Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Zirakzigil]

No fighting in this thread, its the war room!

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[Zirakzigil]

We're definitely under more pressure to get out of those contracts than Ottawa is to get out of theirs.

If Jarry gets traded (which I doubt will happen, I think we missed our best chance at the TDL) I think it will be for a Markstrom type. No chance the Flames are on Jarry's list of tradable teams though. Maybe Samsonov? Tricky thing with goalie trades is getting the roster spots and cap right as there's almost always a goalie headed each way

Depending on the coach system that's entirely possible for a number of reasons.

A- folks here are going to say Malkin sucks regardless. So that's not that hot of a take.
B- in a better system Bunting SHOULD be on the third line and moved up/back down accordingly. Precisely like Hornqvist was. Granted at this point his first look should be with Geno whether Geno is on the wing or not. If we landed Kadri that would be a sick line.

This is a sad day when folks are just relegated to the fact that we have a scoring line, a sort of scoring line, then two lines of ass. You NEED 4 lines to score. What Sullivan has done isn't a theory at this point - it's a straight up fallacy/failure.

and how long do you think that will last?

Well unlike Rakell, Smith and Rust, his spot on PP1 is secure with our need for a net-front guy. So that makes those kinda numbers very attainable, yeah.

Cap needed to come back to make it work. Plus we needed a top-six winger, and they had the Leafs connection. It was an obvious choice, especially with Bunting being sorta meh in Carolina.

Yes, finally someone with a strong compete factor and swagger. Was desperately needed.


I could see him getting north of 50 points next year, with his PP1 spot virtually locked up. His career average is pretty solid.

One thing that's interesting to bring up at this point, I guess, is Sid's extension. Several people expect him to sign a 3yr extension...but for $10.5mil. I have no doubt he'll sign the extension. The years are irrelevant. The interesting discussion point is cap hit. Do we really think Sid is going to ask for $10.5mil? Or is it more reasonable to assume that he would want to stay in that $8.7mil range and take the discount the way Geno and Letang did in order to spread more money around?

Bunting exceeded expectations, but Guentz has 25 in 17 in carolina (and usually a garbage stat but also +16 in those 17 games). Sure he would walk this offseason but maybe those additoinal 6 points put the pens in the POs

9 PPP's in 17 games with Carolina. 13 in 50 games here.
25 points in 17 games was not possible here with our Power Play.

this!

Until he’s fully incorporated into Mike Sullivan’s impressive hockey system…

I have a few different takes about next season's roster. I actually think most of what we saw down the stretch should be what we roll with to begin 2024-25. With some changes, of course. But I believe that if the team we rolled out for MOST of this season was the lineup down the stretch, we would have comfortably made the playoffs. That means Joseph-Letang instead of healthy scratching the former because we had to play much lesser talent instead. Ryan Graves struggled for most of this season, but I think he was fine as the third-pairing LD. Too expensive for that role? Of course, but square pegs in round holes don't work either. And now he is coming off a concussion and the team took off without him. He should begin as St. Ivany's partner next season, imo.

And St. Ivany made a major impact in my opinion. Ruhwedel is exactly what Sullivan likes and exactly what Dubas needs to be rid of in order for this franchise to move forward. Ryan Shea? Meh. He is as good as he is ever going to be at 27 going on 28 next year. If they want to re-sign him on the cheap, fine. But Ludvig is younger and brings a different style, and Joseph is far more talented and just needs some love from the coaching staff. To me, I would not change much in terms of defensive personnel. Replace Shea with Graves and have Ludvig as the seventh D-man. We need new coaches to get the best out of this group.

We have to stop trading draft picks to make players go away. That needs to stop A S A P. Players that have positive trade value should be moved, and those that need to bounce back should stay. I believe Graves and Rakell should stay because they need to bounce back. I think this off-season is the perfect time to trade Lars Eller because he only has one year left and is coming off a strong season. Sullivan probably wants him back for sure, so trade him. Dubas needs to become the anti-Sullivan. The yin to the yang. At his best, that is what Rutherford was imo. Make Sullivan uncomfortable behind the bench, that is what we need. He never liked Phil Kessel, but he won with Phil Kessel. I don't know if Sullivan is comfortable with Erik Karlsson, so we need to keep Erik Karlsson. I think Year 2 is going to be a lot better for EK65, and I would not be surprised in the least if he led the Penguins in scoring in 2024-25. 90 points. I would not be surprised.

