Line Combos: Pens Line Combo: A beautiful work in progress

[Zirakzigil]

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Lineup Analysis: What to Know Heading into 2022.23 | Pittsburgh Penguins

When describing the team identity of the Pittsburgh Penguins, Sidney Crosby would start with the word speed."And you can say the word experience," the captain added with a knowing grin. "That's another word that's been used a little bit more."

www.nhl.com

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell

Zucker-Malkin-Rust

Heinen-Carter-Kapanen

McGinn-Blueger-Archibald

(Poehling)​

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Letang-Dumoulin

Pettersson-Petry

3rd pairing TBD​

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Click to read more...

 

[Zirakzigil]

But he's part of the young core. Offer him 6 years 5M and let him work through this.

I know people are upset with it and some find it funny, but I'm already sick of the meme-ification of the Pens being the oldest team in the league.

Just wait til our guys turn 40

I appreciate it every day I compare it to White Castle.

Or canned asparagus.

What would Donkey Kong know about hockey? He’s never even been in a hockey game.

Now if he wants to talk about baseball, I’ll head him out. He was a menace in Mario Super Sluggers.

I’m pretty sure this info is coming from his staff, Haase and Shirely, who have been covering the Pens for his organization….DK hasn’t even stepped foot inside the Pens practice facility all preseason lol…

you still have the rest of the regular season to move some guys around. imo the real season is still a long way off.

It’s because POJ isn’t playing.

How much does the game #1 3LD matter though?

I feel like we always overreact to roster/lines/personnel and an entirely different set up is the norm by the new year.

I think the big issue in my opinion is we are purposefully not icing the best roster possible to keep an asset the staff and management don’t seem particularly sold on. Doesn’t make much sense to me.

I wonder if the claim of Zohorna spooked them a bit, I'd be curious if POJ were handled differently if Z cleared. Even if they don't particulary desire keeping POJ around it's more about not losing 2 players for nothing instead of 1.

Only matters if it's the difference in the game.

We're playing the Coyotes though. Just get some big goals from the top guys for the W, pack it up and get ready for Tampa.

The Pens are a better, deeper organization by doing whatever they need to do in order to keep all of Smith, POJ, and Ruhwedel (and Friedman) in the organization.

Who honestly cares? We have Friedman through waivers so we essentially are 8 defensemen deep in terms of depth of injuries hit.

Zohorna was waived by his new team. If they are scared of losing POJ for nothing it’s time to get over it. Sullivan isn’t going to play him. We’ve seen this story 99 times.

Oh I'm with you, just hypothesizing from an asset management point of view. They obviously don't have any plans for POJ at this point.

Yeah, but the boards are called "Hockey's Future", so it's probably not too surprising that the oldest team gets mocked for it.

Though I'm not disagreeing that the mockery is getting old.

Almost as old as the team.

Long story about Sullivan by Yohe in The Athletic. Basically that Sullivan's demeanor and intelligence helped make him a perfect fit for this franchise.

Interesting quote from Rust, which should pretty much end any thought that they've ever tuned Sullivan out:
“I wouldn’t know much about other coaches to even make a comparison,” Rust said. “It’s just that, trust me, when Sully talks, we listen. He knows who needs a push. He knows who needs a pat on the back. I think all of that stuff makes a good coach. He just knows. Honestly, you kind of realize it the second you meet him, how smart he is, how much he trusts what he’s saying. He just knows.”

How Mike Sullivan and the Penguins became a perfect fit: 'He's the only coach for this team'

Once upon a time, Mike Sullivan had a chance encounter with Sidney Crosby and a few other Penguins' stars. The rest is history.

theathletic.com

So Poehling is obviously the 13th forward which is stupid as hell, but they don’t commit to a bottom pairing which is bizarre.

Let’s see how things play out.

The Tanger quotes are the most interesting to me - “You wouldn’t really want anyone else being your coach” - because his belief in Sully never came across as clear as Sid's or Genos'. But that's a real loud endorsement.

Us? Wait? And be patient?

Preposterous!

So was the nugget that Kessel still respects Sullivan even after their somewhat messy split.

Probably gained some perspective after toiling in Arizona and he’s been relatively candid about that.

Say what you want about the Kessel era Leafs but they were at least attempting to win.

