Prospect Info: Penguins draft strategy: Cause for concern?

[stardog]

The discussion was brought up at the end of the draft thread. It was just getting interesting but alas, the draft ended, thus ending the thread.

I'll just copy the question which I posed (and re word it a bit as Rowdy Roddy Peeper made a good point regarding impact players).
Here goes:

I havent read through the boards, and this is the first draft day that Ive missed in YEARS, but my question is this (I'll preface it with a comment).

Im not going to comment on exactly WHO we drafted as I unashamedly plead ignorance, but at the same time has our drafting/scouting become stale???
Is anybody else concerned with the same exact strategy year after year after year? I wasnt at all shocked to find that once again, we didn't draft a Euro (I know about Maata obviously, but he was a CHL import, as was Zlobin...the anamoly being Sundqvist) and that we drafted guysthat are guys going off to college and that there wouldnt be a swing for the fences boom or bust type (though in his defense, its hard to do that without a firstie... Gee, would be nice to have that first back but...
Do we even employ a Euro scout anymore?
Is anybody else concerned about the 'vanilla' draft approach?
Shero has yet to draft ONE full time player outside of the first round since he took over. Yes, it looks like a couple are going to make it like Strait and Muzzin (which Shero then let get away for absolutely zero return but that is a discussion for another day), and a few are on the verge, but none are going to be impact players.

(NOTE: By impact player I am not talking about an all star, award winning type guy. Im simply talking about a guy who is above average to very good. I dont want to get caught up in semantics).

Does this not concern anyone else at all?

Hell, for all of you long timers who were with me on these boards back in the CP days, do we not remember the grief he took for his drafting? And his draft record kills Shero's.
Not meant to be a Shero bash, but for the love of God Ray, try SOMETHING different maybe?

Since 2006, his first draft, his drafting record outside of the first round is shaky.

You can look at the last two pages of the draft day thread for the rest of the discussion if you'd like. It was quite interesting.

And we have always heard that you cant judge his drafts yet as they are still developing. But with his first three drafts you can see (again, outside of the first rounds) the type of players that most are becoming. None pf them look as if they will make an impact (out of those who look like they will actually be in the NHL for at least a cup of coffee.

So is there a cause for concern? Should we still play the wait and see approach? Agree or disagree? Tell me why.

Click to read more...

 

[Sideline]

Scott Harrington alone gets the staff a ton of credit with me. That kid was a steal in round two.

 

[eXile59]

Is anyone worried we don't draft more high risk European players? No need for the book I just summed it up.

Yes it is worry some that our scouting team is afraid to go outside of it's comfort zone.

 

[farscape1]

How about the lack of any good wingers? Though liked the goalie though. Hopefully atleast one of those Centers can switch to Wing. Just not that 5foot 7 guy Jake Guentzel.

 

[wej20]

Wasn't Harrington not exactly a popular pick to at the time? I remember wanting Sproul instead though it looks like both are great value picks.

Since taking over Shero has drafted:

CHL - 25
NCAA -19
Euro - 5

(Counted guys drafted out of Junior A and USHS as NCAA, counted Kuhn as a Euro as he came over after being drafted, counted Zlobin and Mattaa as CHL as they were drafted out of there. Not sure where to put CPZ as he was originally slated to go the NCAA route)

I'd like to see them focus on Europe a little more and take a few more homerun swings with their late round picks as Shero's proven he's capable of filling out the bottom 6 via trade and free agency.

 

[maxpenguins6630]

As for myself, I am more about drafting from CHL than College or Europe... Unless the player is a can'T miss like Malkin, I am not a fan of drafting in Europe... They need to come over Young to adapt to the style of play in NA... College kids have more time to develop, at first I was not a big fan but lately we have had good results.

 

[thecore]

Among the forwards, only the 7th rounder is a grinder? The rest are boom or bust types. Actually, the safest guy is probably Regalla. In fact, I was hoping for MORE safe NHLers. Guys who can play on the bottom six that have size on ELCs. We didn't get any of them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

More College kids! Then WBS can be filled on forwards with cast offs and veteran AHL'ers and we can wait half a decade until any of these kids are close to ready!

Shero 4 lyfe.

 

[Shrimper]

I don't know why but the first post makes me want to approach the Penguins as a potential Western Europe scout

I have odd thoughts at times.