Up front, the top two left-wingers sold me down the stretch. I hated Michael Bunting with unnatural passion upon his arrival, but he has won me over. He is absolutely perfect for Geno. I don't care how old Geno is. With Bunting on his left side, he can be a point-per-game player again. No doubt in my mind. Is Rakell the right fit on the right wing? I don't think so. I think this is where Dubas needs to act this summer. I think we should bring in a RW to play with Bunting and Malkin. Sam Reinhart is probably the perfect fit, but we might not be able to pull that off. Steven Stamkos, even though he is old for what we want to do, could REALLY improve this power play. He also can take face-offs for Geno on one side, not that face-offs are a problem for this team. We can afford to slip a bit in that area because it was a luxury this season. I don't want to bring in any player over the age of 25 this off-season, but I think we could do an exception for a good fit for Line 2.

I don't want to mess with Crosby's line. O'Connor has more upside than I thought. His size and speed are absolutely perfect for the first line. I never liked Rust on the top line, but he proved me wrong with a strong season this year. I think he fits in better with Crosby and O'Connor than he did with Guentzel. My opinion. Sullivan is loathe to play Crosby will certain players with more upside, so this is as good as we can hope for. And honestly, they looked great down the stretch. Does O'Connor have another level?

The third line is the problem up front. I think we have enough players to fill out a competent fourth line next season. I assume Acciari will be back and assume that Jeff Carter role. I prefer him on the wing but without Carter, Sullivan will absolutely want Acciari down the middle. And I am OK with that so long as there is more talent on his line. We can't have Harkins-Acciari-Nieto, which is probably a Sullivan wet dream of a line. But guys like Puljujarvi, Bemstrom, Puustinen, Poulin et al should be decent there.

We need to not only trade Eller but Reilly Smith too. He is yet another good player who is not a Mike Sullivan player for some strange reason. Plus, I don't think he fits with either Crosby or Malkin. Not nearly as well as the other two LWs. And he only has a year left and has a great rep. Dubas should be able to fetch something for him.

I would like to see Rakell on the third line, with two younger players. And then maybe Acciari centering a fourth line with younger players. That third-line center position is interesting. We now have three internal options that we did not have last off-season, which necessitated the Eller signing. Poulin was coming off a personal leave of absence, so his future was cloudy. Yager was drafted in the first round. Ponomarev was acquired in the Guentzel trade. We should definitely see what we have in these three players before spending more dollars or draft capital via trade. I would like to see Rakell and Bemstrom together. I am a big believer in chemistry, and I have to think two Swedes on a line and two Finns on another line is better than one of each on two different lines. Maybe I am nitpicking, but chemistry is important.

And then there is the goaltending question. I don't think Dubas is tied to Jarry, per se. Yeah he signed him. He also let him test free agency before re-signing him. Dubas felt Jarry was the best goaltender available on the market, and he was probably right. He is also the one who signed Ned, so I don't think he would hesitate to make a change. The main reason to trade Jarry, at least for me, is that he can bring back more than Smith and more than Eller. We might be able to get back into the first round of the draft by dealing Jarry. If we can move on from Jarry, then we should go with Nedeljkovic and Blomqvist. Is the latter ready? Who knows. Nobody knows anything about goaltending and if they think they do, they are usually proven incorrect. I thought both Cam Talbot and Jonathan Quick were done as NHL goaltenders, and they both had resurgences this season. Stolarz had a career season. Alex Lyon continues to defy logic. Where did U-P Luukkonen come from? Etc. With goaltending, there will be ups and there will be downs. There are only a handful of goaltenders that teams know exactly what they are getting year over year.

Biggest change has to come behind the bench. New blood. New ideas. And an entirely different power-play setup.

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Reinhart?
Rakell-Yager-Bemstrom
Puljujarvi-Acciari-Puustinen
Poulin

Pettersson-Karlsson
Joseph-Letang
Graves-St. Ivany
Ludvig

Nedeljkovic
Blomqvist

Reinhart-Bunting-Crosby
Karlsson-Malkin

Bemstrom-Yager-Puljujarvi/Puustinen
Rakell-Letang


I would be fairly excited to see this lineup next season.

The goal of the Guentzel trade was never to replace Jake's production with a single person. We fully understood that we were giving up the best player.