POJ is gonna get the Rikko treatment. Bank it

 

[SEALBound]

Literally the lineup we all called once Heinen was signed. Zero surprise. Almost depressing how predictable it is.

 

[lettuceAA]

A really great line up imo when healthy. I would love Zucker to stay healthy and see what him, a motivated Malkin and Rust can do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Could Chad Ruhwedel be keeping his lineup spot? If so, he'll be ready

No, Chad Ruhwedel didn’t make it onto any Norris Trophy ballots last season. But the veteran defenseman proved plenty as he was a wire-to-wire regular...

www.post-gazette.com

Ruhwedel is 100% playing over POJ lol

I also really respect how willing Ruhwedel is to be in a depth role. You know there are players in his shoes who would be mad that they lost out on their role like Ruhwedel did, but he seems to be a true professional. Also this comment by Ruhwedel makes another point that Sullivan never trying anything outside of Smith-Ruuta in the pre-season was stupid:

One is the Penguins will be unable to create a roster spot for Smith, and Ruhwedel will be asked to skate on the left side. That is something he hasn’t done since February 2020, when he played a game in Anaheim with fellow righty Zach Trotman.

“It’s been a little while. But it’s something I’ll get used to if it does come about,” he said. “It’s about getting yourself in the right position because you’re so used to turning certain ways and defending on the opposite side. Just getting used to that will take some practice. If it does come about, I’ll hopefully be ready for it.”

I'll reiterate, if this team was willing to do this to Smith, why did they try literally no alternatives to Smith-Rutta in the pre-season?

 

[SEALBound]

Could Chad Ruhwedel be keeping his lineup spot? If so, he'll be ready

No, Chad Ruhwedel didn’t make it onto any Norris Trophy ballots last season. But the veteran defenseman proved plenty as he was a wire-to-wire regular...

www.post-gazette.com

Ruhwedel is 100% playing over POJ lol

I also really respect how willing Ruhwedel is to be in a depth role. You know there are players in his shoes who would be mad that they lost out on their role like Ruhwedel did, but he seems to be a true professional. Also this comment by Ruhwedel makes another point that Sullivan never trying anything outside of Smith-Ruuta in the pre-season was stupid:



I'll reiterate, if this team was willing to do this to Smith, why did they try literally no alternatives to Smith-Rutta in the pre-season?

He's not flashy but he's played very well for us in a bottom pairing 5/6/7 role and at worst, he's a meh #4. I think we overlook him too often, especially after his play last season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Could Chad Ruhwedel be keeping his lineup spot? If so, he'll be ready

No, Chad Ruhwedel didn’t make it onto any Norris Trophy ballots last season. But the veteran defenseman proved plenty as he was a wire-to-wire regular...

www.post-gazette.com

Ruhwedel is 100% playing over POJ lol

I also really respect how willing Ruhwedel is to be in a depth role. You know there are players in his shoes who would be mad that they lost out on their role like Ruhwedel did, but he seems to be a true professional. Also this comment by Ruhwedel makes another point that Sullivan never trying anything outside of Smith-Ruuta in the pre-season was stupid:



I'll reiterate, if this team was willing to do this to Smith, why did they try literally no alternatives to Smith-Rutta in the pre-season?

Why keep POJ if Ruhwedel is playing and Friedman is able to be brought up? This is moronic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why keep POJ if Ruhwedel is playing and Friedman is able to be brought up? This is moronic.

I'm more and more convinced it's about "we want 9 NHL caliber D" than "we want to keep POJ".

They don't seem to be all that interested in him, they just don't want to lose him without getting a replacement back.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm more and more convinced it's about "we want 9 NHL caliber D" than "we want to keep POJ".

They don't seem to be all that interested in him, they just don't want to lose him without getting a replacement back.

Moronic. This is why I hated resigning Ruhwedel.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Moronic. This is why I hated resigning Ruhwedel.

I don't think Ruhwedel has anything to do with this. Ruhwedel should be the 7th D and should have been re-signed.

They just need to waive POJ and send him to WBS, or trade him for someone who can get put in WBS. They should have 7 D with Friedman and POJ or whoever you get for POJ in the minors.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Ruhwedel has anything to do with this. Ruhwedel should be the 7th D and should have been re-signed.

They just need to waive POJ and send him to WBS, or trade him for someone who can get put in WBS. They should have 7 D with Friedman and POJ or whoever you get for POJ in the minors.