 

[Crafton]

i thought they were taking a step in the right direction by picking up European prospects playing in NA (Blueger, Kühnhackl, Zlobin, Uher).

that said they sure do seem to love the smaller leagues/pools(?) like MN-High School and the BCHL. lets list it out:

MN-High School:

Teddy Blueger Shattuck-St. Mary's
Josh Archibald Brainerd-High
Ben Hanowski Little Falls
Carl Sneep Brainerd-High

BCHL:

Dane Birks Merritt
Sean Maguire Powell River
Beau Bennett Penticton
Casey Pierro-Zabotel Merritt

USHL:

Jake Guentzel Sioux City
Bryan Rust USA U-18
Philip Samuelsson Chicago Steel

OJHL:

Troy Josephs St. Michael's
Scott Wilson Georgetown
Nick D'Agostino St. Michael's

 

[maxpenguins6630]

Among the forwards, only the 7th rounder is a grinder? The rest are boom or bust types. Actually, the safest guy is probably Regalla. In fact, I was hoping for MORE safe NHLers. Guys who can play on the bottom six that have size on ELCs. We didn't get any of them.

I agree... I like safer picks in late rounds that can be role players... I thought we passed on good players with skills in the late round and go more of unknown projects playing in weaker leagues... That's what I don'T really like...

 

[wej20]

Among the forwards, only the 7th rounder is a grinder? The rest are boom or bust types. Actually, the safest guy is probably Regalla. In fact, I was hoping for MORE safe NHLers. Guys who can play on the bottom six that have size on ELCs. We didn't get any of them.

Guys who can play on the bottom 6 that have size often get picked early in the 2nd, Milan Lucic effect.

 

[Gooch]

I have always detested Shero's drafting. It's just all ass backwards, the draft is the last place you should be playing it safe. When your goal is to simply get a roster player eventually then you're looking at it wrong. Every year via waivers and free agency there are roster players available at league minimum prices, they should not be made the emphasis of drafting. Getting a star out of the draft should be the goal as they're priced out of our range come free agency and rarely if ever slip to waivers. Most every pick should emphasize upside over any other element. The draft is absolutely worthless unless you're going to get an impact player out of it so this playing it safe garbage needs to go.... but we all know it wont. This is the the problem rampant with the whole team. The stubborn insistence to keep going with what doesnt work. Shero is merely doing his version of "getting to our game" every draft year.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

About the BCHL, how many of those guys went on to play in the CHL? Seems like most of them were heading to College right after, no matter what, the majority of the Pens prospects that Shero has drafted go the College route.

This team isn't deserving of the rank they have for prospects.

 

[lastcupever75]

i'd like to see even more focus on CHL players instead of these HS/college guys.

as for euros? no thanks, we already play too much of that style in spite of having a team mostly comprised of north americans

 

[Sjb141]

I have always detested Shero's drafting. It's just all ass backwards, the draft is the last place you should be playing it safe. When your goal is to simply get a roster player eventually then you're looking at it wrong. Every year via waivers and free agency there are roster players available at league minimum prices, they should not be made the emphasis of drafting. Getting a star out of the draft should be the goal as they're priced out of our range come free agency and rarely if ever slip to waivers. Most every pick should emphasize upside over any other element. The draft is absolutely worthless unless you're going to get an impact player out of it so this playing it safe garbage needs to go.... but we all know it wont. This is the the problem rampant with the whole team. The stubborn insistence to keep going with what doesnt work. Shero is merely doing his version of "getting to our game" every draft year.

This is literally the exact opposite of reality, especially in this draft.

We took a ton of high upside/low floor guys.

 

[Sivek]

Shero is a big-wig with USA Hockey, so I can't say I'm surprised that he takes a ton of guys going the NCAA route. I still don't understand how Sundqvist was taken in the 3rd last year. He's the only pure Euro-trained Shero pick in the top 3 rounds. Kühnhackl was a 4th and there's been a couple of early Euro's in Määttä and Bluegers that were drafted after playing in NA.

It's concerning in the idea that the team basically cuts off half of the hockey world when it comes to drafting. How many other teams have taken only 1 purely Euro-trained player in the first three rounds over the last 8 years?

I know this will be construed as "pick moar Euros/russianz" but largely ignoring the rest of the hockey world probably isn't a sound strategy.

