Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Rudy Russo]

They gave up nothing that matters for a great player.

Did we lose the Hossa deal?

Hell no. Looking back getting Dupuis for Armstrong, Christensen, Esposito and a 1st round pick who never played one NHL game would of been a great trade. Even only having Hossa for one playoff year did get the penguins to the finals.

 

[Pancakes]

They traded nothing of consequence for Jake Guentzel.

They have every young prospect that is going to help them be a future good team and traded nobody off their roster that mattered.

Such a bizarre take. Guentzel trade was an absolute home run for them.

The Canes will probably re-sign Guentzel as well.

 

[Ryder71]

The Canes will probably re-sign Guentzel as well.

Doubt it, but even so I wouldn't want Jake back, I don't think he'll age well. I'd bet he'll go somewhere else besides CAR and PIT. Somewhere mid west probably.

 

[Pancakes]

Doubt it, but even so I wouldn't want Jake back, I don't think he'll age well. I'd bet he'll go somewhere else besides CAR and PIT. Somewhere mid west probably.

I'd take him back if the price were right. Jake-Sid-Rust Rakell-Malkin-Bunting is a pretty nice top six.

Probably not happening though. He sold his house here, and allegedly wasn't enthused with how Dubas approached contract negotiations. On top of that, the Pens don't have the cap space.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Canes re-sign Guentzel, then yes the deal immediately becomes great for them again. Still, I really don’t understand what kind of galaxy brain thinking you have to do to suggest that the Guentzel trade was a “home run” if he’s just a rental. At absolute best, they gave up nothing of significance for a guy that didn’t help them win. Their season result wouldn’t have changed at all had they never traded for Guentzel in the first place.

 

[Jacob]

I could see Kunin not being QOed by San Jose. He’s not exactly brimming with offensive upside but he’s the right age we should be targeting if it’s cheap. Showed some promise at one point as a middle-6 guy but mostly settled in as a bottom 6er more recently, but maybe there’s still more there.

 

[JRS91]

Imagine if Guentzel re-signs with the Penguins.

 

[66-30-33]

f*** you Freddie Anderson

No f***in message needed f*** this f***ing fraud. Lost us the game tonight and was shit all series

forums.hfboards.com

Saw a poster saying he doesn't care if he dies...wtf???

Imagine if Guentzel re-signs with the Penguins.

Need to get younger. We can't make the playoffs with him, let's go a different direction.

Well, we aint making it next year or the year after but still. As long as we have that con man coaching, we done.

 

[deakka]

Guentzel trade even worse now i guess since we only get 2nd round pick?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm sure glad we got a Finn and a bunch of bottom 6 guys for Guentzel. The 2nd is just pure chef's kiss.

 

[orby]

The Guentzel trade was fine. People had inflated expectations of the return based on pure speculation. Bunting is a very good player, and they got two prospects who will almost certainly be in the NHL within a couple of years too. Maybe some team would have offered a better package of picks and prospects, but Dubas wanted Bunting, and frankly, it's easy to see why. Had they kept Guentzel, they'd still have missed the playoffs and they'd almost certainly be losing him for nothing this off-season. It was the right move.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Bobby Ryan's cap hit counted towards the Senators when he was in the player's assistance program in 2019.

Then why would Nuke's recent suspensions not have counted? Ryan wasn't in Stage 3.

Maybe something changed in the CBA?

The reason the Canes "lost" the Guentzel deal is that they traded for him to go on a cup run, but they lost in the 2nd round. Even if you want to be disingenuous and argue that Koivunen and Ponomarev are nothing pieces (which Canes fans will tell you is wrong), the point is that they could have targeted bigger needs and/or longer term solutions than trading a lot for Guentzel. This is fundamentally the risk with any rentals, in that you losing means trading for the rental was pointless, but it's especially true with higher priced rentals.

Maybe you can argue that they didn't pay that much in terms of value for Guentzel, but the fact is that they paid that value to lose in the 2nd round and basically threw it away for nothing. The Canes would have made the 2nd round with or without Guentzel and trading what they traded for him didn't move the needle for them whatsoever. They basically gave up Bunting, 3 prospects (one of which is highly regarded by scouts) and a 2nd to not change how their season ended up going.

It's the same way that Shero would lose all of those deadline deals when he'd trade a 2nd and Caputi for Ponikarovsky or when JR lost deadline deals when he'd pay a 2nd for Winnik. Maybe they didn't pay anything that mattered, but they basically threw away assets that didn't tangibly move the needle for their team. With the Guentzel trade, they just gave up a lot for that. The purpose of that trade was to win a cup, not get a nice 15 game run of regular season production and then lose earlier in the playoffs this year than they did last year.

A contender maks those trades for an opportunity, nothing more. Nobody has a crystal ball.

 

[deakka]

Package is fine. Just lame.we couldnt get a late 1st at least

 

[molon labe]

Saw a poster saying he doesn't care if he dies...wtf???


Need to get younger. We can't make the playoffs with him, let's go a different direction.

Well, we aint making it next year or the year after but still. As long as we have that con man coaching, we done.