Which is why we got:

Bunting
Ponomarev
Koivunen
Lucius
Cond 1st / 2nd
5th

PK tried to say the same thing but if Jake was going to "help THAT much" he would have done so over the course of the season and we wouldn't have been in the spot we were. And if they didn't make the trade and missed, Dubas would have looked quite the fool. Instead, he got back Bunting and a plethora of talent. He is now able to add 4 additional players to our bleak prospect pool which getting a nearly PPG player who fit very well.

Anyone who thinks that trade was bad still, is a f***ing idiot. Plain and simple.

 

[Zbynek]

Sid's extension will be at $8.7 for sure. For however many years he decides on.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Sid's extension will be at $8.7 for sure. For however many years he decides on.

I could see him taking a pay cut actually, but 87 will be in there somehow. 1 year at 6.87mil or 2 years at 8.7mil total (4.35mil a year). Something like that.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I could see him taking a pay cut actually, but 87 will be in there somehow. 1 year at 6.87mil or 2 years at 8.7mil total (4.35mil a year). Something like that.

Taking 8.7 a year is already a pay cut.

The only way he takes less in my opinion is if he decided not to take an extension and chase cups. Imagine Crosby playing for the AVs on a random 3rd line for 2 million. Stacked.

 

[Jacob]

4 years $870,087 per year. 2-way deal, making $87,087 if he gets sent down.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Taking 8.7 a year is already a pay cut.

The only way he takes less in my opinion is if he decided not to take an extension and chase cups. Imagine Crosby playing for the AVs on a random 3rd line for 2 million. Stacked.

I dont see him chasing a cup. I think playing for a single team means more to him than that. I can easily see him taking a pay cut to get another player or two here. Tells Dubas to bring Jake back no matter what and he signs for X amount to make it happen.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bunting's analytic profile is not necessarily vibing with what he produced. Similar to Rakell last year.

I would be shocked if we don't see a drop off.

Sid's extension will be at $8.7 for sure. For however many years he decides on.

Lots of reporting saying it'll be in the 10 mil range. If we can get him at 8.7 that'd be great.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bunting's analytic profile is not necessarily vibing with what he produced. Similar to Rakell last year.

I would be shocked if we don't see a drop off.

Well yeah, there's no way that Bunting continues at a 19 point in 21 game pace.

Just like with Rakell, the expectation for Bunting should be like 20 goals and 50 points. Maybe give Bunting a bit more because he'll be on the top PP unit, but not a ton more.

The more important thing is that he continues to be a strong forechecker and win puck battles for Malkin and Rakell. That line has the makeup of a strong 2nd line if they can all do their jobs IMO.

Sid's extension will be at $8.7 for sure. For however many years he decides on.

Yeah I have no doubt he's going to keep the $8.7 million AAV. I'm thinking 3 years at that AAV.

 

[Zbynek]

Bunting's analytic profile is not necessarily vibing with what he produced. Similar to Rakell last year.

I would be shocked if we don't see a drop off.



Lots of reporting saying it'll be in the 10 mil range. If we can get him at 8.7 that'd be great.

I feel like 10 mil is market price given his age. Factor in the hometown special and superstition element and you've got 8.7.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like 10 mil is market price given his age. Factor in the hometown special and superstition element and you've got 8.7.

Would be cool.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Sid will take 8.7*3 to end his career w/ Tang in 2028

 

[JRS91]

I'd personally put Rakell on the first line with Crosby and Rust.

Those three together are really good, and Rakell always plays his best hockey with Crosby. He did fine with Bunting and Malkin, but I think he'd do a lot better on Crosby's line.

 

[molon labe]

I'd personally put Rakell on the first line with Crosby and Rust.

Those three together are really good, and Rakell always plays his best hockey with Crosby. He did fine with Bunting and Malkin, but I think he'd do a lot better on Crosby's line.

Rust - Crosby - Rakell
Geno - Kadri - Bunting

Make it so.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rust - Crosby - Rakell
Geno - Kadri - Bunting

Make it so.

I don't think Calgary is moving Kadri after his year tbh.

 

[molon labe]

I don't think Calgary is moving Kadri after his year tbh.

The only way they don't is if they bring in a significant piece that pushes them into a belief of playoffs. But after a couple of pretty up and mostly down seasons here - I think the consensus take for the Flames is they should start over.