 

[Jacob]

I'm concerned with the lack of European selections. But it might be affected somewhat by newer rules in terms of how long you hold a European's rights and all those years with no Russian transfer agreement. But you have to give the scouts their due for what they're able to find in NA. They're scouting junior-A, high schools & prep schools, the USHL, the UNTDP, and they're looking for and in some cases finding gems. I hadn't even heard of the league Byron was playing in before yesterday, and that's gotta be a credit to our scouts. These aren't exactly safe picks, but they're picks with upside that other teams might not have even seen play or might have shrugged off because they couldn't get a read on the players because they were facing weak competition. Or maybe their stat line wasn't sexy enough to make the trip out to the middle of nowhere. They're not just looking in the CHL and NCAA- and certainly not just scouting teams they already have prospects playing for.

Basically it's like Shero wants the Pens to be to North American players what the Wings are to Swedish players. Scouring low levels for talent that you can take a flyer on.

Now if they took the same approach in Europe (specifically Finland & Sweden) we'd really have something.

 

[billybudd]

Not particularly, no. I mean, it would be nice to have a Hakaan Anderson who finds diamonds in the rough in small villages in the middle of nowhere and gets them in the late rounds on a relatively regular basis. But we don't have one of those and only one team does.

Non-Detroit teams that have, historically, done as you're asking generally end up with an empty talent pipeline because too many guys bust.

Check out Florida's draft record some time. Vladimir Sapozhnikov, Rotislav Olesz, Frolik, Lucas Krajicek...they left guys like Mike Green, Claude Giroux, Jonathan Bernier, Emerson Etem, Derek Stepan, Travis Hamonik, Paul Martin, Dom Moore and so on on the board to pick the high risk European guy who had puck skills and nothing else to his game way ahead of where he should have been taken.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

i'd like to see even more focus on CHL players instead of these HS/college guys.

as for euros? no thanks, we already play too much of that style in spite of having a team mostly comprised of north americans

There are Euro players that can play the NA game. The Penguins scouting staff might not be all that great, they need to upgrade that big time. Maybe get MORE Euro scouts and more scouts watching the CHL leagues.

While it's great to cultivate home grown local talent from high schools that go the College route, you're denying yourself the other talent in other leagues because you are so dead set on guys from the US.

You want the best player, who gives a crap about where they are from, if they can play the game and be solid people as well, that's what you are looking for in the end.

I have nothing against the College guys, they're getting a great education and getting the time to bulk up, but are they playing enough games, against enough skill? I don't know if the competition level is worth that time to bulk up when you compare it to the CHL.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not particularly, no. I mean, it would be nice to have a Hakaan Anderson who finds diamonds in the rough in small villages in the middle of nowhere and gets them in the late rounds on a relatively regular basis. But we don't have one of those and only one team does.

Non-Detroit teams that have, historically, done as you're asking generally end up with an empty talent pipeline because too many guys bust.

Check out Florida's draft record some time. Vladimir Sapozhnikov, Rotislav Olesz, Frolik, Lucas Krajicek...they left guys like Mike Green, Claude Giroux, Jonathan Bernier, Emerson Etem, Derek Stepan, Travis Hamonik, Paul Martin, Dom Moore and so on on the board to pick the high risk European guy who had puck skills and nothing else to his game way ahead of where he should have been taken.

How many of those were Tallon misses though? Who gives a crap about what Florida did before their current GM, if we're talking about horrible picks, then we can go back as far as Craig Patrick and even further.

Going with who the Panthers have now, they've done a better job of drafting than the Pens, not just their first rounders either which is them picking really high most of the time.

Even the Hawks have picked better and they've been picking around the same spot as the Pens the last few years.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I really don't like Shero's drafting. He falls in love with PMDs and college bound guys and puts the blinders on.

But hey, "In Shero We Trust!"

 

[billybudd]

i'd like to see even more focus on CHL players instead of these HS/college guys.

as for euros? no thanks, we already play too much of that style in spite of having a team mostly comprised of north americans

Now that's something I'm a little sketchy on. Seems they take an abnormal number of guys from the US who are headed to College. Maybe that's where they think they can find guys under the radar, though.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I really don't like Shero's drafting. He falls in love with PMDs and college bound guys and puts the blinders on.

But hey, "In Shero We Trust!"

It's insane how much faith people have in Shero and whine about Bylsma. I was hoping after that playoff loss, both were gone.

 

[farscape1]

It's insane how much faith people have in Shero and whine about Bylsma. I was hoping after that playoff loss, both were gone.

Thumbs up!!!