Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[SomeDude]

The irony is not lost on me of Dubas wanting to model the Kings, the team that had the wisdom to dump a sentimental over the hill vet like Jeff Carter to gain an asset and create a spot for one of their younger players.

 

[chethejet]

Pens will go to a playoff or bust next year. I see changes but my guess is next year will see some changes to the retool or pivot.

 

[Malkinstheman]

The irony is not lost on me of Dubas wanting to model the Kings, the team that had the wisdom to dump a sentimental over the hill vet like Jeff Carter to gain an asset and create a spot for one of their younger players.

Also a team that went cheap on goaltending and didn't tie themselves down to a mediocre goalie. Feels like no one on this team actually knows what they're watching.

 

[Gurglesons]

The irony is not lost on me of Dubas wanting to model the Kings, the team that had the wisdom to dump a sentimental over the hill vet like Jeff Carter to gain an asset and create a spot for one of their younger players.

It's honestly the dumbest shit imaginable that he is using LA and NY as his references of what this team can do.

 

[SEALBound]

It's honestly the dumbest shit imaginable that he is using LA and NY as his references of what this team can do.

Saying this while the NYR just won the president's trophy is the dumbest shit imaginable.

You're really showing your ass with this one bud.

 

[Pancakes]

Saying this while the NYR just won the president's trophy is the dumbest shit imaginable.

You're really showing your ass with this one bud.

I don't think Pixies is disputing the success of NYR or LA with their rebuilds. But look at how they did it.

I made this point earlier but NYR's rebuild success basically boiled down to Artemi Panarin really wanting to play in New York because Russians love it there. And Adam Fox also really wanting to play in New York rather than sign with Calgary. The Rangers also got some top 5 picks (which the Pens seem unlikely to have happen as long as Sid is playing at this level). And they didn't even do that great with those picks lol.

I'm sure the Penguins will have a fantastic rebuild if Dubas has a franchise winger and franchise defenseman basically force their way onto the team through no effort of his own.

The Kings are maybe a more realistic team to emulate but they had several years in a row of stockpiling picks and prospects and doing great in the draft with them. The Pens aren't doing any such stockpiling. One Guentzel trade to add some assets does not a good system make.

 

[Andy99]

I don't think Pixies is disputing the success of NYR or LA with their rebuilds. But look at how they did it.

I made this point earlier but NYR's rebuild success basically boiled down to Artemi Panarin really wanting to play in New York because Russians love it there. And Adam Fox also really wanting to play in New York rather than sign with Calgary. The Rangers also got some top 5 picks (which the Pens seem unlikely to have happen as long as Sid is playing at this level). And they didn't even do that great with those picks lol.

I'm sure the Penguins will have a fantastic rebuild if Dubas has a franchise winger and franchise defenseman basically force their way onto the team through no effort of his own.

The Kings are maybe a more realistic team to emulate but they had several years in a row of stockpiling picks and prospects and doing great in the draft with them. The Pens aren't doing any such stockpiling. One Guentzel trade to add some assets does not a good system make.

The Kings also had three top ten picks if I’m not mistaken..and last count, the Pens had zero lol

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Vancouver might actually be the model most applicable to the Penguins, though I think the Canucks were largely underachieving whereas the Penguins need more work.

But the Canucks did the following under Rutherford and Allvin:

• Traded the popular Bo Horvat for a package that included an NHL piece, a top prospect, and a first round pick
• Dumped that NHL piece (Beauvillier) for cap space
• Cleared out unnecessary pieces in Stillman, Lazar, and Schenn
• Acquired Hronek to add a younger, mobile piece on D
• Bought out OEL
• Modest free agent signings

Most importantly, the Canucks have been integrating younger players into their lineup. JT Miller is their only forward of consequence over 30. He's 31. Ian Cole is their only defenseman over 30.

If the Penguins can move Smith, Rakell, and another piece or two for even modest assets, and then use some assets to poach some younger players, they could really jumpstart their renovation process.

 

[wheelz87]

Is Guentzel worth 9M until he's 38?
If yes, you re-sign him. If no, you sign guys who will play up to or better than their cap hits with that 9M.
It's very simple.

We already used 4.5M of that on Bunting, and he has fairly good odds to outplay his AAV. Use the other 4.5M on something wise and you've fully replaced Jake, without taking on giant AAV NMCs until guys are washed.