Deleting Guentz from the roster just showed how inept everyone has been. (Edit: NOT the trade, I liked trading him - but how removing 1 piece from a roster made it significantly more hole-ish).

Couldn't make it / have success with him - couldn't make it or even create a halfway complete roster without him.

They need two top 6 pieces - hopefully they're both in their 20s (this assumes we send R.Smith packing). Marner would still be a huge add for them but it obviuosly can't just start and stop there (like Karlsson last Summer). You need more bolstering than that.

Still baffling folks are leaning on Geno to be a 2C for a full season again...and think that's competitive. Been a one line team for more than two years now and folks are looking at DOC top line and thinking we're good to go. Genuinely curious how/where folks think we get into the playoffs next year? The Islanders are the only debatable team this year so now we're fighting over a single playoff spot with what improvement exactly? I guess nothing matters with the Sullivan/Jarry marriage anymore.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I'd rather get Necas than Guentzel, but that's me. Though yeah, it would be tough to get an RFA,

I think Carolina has a place for Guentzel, but I don't them overpaying for him. My gut is he prices himself out of Carolina and Pittsburgh.

 

[Sideline]

I'd rather get Necas than Guentzel, but that's me. Though yeah, it would be tough to get an RFA,

I think Carolina has a place for Guentzel, but I don't them overpaying for him. My gut is he prices himself out of Carolina and Pittsburgh.

It wouldn't shock me if the Leafs moved off Marner and brought in Guentzel. There's a narrative that the Leafs aren't a "playoff" team and Marne seems like the prime target for hate in the media. Jake is exactly the kind of clutch player they could market. I think it would be dumb, but I think the Leafs are dumb.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

No real desire to see Jake back, even at a discount. At best you're getting reruns of the same dogshit we've been watching for years. At worst, you're locked into a guy who is gonna be untradeable in a few years when Sid's done because of how stupid his contract is gonna be re: term, dollar amount, and NTC.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Package is fine. Just lame.we couldnt get a late 1st at least

The difference between a late 1st and a mid 2nd is marginal. The pick they got was #44 overall, the difference between that and #31 overall (had the Canes sent their 1st by making the cup finals) is not that significant in terms of the quality of prospect you can get.

Then why would Nuke's recent suspensions not have counted? Ryan wasn't in Stage 3.

Maybe something changed in the CBA?


A contender maks those trades for an opportunity, nothing more. Nobody has a crystal ball.

Yes and that opportunity ended up failing, which means paying those assets for a rental was a failure.

They lost earlier in the playoffs this year than they did last year. Who cares what kind of regular season production Guentzel had? When the point of the trade was to go on a cup run, and they didn’t do that, the trade was obviously a failure.

 

[Ryder71]

We weren't gonna win with Jake, at least we got a quality mid 6 forward in Bunting with term, Koivunen who could be a good player for us in a couple years. PONO, who made the Canes out of camp but got injured. In addition to a C+ level prospects that may or may not develop and a 44OA pick (to go with our 46th OA pick).

OR, we could have lost Jake for nothing.

Jake won't age well, maybe a couple of years and then he'll fall off a cliff. So glad he's gone.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know I'm late to the party here but lol... Hurricanes. I wonder if we'll finally get to stop hearing about what an incredible bunch of wonderboys they are until they actually... you know... win something.

It DOES suck that they couldn't take down NY, though. Much as I roll my eyes at Carolina I utterly despise the Rangers.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't really want Guentzel back.

If we had a different coach and had moved Rust, I'd do it, but I can't see Guentzel - Crosby - Rust anymore.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Why would the team want to bring Jake back at like 9ish million?

They arguably played better without him once they were done f***ing pouting about it.

Plus like Gurgs said... Jake is a one-note, one line player here and will also be shoehorned right back on the powerplay to boot.

 

[orby]

I agree with those who say the Pens should move on from Guentzel. If it wasn't working with him before, it's not going to work with him from here on out, especially if his cap hit increases significantly (which it will). He's a very good player, and a young team that is knocking at the door should absolutely pay him...but the Pens need to hit home runs with younger players on cheaper contracts if they want to have any chance of competing for a cup again before Crosby retires.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't really want Guentzel back.

If we had a different coach and had moved Rust, I'd do it, but I can't see Guentzel - Crosby - Rust anymore.

This is exactly why I think bringing back Guentzel would be a mistake. You know he's just going to slide back into his old role on Crosby's LW and the net front PP guy. It's a silly allocation of money for the role.

If you're spending that kind of money on anyone, go after a RW for Malkin.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is exactly why I think bringing back Guentzel would be a mistake. You know he's just going to slide back into his old role on Crosby's LW and the net front PP guy. It's a silly allocation of money for the role.

If you're spending that kind of money on anyone, go after a RW for Malkin.

There is nobody realistically that will be available via trade or UFA that makes sense spending that type of money.

The trade options should be a player like Ehlers who is UFA and we can flip if the team isn't a playoff team or a bad contract like PLD that we can dump salary on if we make a trade.

PLD / Ehlers - Crosby - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - Rakell