Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm so f***ing sick of the reverence placed at Rust's feet by this franchise.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm so f***ing sick of the reverence placed at Rust's feet by this franchise.

He's a fine enough player but you'd think the Penguins drafted and developed some meteoric superstar judging by the praise and assurances heaped at his feet.

You gotta take what feathers in your cap you can get when you haven't developed hardly any homegrown talent in like a decade I suppose.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Rust is good

No doubt. He was better than the last few years, last year.

But i think he is at the point where, you pivot away. His upside is likely at its highest and if you want to retool, this is when you do it. But we're locked in NMC.

It's nearly the same thing with Jake... Except we botched that too (in a min-max way).

And by the end, Rust'll have such "low value" as a trade asset, that we'll just end up re-signing him on our downward trend of getting locked into diminishing contracts.

 

[chethejet]

Rust is a perfect player for a team in need of a piece that they believe puts them in cup contention. Thus a number 1 picks and possibly a decent prospect come s back. Always thought the Red Wings would be a fit.

 

[orby]

Rust is a very good supporting player. On a good line he will score 60+ points without much fuss. He's not the kind of guy you want to rely on to drive the offense, though. I think similar thoughts about Rakell, Smith, and even Bunting. All of these guys are good, at least in a vacuum, but are ideally the third wheel on a line with two other guys who can create offense. As Crosby and (especially) Malkin age, you can't keep surrounding them with third wheels and expect the top 6 to stack up against teams like Edmonton, Colorado, etc. I also don't love the idea of leaving DOC on the first line long-term. He reminds me of Dupuis; a middle 6 type guy who can play L1 in a pinch, but shouldn't be relied upon as an everyday first liner.

If Rust is gonna stick around, I think you definitely have to move one of Rakell or Smith and try to bring in a more dynamic player in their place. Smith is an obvious candidate for an offseason trade considering he looked like doodoo for most of the year, but he also probably has very low value at the moment. I think Rakell was playing injured early on and that dragged his numbers down substantially, but by the end of the year he was doing okay; even so, I don't think he's the kind of guy you desperately need to keep around in a situation like the Pens are in. He 's a 50-60 point guy. That is replaceable.

 

[MeinerEiner]

Dubas had multiple teams interested in Rust and Smith, but couldn’t figure it out.

That’s the difference between this team and LA / NYR.

I think it was a good decision to not trade Smith with the prices that were paid at the TDL. Having him on an expiring contract changes the parameters and he should be as good as gone. IMO they should trade Eller as well at some point next season.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Those Rust and Smith tidbits are straight Rossi crap. I'm not going to be too strenuous to defend Dubas but the point is that Rossi gives us absolutely nothing of substance, we should all know that by now.

Vegas called up and said "Hey, we'll take Smith back at 50% retained for our 6th and a free ride on the Venetian gondola!" and Dubas rightfully told them to stick it, well Rossi would report that as interest in Reilly Smith.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Those Rust and Smith tidbits are straight Rossi crap. I'm not going to be too strenuous to defend Dubas but the point is that Rossi gives us absolutely nothing of substance, we should all know that by now.

Vegas called up and said "Hey, we'll take Smith back at 50% retained for our 6th and a free ride on the Venetian gondola!" and Dubas rightfully told them to stick it, well Rossi would report that as interest in Reilly Smith.

Yeah but it was "per league sources."

That's some ironclad shit, buddy.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Yeah but it was "per league sources."

That's some ironclad shit, buddy.

That means Rossi had Yohe text Rutherford first to make sure it was okay to print.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That means Rossi had Yohe text Rutherford first to make sure it was okay to print.

More likely WE'RE "per league sources."

Hear that guys? We're in the journalism business, now!

 

[Ulf5]

I think it was a good decision to not trade Smith with the prices that were paid at the TDL. Having him on an expiring contract changes the parameters and he should be as good as gone. IMO they should trade Eller as well at some point next season.

I'm sure there was plenty of interest. With retention. Afaik there was one forward with a substantial cap hit moved without retention- Zucker. And we see the return. No thanks.

 

[Gurglesons]

Those Rust and Smith tidbits are straight Rossi crap. I'm not going to be too strenuous to defend Dubas but the point is that Rossi gives us absolutely nothing of substance, we should all know that by now.

Vegas called up and said "Hey, we'll take Smith back at 50% retained for our 6th and a free ride on the Venetian gondola!" and Dubas rightfully told them to stick it, well Rossi would report that as interest in Reilly Smith.

If Hertl could get moved, we could've moved Rust and Smith.

Dubas doesn't need any excuses.

 

[Deport Ogie]

If Hertl could get moved, we could've moved Rust and Smith.

Dubas doesn't need any excuses.

What you're saying is "if obviously-tanking San Jose could get bent over the table dry for Hertl, apparently-attempting-to-still-compete Pittsburgh could have gotten bent over the table dry for Rust and Smith." In that case yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I'm not making excuses for Dubas. I'm evaluating reality. They could have traded both of them but likely not for a good return. So what! you exclaim...they should be rebuilding! Maybe, but you explain that to 87 then. Again, reality. Not a video game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The issue is more "Rust, Raks, Smith... friggin pick one and burn the rest" and less "lol Rust sucks."