Is guentzel worth that at 38? Probably not. You get that a lot though with basically any aging guy sans maybe Sid. Any final contract can look ugly. Is Raks worth his deal at 38? Hell its not worth it now. Is Jarry worth his.. Smith, Graves. no no no. I mean are we just going to keep running it back and expecting Sid or Geno to make stuff happen with guys like that? I get its not easy to tell teams to take our crap for nothing. But we got to get creative and get rid of some of these contracts. I'd rather lose with DOC/Puusty than watch Rakell/Smith do jack shit in the top 6.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

The Kings also had three top ten picks if I’m not mistaken..and last count, the Pens had zero lol

They were also patient with Byfield, which seems to have finally paid off for them.

 

[Pens x]

Still havent fired the coaching staff?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also a team that went cheap on goaltending and didn't tie themselves down to a mediocre goalie. Feels like no one on this team actually knows what they're watching.

The Kings and Bruins agreed to a trade for Ullmark at the deadline that Ullmark shot down with his NMC. They were also rumored to be heavily interested in Markstrom.

 

[Gurglesons]

Saying this while the NYR just won the president's trophy is the dumbest shit imaginable.

You're really showing your ass with this one bud.

Rangers rebuild was because Panarin and Fox wanted to play for NYR.

Call me the next time we get a young player or premiere UFA who chose to play for PIT because we are PIT.

LA has two players left from their cup team.

We shout from the roof tops that Bryan Rust would never be moved.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Kings are maybe a more realistic team to emulate but they had several years in a row of stockpiling picks and prospects and doing great in the draft with them. The Pens aren't doing any such stockpiling. One Guentzel trade to add some assets does not a good system make.

You are correct that the Kings have had years to build up their farm, but it should be noted that most of their team success right now is from players who have been there for a while or notable win-now additions. Dubois looks like a dud, but Dubois, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Moore and Gavrikov are all notable guys who they didn't internally develop but are big parts of the Kings. The Kings do have notable young guys, namely Byfield and Anderson, but I think their success is mostly not driven by young guys right now.

With the Kings comparison, I figure that Dubas is more referring to "trading assets for young win-now help" like they did with Fiala, Dubois and Gavrikov. The Fiala trade is an especially good example, even with the Kings paying a fortune for him in hindsight (Faber and pick #19). I think the idea would basically be targeting 23-26 year old players with the intent of helping the old core now and eventually taking over for the old core. If the Leafs fizzle out of the playoffs, I could absolutely see Dubas trying this with someone like Marner if he'd be available.

Speaking of Fiala, I totally forgot that he was actually drafted by the Predators and was traded straight up for Granlund.

 

[Pancakes]

You are correct that the Kings have had years to build up their farm, but it should be noted that most of their team success right now is from players who have been there for a while or notable win-now additions. Dubois looks like a dud, but Dubois, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Moore and Gavrikov are all notable guys who they didn't internally develop but are big parts of the Kings. The Kings do have notable young guys, namely Byfield and Anderson, but I think their success is mostly not driven by young guys right now.

With the Kings comparison, I figure that Dubas is more referring to "trading assets for young win-now help" like they did with Fiala, Dubois and Gavrikov. The Fiala trade is an especially good example, even with the Kings paying a fortune for him in hindsight (Faber and pick #19). I think the idea would basically be targeting 23-26 year old players with the intent of helping the old core now and eventually taking over for the old core. If the Leafs fizzle out of the playoffs, I could absolutely see Dubas trying this with someone like Marner if he'd be available.

Speaking of Fiala, I totally forgot that he was actually drafted by the Predators and was traded straight up for Granlund.

Kings have also done a great job with later picks. Kempe was a late first. Matt Roy was a 7th. Spence was a 4th. Laferierre a 3rd. Anderson a 4th. Kaliev a 2nd. They've got all these guys playing roles.

They're kinda like what the Pens briefly were under JR/Sullivan where they had this crop of prospects come up who weren't high picks but who nevertheless played key roles on the team.

It's gonna be hard for the Pens to emulate that though without stockpiling more prospects than they currently have.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Personally I like Rakell LW with Rust and Sid.
On main page, there's a thread about each team's current lines and whatnot. DeBrusk has mostly been RW on the 2nd line, that's why I've mentioned a couple times to sign him. Put him RW with Bunting and Geno.

Rakell Crosby Rust
Bunting Malkin DeBrusk
DOC

Pick 5 names out of:
Eller
Puustinen
Pulijarvi
Poulin
Ponomarev
Acciari
Gruden
Nieto

That works for me. Theres cap leftover too for another D too if we don't think POJ is it. We don't even really need to dump Jarry. Platoon him with a re-signed Ned and plug Blomqvist in when he's ready, a-la 2016 cup run Matt Murray. Speaking of which, I'd prefer to keep a few mil in reserve to let the kids go for spots, and then use it at the deadline to fill holes for one more run. No need to be against the cap on day 1.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I'd mainly like to grab another 3c quality player and let Eller be the 4c. Then we'd really be able to roll four solid lines.

