into an ideal complementary winger over time.

On his own, Sundqvist doesn't seem like a top sixer but on the wing next to Crosby and Hornqvist (for example)? I absolutely could see that working.

 

[Shady Machine]

Where are the Pens magically getting space for another defender?

They have 8 defenders that are subject to waivers with Pouliot being the only one able to go down without waivers. Pens do not have space for another defender unless they are trading d-men. They are already likely to lose one or two of Dumoulin, Erixon and Clendening.

Kunitz for Smid accomplishes nothing other than depleting the forward depth and adding another defender that the Pens don't have space for.

The Pens obviously aren't keeping all those guys up. At least one of Erixon and Clendening will be exposed to waivers. Those guys were both essentially throw ins. The Pens wanted more D depth to compete for spots in camp and hope to slip them through waivers. They were smart moves, but I don't think JR will lose sleep over someone claiming the worst of those 2.

 

[Shady Machine]

But the flipside of Bonino being cost effective is what him a valuable trade commodity. If Bonino was making $3-$3.5 million, 1/2 to 2/3rds of the teams in the league may not have room for him, and his trade value maybe ****. His current cap hit, and the fact he has term on it, makes him more valuable in a trade. Given how close guys like Wilson, Rust and Sundqvist are to the NHL, it would be WAYYY better to have a top-4 Dman for a package built around Bonino than Bonino playing on our 4th line.

I'm not looking to boot him out the door. If the right deal is not there for a Dman, you don't make a move and you hope & pray that Bonino and everyone else have great seasons, boost their trade value, and that the right Dman is there in a trade. If Letang or Maatta go down, we have ZERO chance to really contend for a Cup, and that's assuming that ALL of the remaining young guys are playing really, really well -- which is certainly a possibility, but definitely not a certainty and perhaps not even probable.

Some people said Sutter was addition by subtraction. I disagree, but I can't argue that Fehr at $2M is better than Sutter straight up. Bonino, a 2nd and Clendenning (who has throw-in value at best) is icing on the cake of that equation. So sure, that makes our forward depth look great. But could anyone in their right mind argue that moving Bonino + 2nd + Clendenning (+ even another pick/prospect) for an established top-4 D wouldn't make us a better team?

The Penguins have been going on and on about wanting to roll 4 lines. They aren't moving Bonino. They want cheap contributors in the bottom 6. Also, even if you trade Bonino and spare parts for an established top 4 dman, where do they get the cap space for that move? You'd have to pay to dump Scuds (really unlikely) or trade Kunitz which would hurt the forward depth they want.

This looks like the Defense they will start the year with and can address the need at the deadline if they have to.

 

[IcedCapp]

Sundqvist doesn't project to be any more than a 3rd liner and he's already 21 so I think playing on the 4th line to start is okay. As long as it's a 4th line that plays regularly and is reasonably talented.

¡Sundqvist is a 7.0B, you pleb!

 

[Freeptop]

I agree. We're also in a real weird position defensively. We have no one in the minors, so we almost sort of have to carry 8 defensemen on the roster.

It's not as bad at this point, since they've made a few additions, though it's nowhere near what we've been used to the last few seasons.

Top 7: Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, Dumoulin, Lovejoy, Scuderi (even though I wish he weren't)
Depth in Minor Leagues: Erixon, Clendening, Oleksy, Warsofsky, Andersen, McNeill, O'Neill, Ruopp

Feel free to quibble about the ordering of the depth chart, as the only reason I went with that order was to show that you get 11 deep with players who have NHL games under their belt.

 

[wej20]

Sundqvist doesn't project to be any more than a 3rd liner and he's already 21 so I think playing on the 4th line to start is okay. As long as it's a 4th line that plays regularly and is reasonably talented.

Sticking him with Glass and Adams would have been a waste but with Bennett/Dupuis/Bonino/Kunitz/Plotnikov/Fehr, that could definitely work.

 

[Jacob]

I think it's too early to say that. Scott Hartnell didn't look like a top-six winger when he first started in Nashville, but he turned into an ideal complementary winger over time.

On his own, Sundqvist doesn't seem like a top sixer but on the wing next to Crosby and Hornqvist (for example)? I absolutely could see that working.

Scott Hartnell was drafted 6th overall. He was always expected to be a top 6 winger.

 

[billybudd]

Sticking him with Glass and Adams would have been a waste but with Bennett/Dupuis/Bonino/Kunitz/Plotnikov/Fehr, that could definitely work.

Yeah, I don't think playing him on a fourth line will be any sort of death sentence with the guys he'll be playing with. Judging by the depth of the roster, seems likely even strength ice time is going to flatten out next year. Only six to ten minute per night player I see who has a chance of making the club is Farnham.

Depends what he does in camp, obviously, but I see no reason why Oskar needs to spend a year in WB if he looks like he did in camp last year. This isn't Sheary, where he'll be a scorer or he won't make it and needs a ton of powerplay practice in order to develop the skills that will enable him to make the next step.

 

[Sam Spade]

This scares me... http://insidepittsburghsports.com/s...o-sign-fehr-pirates-steelers-talk-more/74369/

The part about his shoulder is absolutely true and the real thing the Pens should be concerned about.

Sounds like Letang and his problems but there is a big difference. Fehr is only getting $2 million a year and not $7.2 million like Letang.

So that makes the fact that he may play half the teams games ok? Poor allocation of money if you ask me.

Neither has Hornqvist, technically. The idea is that they're playoff-caliber players.

You may want to google Fehr's playoff numbers.

I will continue to think this deal is dumb and people will continue to say "it's only 2 mil". Fair enough.

 

[mpp9]

Yeah, I don't think playing him on a fourth line will be any sort of death sentence with the guys he'll be playing with. Judging by the depth of the roster, seems likely even strength ice time is going to flatten out next year. Only six to ten minute per night player I see who has a chance of making the club is Farnham.

Depends what he does in camp, obviously, but I see no reason why Oskar needs to spend a year in WB if he looks like he did in camp last year. This isn't Sheary, where he'll be a scorer or he won't make it and needs a ton of powerplay practice in order to develop the skills that will enable him to make the next step.

Only thing I worry about is footspeed and his place on the roster with Fehr back. Is a 4th line of Sundqvist-Bonino-Bennett quick enough to work?

 

[Black Label]

Sundqvist has already been playing 17-18 min/game in a league that is better than the AHL, he has nothing to gain in the AHL that he can't get from playing 3rd/4th line minutes in the NHL.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sundqvist has already been playing 17-18 min/game in a league that is better than the AHL, he has nothing to gain in the AHL that he can't get from playing 3rd/4th line minutes in the NHL.

There's always adjustments to be made on smaller ice. But like billybudd said, if he plays as well as he did in camp last year he should be in the big leagues regardless.