Ruhwedel is ZAR of the D. He's harmless in a vacuum, but Sully is going to consistently default to him as if he is a legit NHL every day guy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ruhwedel is ZAR of the D. He's harmless in a vacuum, but Sully is going to consistently default to him as if he is a legit NHL every day guy.

I seriously doubt that Sullivan will play Ruhwedel over Smith. He'll play Ruhwedel over POJ because POJ isn't very good and the team doesn't like him. He'll only play Ruhwedel over Smith if Smith starts stinking.

Ruhwedel was a regular last year, but he played in only 17 games in 2020-2021. Sullivan won't force Ruhwedel into a starter's role unless he has to. That's why Ruhwedel in that role is so appealing, he's shown he can basically be a minuteman player and Sullivan isn't insistent on scratching other players to get him in the lineup.

 

[Gurglesons]

I seriously doubt that Sullivan will play Ruhwedel over Smith. He'll play Ruhwedel over POJ because POJ isn't very good and the team doesn't like him. He'll only play Ruhwedel over Smith if Smith starts stinking.

Ruhwedel was a regular last year, but he played in only 17 games in 2020-2021. Sullivan won't force Ruhwedel into a starter's role unless he has to. That's why Ruhwedel in that role is so appealing, he's shown he can basically be a minuteman player and Sullivan isn't insistent on scratching other players to get him in the lineup.

No reason Ruhwedel should play over POJ if we are keeping POJ on the NHL roster.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No reason Ruhwedel should play over POJ if we are keeping POJ on the NHL roster.

The problem here is that they shouldn't be keeping POJ on the NHL roster, not that they're playing Ruhwedel over him.

Ruhwedel should be playing over him because Ruhwedel is better. POJ just shouldn't be on the NHL team.

 

[Gurglesons]

The problem here is that they shouldn't be keeping POJ on the NHL roster, not that they're playing Ruhwedel over him.

Ruhwedel should be playing over him because Ruhwedel is better. POJ just shouldn't be on the NHL team.

Well they've forced themselves into the situation so if POJ is up there is no excuse for not playing him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well they've forced themselves into the situation so if POJ is up there is no excuse for not playing him.

That's just stupidity on their part, I don't think they should have to double down on that stupidity. They just need to admit they are wrong.

The mistake here isn't re-signing Ruhwedel and playing him over POJ, it's keeping a guy on the roster that Sullivan would sooner put Ruhwedel on LD than play. You shouldn't play him because he's on the roster, you should take him off the roster because Sullivan won't play him. And frankly, POJ probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.

POJ is just this year's version of 2018 Sprong. He has to stay up because he's waiver eligible, but he hasn't shown anything to warrant actually being in the lineup and Sullivan doesn't want him in the lineup. I just hope Hextall pulls the plug faster than it took JR to pull the plug on Sprong.

By the way, we don't really disagree much here. I just think the solution is to get rid of POJ instead of play POJ.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's just stupidity on their part, I don't think they should have to double down on that stupidity. They just need to admit they are wrong.

The mistake here isn't re-signing Ruhwedel and playing him over POJ, it's keeping a guy on the roster that Sullivan would sooner put Ruhwedel on LD than play. You shouldn't play him because he's on the roster, you should take him off the roster because Sullivan won't play him. And frankly, POJ probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.

POJ is just this year's version of 2018 Sprong. He has to stay up because he's waiver eligible, but he hasn't shown anything to warrant actually being in the lineup and Sullivan doesn't want him in the lineup. I just hope Hextall pulls the plug faster than it took JR to pull the plug on Sprong.

By the way, we don't really disagree much here. I just think the solution is to get rid of POJ instead of play POJ.

He can easily play 12-15 minutes a night.

Not using Poehling or POJ is typical Sullivan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think POJ and Ruhwedel are pretty close. You go with POJ if you have faith he has a higher ceiling and you have the patience to help him get there. You go with Ruhwedel if you don't want to bother, and just want a default 7th d-man that's familiar with the team/system already, and the pace of the NHL game.

No wrong answer, imo. Neither are any good. It's kind of a mountain out of a molehill thing.

-edit- I'd go with POJ. Not that I think any highly of him at all, but Ruhwedel is what he is and will always be there if/when POJ bombs out of the lineup.