A team that does that has zero reason to hold on to a 33/34 y/o under contract for 5 more years.

Looking at the Flames salary situation - starting this coming season they have zero salary retention slots taken up - and only JH, Kadri, and Weegar signed long term. They are literally 2 seasons TOPS from a complete rebuild if they are willing to get frisky on the trade front.

I think that's why folks think they might do it. JH is not completely immovable but he might require a bad piece(s) coming back. But what if those pieces have less term/money? You can work yourself out of it in 2-3 moves versus just one.

I'm not certain either way but I personally feel Kadri is 100% available.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

When people make a lineup with a player like Kadri, it always annoys me they don't provide how that player is obtained. Show your work......

 

[Gurglesons]

The only way they don't is if they bring in a significant piece that pushes them into a belief of playoffs. But after a couple of pretty up and mostly down seasons here - I think the consensus take for the Flames is they should start over.

A team that does that has zero reason to hold on to a 33/34 y/o under contract for 5 more years.

Looking at the Flames salary situation - starting this coming season they have zero salary retention slots taken up - and only JH, Kadri, and Weegar signed long term. They are literally 2 seasons TOPS from a complete rebuild if they are willing to get frisky on the trade front.

I think that's why folks think they might do it. JH is not completely immovable but he might require a bad piece(s) coming back. But what if those pieces have less term/money? You can work yourself out of it in 2-3 moves versus just one.

I'm not certain either way but I personally feel Kadri is 100% available.

So are you paying actually assets for Kadri?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just throwing some shit at the wall:

-Jarry to San Jose for Blackwood and Tampa's 2024 3rd
-Smith at $3 million to Vegas for McNabb
-Tampa's 2024 3rd and Nieto to Ottawa for Joseph

-Sign Lafferty (2 years at $2 million) and Lindholm (2 years at $5 million) in UFA
-Re-sign Puustinen (2 years at $1.5 million), Poulin (1 year at $800k), St. Ivany (1 year at $800k), and Nedjelkovic (2 years at $3 million)

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Joseph-Lindholm-Puustinen
Lafferty-Eller-Acciari
Poulin-Puljujarvi

Pettersson-Karlsson
McNabb-Letang
Graves-St. Ivany
Ludvig

Nedjelkovic-Blackwood

This has them at $770k in cap space for next year with a cap of $87.5 million. I think Lindholm for 3C may be a bit unrealistic, but at the same time, he didn't have a particularly good year this year so maybe a short term, higher AAV deal is something that could work.

If O'Connor falters on L1, you can bump Lindholm into the top-6 and O'Connor down to 3C, or you can bump Eller up to 3C and move Poulin or Acciari to 4C.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lindholm blows.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lindholm blows.

Replace Lindholm with Stephenson then, while making the 2 year deal a 6 year deal instead.

Although Stephenson probably comes in closer to $6 million AAV, so they'd have to trim off a bit of money elsewhere to get that extra bit for Stephenson.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bunting's analytic profile is not necessarily vibing with what he produced. Similar to Rakell last year.

I would be shocked if we don't see a drop off.

Just admit you were wrong about Bunting already.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just admit you were wrong about Bunting already.

Post-Game Talk: - 2 points closer to the playoffs

I think I just aged 15 years watching those last 10 mins

forums.hfboards.com

 

[molon labe]

So are you paying actually assets for Kadri?

Yes. Though, it depends on the deal of course. I haven't mentally settled for what the best scenario is there.

- Straight up, okay for what? You have the angle of his NMC and his age to work with.
- Bigger package:
* Kadri + Markstrom?
** Kadri + JH? I think this might be where we get the best value with the biggest gamble.
*** Sharangovich, Mangiapane?

I don't know what looks best. I do know that he would be a welcome addition to that second line for the few seasons it's got left.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes. Though, it depends on the deal of course. I haven't mentally settled for what the best scenario is there.

- Straight up, okay for what? You have the angle of his NMC and his age to work with.
- Bigger package:
* Kadri + Markstrom?
** Kadri + JH? I think this might be where we get the best value with the biggest gamble.
*** Sharangovich, Mangiapane?

I don't know what looks best. I do know that he would be a welcome addition to that second line for the few seasons it's got left.

If Calgary moves Kadri, I bet they are asking for a 1st.