Team has too many third wheel players with roughly the same unremarkable skillsets.

 

[MrBrightside]

The issue is more "Rust, Raks, Smith... friggin pick one and burn the rest" and less "lol Rust sucks."

Team has too many third wheel players with roughly the same unremarkable skillsets.

I was just about to say this. The treatment of Rust like he's garbage all because people hate Sullivan and therefore hate Rust is ridiculous. Rust is well worth his salary and the lumping him in with true dead weight is lazy and simply wrong.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, I'm not all that impressed with Rust's point totals and all that given the opportunities heaped upon him within this organization. He's fine, if not good, but the team acts like he's a genuine star player. It's nauseating, and a symptom of the greater problem of how this dysfunctional, arrogant team operates and evaluates.

 

[orby]

Yeah, I'm not all that impressed with Rust's point totals and all that given the opportunities heaped upon him within this organization. He's fine, if not good, but the team acts like he's a genuine star player. It's nauseating, and a symptom of the greater problem of how this dysfunctional, arrogant team operates and evaluates.

I seem to remember an interview with Mario, or someone else high up in the Pens' org, from around the time when they fired Shero. Lemieux realized that the team was positioned such that losing Jussi Jokinen - basically the archetypal middle 6 supporting player - would be a major blow to the offense as a whole. That is a bad position to be in if you want to contend. You cannot have all your best wingers be middle-of-the-road guys.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I was just about to say this. The treatment of Rust like he's garbage all because people hate Sullivan and therefore hate Rust is ridiculous. Rust is well worth his salary and the lumping him in with true dead weight is lazy and simply wrong.

He's definitely not dead weight. But I agree with BFD that he is given MORE than ample opportunity all over the ice and in plum positions on this team by the coach and as such I tend to look at his point production on a bit of a curve. He's a decent supporting player in this league. He's not like... Marian Hossa, ya know?

 

[MrBrightside]

He's definitely not dead weight. But I agree with BFD that he is given MORE than ample opportunity all over the ice and in plum positions on this team by the coach and as such I tend to look at his point production on a bit of a curve. He's a decent supporting player in this league. He's not like... Marian Hossa, ya know?

Well no kidding. But he's a legitimate top 6 winger who helps on both ends of the ice and his salary isn't onerous.

Man. I can't fathom looking at this roster and thinking "yeah, Bryan Rust is one of the problems on this team that we need to fix."

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well no kidding. But he's a legitimate top 6 winger who helps on both ends of the ice and his salary isn't onerous.

Man. I can't fathom looking at this roster and thinking "yeah, Bryan Rust is one of the problems on this team that we need to fix."

I didn't say he was a problem. I didn't even say he wasn't worth what he is paid. I'm saying that the team loves to pump guys' tires and he's one of them despite being just... a pretty average middle six player league-wide. That's what he is. It isn't an insult.

He's been stapled to Sid Crosby's wing for years. When he isn't he plays next to Malkin who can still dish if nothing else. He also gets a lot of PP and EN time. His totals are good but when you factor stuff like that they are just kinda OK IMO.

EDIT: Any perceived hand-wringing of mine doesn't even have to do with Rust so much as it does the utter lack of playdriving wings on this team. Especially now that Jake is gonzo.

 

[MrBrightside]

I didn't say he was a problem. I didn't even say he wasn't worth what he is paid. I'm saying that the team loves to pump guys' tires and he's one of them despite being just... a pretty average middle six player league-wide. That's what he is. It isn't an insult.

He's been stapled to Sid Crosby's wing for years. When he isn't he plays next to Malkin who can still dish if nothing else. He also gets a lot of PP and EN time. His totals are good but when you factor stuff like that they are just kinda OK IMO.

Meh. He had 47 ES points in 62 games this season. That's more than a league average player, particularly when you factor in his defensive impact.

I dunno. Of all the players to look at I don't see this one. To each his own.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The angst re: Rust is purely a product of this organization's obsession with him and the overrating of him as a player. Again, he's fine, if not good, but he's by no means a core piece or someone they need to walk on egg shells around and all that.

Not Rust's fault, and more of an overarching issue with the team's evaluation and arrogance. It's just so "roll my eyes until I almost blackout" whenever I see shit like "Dubas and Sullivan approached Rust and promised he'd never be asked to waive, then kissed his ring and backed away bowing".

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think it was a good decision to not trade Smith with the prices that were paid at the TDL. Having him on an expiring contract changes the parameters and he should be as good as gone. IMO they should trade Eller as well at some point next season.

I have to agree the prices were pretty low this deadline.

Guentzel really got a solid return when you look at everything.
I still consider that trade to be 5 2nds.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not even being contentious when I say this but is Rust really a guy we can say has a "defensive impact?" My eyes say he's not a liability but impact? I dunno. I'm open to being wrong on that one if the numbers say so I just don't really see it game to game, myself.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think anybody on L1 is very good defensively tbh. Jake was the worst by far, but Sid and Rust aren't Bergeron out there either. That line regularly surrenders goals against when on the ice. /shrug