I'd *rather* go with Smith-Rutta above all other options, but cap stuff. /shrug

 

[Andy99]

Should any of these guys be on the Pens roster? Yes, there’s more than just points involved in playing hockey but person #1 has a vet minimum contract and no hockey sense but scores more…Person #2 also has no hockey sense and costs $3.2M for multiple years, and Person #3 adds little except PKing and costs $2.75M for multiple years…I’m kinda thinking I’d rather have #1 lol…

Sprong: .23 G/pg (202 NHL games)
Kapanen: .20 G/pg (321 NHL games)
McGinn: .15 G/pG (409 NHL games)

I think POJ and Ruhwedel are pretty close. You go with POJ if you have faith he has a higher ceiling and you have the patience to help him get there. You go with Ruhwedel if you don't want to bother, and just want a default 7th d-man that's familiar with the team/system already, and the pace of the NHL game.

No wrong answer, imo. Neither are any good. It's kind of a mountain out of a molehill thing.

Yes, my opinion as well is play POJ to start…if he sucks, then fine, switch to Chad, Mr Path of Least Resistance…but only good things can come from playing POJ and having him do well…

 

[K Fleur]

Maybe when Zucker-Malkin-Rust are all peaking in their 40’s that line will start working.

 

[Gurglesons]

Should any of these guys be on the Pens roster? Yes, there’s more than just points involved in playing hockey but person #1 has a vet minimum contract and no hockey sense but scores more…Person #2 also has no hockey sense and costs $3.2M for multiple years, and Person #3 adds little except PKing and costs $2.75M for multiple years…I’m kinda thinking I’d rather have #1 lol…

Sprong: .23 G/pg (202 NHL games)
Kapanen: .20 G/pg (321 NHL games)
McGinn: .15 G/pG (409 NHL games)


Yes, my opinion as well is play POJ to start…if he sucks, then fine, switch to Chad, Mr Path of Least Resistance…but only good things can come from playing POJ and having him do well…

The Sprong argument is silly Andy.

 

[Peat]

The problem here is that they shouldn't be keeping POJ on the NHL roster, not that they're playing Ruhwedel over him.

Ruhwedel should be playing over him because Ruhwedel is better. POJ just shouldn't be on the NHL team.

Ruhwedel on his off side which he hardly ever plays better than POJ?

Even if he is, is it really going to make a major difference to how many points we pick up?

 

[Gurglesons]

Ruhwedel on his off side which he hardly ever plays better than POJ?

Even if he is, is it really going to make a major difference to how many points we pick up?

Yeah if we are going to bring up Sprong the issue when Sprong was here was that we also had Simon who was a similar age and just played a more complete game and so Sprong was miscast in a L4 role which lended some evidence to why he should be scratched.

There is no evidence of why Ruhwedel should play over POJ that is not damning to Sullivan.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't understand why the coaching staff won't just play POJ instead of Ruhwedel. Yes, I know, "Sullivan trusts the vet". But we're talking about friggin' Game 1 of an 82 game schedule, not Game 7 of a playoff series where it's do or die.

Give POJ a handful of games since they kept him up over Smith anyway and see what they have. Worst case scenario is he stinks, they dump him on waivers and Ruhwedel takes over until they can find the space to recall Smith.

I just think it's dumb to play "safe" this early in the year. This is the time of the season they should be experimenting instead of treating the games like they're playoff games.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't understand why the coaching staff won't just play POJ instead of Ruhwedel. Yes, I know, "Sullivan trusts the vet". But we're talking about friggin' Game 1 of an 82 game schedule, not Game 7 of a playoff series where it's do or die.

Give POJ a handful of games since they kept him up over Smith anyway and see what they have. Worst case scenario is he stinks, they dump him on waivers and Ruhwedel takes over until they can find the space to recall Smith.

I just think it's dumb to play "safe" this early in the year. This is the time of the season they should be experimenting instead of treating the games like they're playoff games.

The argument should made with both Poehling and POJ tbh.

The whole benefit of the trades this summer was getting two potential young players with skill sets that added some needs to our roster.

Poehling is a defensive sound, big body that forechecks well and can play all situations.

Smith was an offensive D who could help ease Matheson.

By playing neither we’ve effectively drowned out any possibility of maximizing the value of either trade.