I like the thought of Henrique even though he's old. He's still effective. I could see giving him a 2 year Eller type deal and having it work out.

Maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but I want to give Pono and Poulin shots at claiming that spot. If they can't, fill it at the deadline.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also a team that went cheap on goaltending and didn't tie themselves down to a mediocre goalie. Feels like no one on this team actually knows what they're watching.

This is really true. I feel like a lot of this team's decisions are based on not actually watching the players they have, play against, or acquire.

 

[Gurglesons]

You are correct that the Kings have had years to build up their farm, but it should be noted that most of their team success right now is from players who have been there for a while or notable win-now additions. Dubois looks like a dud, but Dubois, Fiala, Danault, Arvidsson, Moore and Gavrikov are all notable guys who they didn't internally develop but are big parts of the Kings. The Kings do have notable young guys, namely Byfield and Anderson, but I think their success is mostly not driven by young guys right now.

With the Kings comparison, I figure that Dubas is more referring to "trading assets for young win-now help" like they did with Fiala, Dubois and Gavrikov. The Fiala trade is an especially good example, even with the Kings paying a fortune for him in hindsight (Faber and pick #19). I think the idea would basically be targeting 23-26 year old players with the intent of helping the old core now and eventually taking over for the old core. If the Leafs fizzle out of the playoffs, I could absolutely see Dubas trying this with someone like Marner if he'd be available.

Speaking of Fiala, I totally forgot that he was actually drafted by the Predators and was traded straight up for Granlund.

Kings got young before this by making moves like..

Muzzin for Grundstrom, Durzi and a 1st.

Campbell and Cilford for Moore and the 3rd rounder that became Laferriere.

Martinez for multiple 2nds.

Toffoli for prospects and picks. (Kinda hilarious that Toffoli's trade looks nearly identical to the Guentzel trade in terms of "prospects" with high upside that likely turn into nothing.)

Meanwhile we over here holding onto Eller and Bryan Rust like they are franchise players.

 

[Nakawick]

I think we do need to bring in a center better than Eller. Not likely to have Sid and Geno and Eller all play 82 games again while being another year older.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think we do need to bring in a center better than Eller. Not likely to have Sid and Geno and Eller all play 82 games again while being another year older.

I think Eller would also be a terrific 4C, so I don't even think they need a guy notably better than Eller. They just need another Eller.

I think you ideally bring in someone like Wennberg to be the 3C and push Eller to 4C. Get a guy with a bit more offensive creativity/playmaking talent than Eller.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Saying this while the NYR just won the president's trophy is the dumbest shit imaginable.

You're really showing your ass with this one bud.

Except we didn't tank for top picks and send out all our aging contracts. NYR was the model but it needed to happen 3 years ago. Too late now.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The Rangers benefitted immensely from things the Pens just aren't going to be able to take advantage of. They're never gonna draw a FA like Panarin cuz he wants to live the lavish life of a multi-millionaire in the city. They probably aren't gonna luck into a guy who looks like he's gonna have a HHOF career as a random college FA signing (Fox). They made out exceptionally well on the Brassard trade with Ottawa all those years ago.

Of course you'd like to follow the Rangers' model, but there's not really a followable model there.

This team's gonna have to do it the hard way; through the draft and development of prospects. Lots of luck is gonna be involved, and shrewd moves when it comes to replacing their coaching staff and revamping their scouting depts, both pro and amateur.

 

[The Old Master]

The Rangers benefitted immensely from things the Pens just aren't going to be able to take advantage of. They're never gonna draw a FA like Panarin cuz he wants to live the lavish life of a multi-millionaire in the city. They probably aren't gonna luck into a guy who looks like he's gonna have a HHOF career as a random college FA signing (Fox). They made out exceptionally well on the Brassard trade with Ottawa all those years ago.

Of course you'd like to follow the Rangers' model, but there's not really a followable model there.

This team's gonna have to do it the hard way; through the draft and development of prospects. Lots of luck is gonna be involved, and shrewd moves when it comes to replacing their coaching staff and revamping their scouting depts, both pro and amateur.

I heard there are players standing in lines wanting to play for our great coach.

 

[Andy99]

I heard there are players standing in lines wanting to play for our great coach.

Everyone wants to play 5 min on our fourth line and get benched when they make a mistake…