GDT: Penguins @ Canadiens (Quebec City)

[IcedCapp]

I've been on the 'keep Maatta and Letang together and run a top-10 pair 25+ minutes a night" train all off-season, but after watching the defense - and granted, we haven't seen them all together, maybe that would change my perspective - I'm warming up to the idea of splitting up Maatta and Letang, simply because the Penguins have two Dmen who can "run a pair", and I'm not sure it makes sense to put both of them together.

Now, let me say this: in order to win a cup, I think they probably need a Maatta/Letang pair, but I don't think they are winning a cup this year, and I think splitting them up, until they find/develop a true #3, is the best way to "fix" the defense. Maatta/Letang should be the "end game" goal, but i think it should wait, for now.

 

[IcedCapp]

Pouliot's issues are almost-entirely between the ears, and I don't mean intelligence-wise. What's best for him is to go down to the AHL, remember what it feels like to dominate both ends of the ice, then come back to the NHL with a new-found sense of confidence and ability. He CAN play, he just has no belief in himself right now, and that's a huge deal for athletes, never mind 21-year olds

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He looks exactly like Letang did when large expectations were thrown on him.

Respectfully... I really can't agree with that.

Letang was kind of a force of nature even coming right out of juniors. He certainly had some rough patches, of course. But not like this.

Doesn't really matter. Hopefully Pouliot rebounds quickly and even gets a few looks at the NHL level this season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Now, let me say this: in order to win a cup, I think they probably need a Maatta/Letang pair, but I don't think they are winning a cup this year, and I think splitting them up, until they find/develop a true #3, is the best way to "fix" the defense. Maatta/Letang should be the "end game" goal, but i think it should wait, for now.

You know that isn't going to happen though. They are going to trade picks and whatever we can to get some player like Hamhuis for 2 months.

 

[Gurglesons]

Letang was kind of a force of nature even coming right out of juniors. He certainly had some rough patches, of course. But not like this.

Letang is my favorite player, but the after Gonchar left in 2010, Letang was probably our worst defenseman that year. Well, besides Lovejoy.

 

[drpepper]

At the end of the day we were all clamoring for the Pens to be built around Sid and Geno. Well, JR finally is taking the right steps to do that, and at least in the short term until we cut all the dead weight that necessarily means sacrifices in other areas of the team - namely defense.

I'll take this team with its awesome forwards over watching the Pens be a great defensive team but unable to do jack **** when it counts because teams can key on Sid and Geno.

JR also traded Despres for Lovejoy and didn't properly develop Pouliot or Dumoulin last season. And in prioritizing only the forward group, he's left the defense without any back-up plan. Granted he also picked up Cole which is looking good if Cole remains consistent.

He's inherited some of the mess on the blueline, but other parts of it are his fault.

 

[IcedCapp]

Would also remind everyone - believe it or not, I don't care - the Penguins could have moved Rob Scuderi LAST OFF-SEASON FOR ACTUAL REAL LIFE ASSETS.

So while I appreciate some of what JR has done, I would also remind people that he's dipped his toe in plenty of crazy.

 

[systemsgo]

If Cole and Dumo don't work out, then they will have to split Letang and Maatta.

Letang-Cole
Maatta-Dumo

I don't think it's the end of the world to have those two on different pairings TBTH.



How has Dumo regressed? He has played stellar for the Baby Pens and played well this past postseason for the big club.

Not sure where you got that impression.

Maybe

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Cole

might offer more balance.

Would also remind everyone - believe it or not, I don't care - the Penguins could have moved Rob Scuderi LAST OFF-SEASON FOR ACTUAL REAL LIFE ASSETS.

So while I appreciate some of what JR has done, I would also remind people that he's dipped his toe in plenty of crazy.

**** life.

 

[drpepper]

Would also remind everyone - believe it or not, I don't care - the Penguins could have moved Rob Scuderi LAST OFF-SEASON FOR ACTUAL REAL LIFE ASSETS.

So while I appreciate some of what JR has done, I would also remind people that he's dipped his toe in plenty of crazy.

I try not to think about Scuderi, but he's definitely bridging the list of inherited problem & Rutherford's own messes.

 

[DegenX]

No thread yet for tonight's game, so ...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I've been on the 'keep Maatta and Letang together and run a top-10 pair 25+ minutes a night" train all off-season, but after watching the defense - and granted, we haven't seen them all together, maybe that would change my perspective - I'm warming up to the idea of splitting up Maatta and Letang, simply because the Penguins have two Dmen who can "run a pair", and I'm not sure it makes sense to put both of them together.

Now, let me say this: in order to win a cup, I think they probably need a Maatta/Letang pair, but I don't think they are winning a cup this year, and I think splitting them up, until they find/develop a true #3, is the best way to "fix" the defense. Maatta/Letang should be the "end game" goal, but i think it should wait, for now.

My worry with splitting up Maatta and Letang is that their new partners will essentially be too bad to form an effective pairing. Letang and Cole? Eh, maybe, I'm still not sold on Cole as a top-4 guy at all. Maatta and Lovejoy? Bleh. Dumoulin? Could be decent.

I hope we can find a bonafide 2nd pairing defenseman this season. Like you said, we're not a legit contender for a Cup this year, so just take the time and make the necessary moves in order to solidify our chances in the near future. Y'know, what they should've done last season instead of going all-in for a shot at the Cup that was never realistic to begin with.

 

[drpepper]

Maybe

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Cole

might offer more balance.



**** life.

I don't think Dumoulin can keep up with Letang.

Cole-Letang
Maatta-Clendening
Dumoulin-Lovejoy

I contemplated Maatta-Lovejoy but I think that is a really slow pairing & puts a ton of pressure on Maatta to be the only puck-handler. At least, Dumoulin-Lovejoy could play easier and fewer minutes.

Or if they are keeping Maatta-Letang which I could see from a match-up perspective to handle first lines of WSH (Ovi-Backstrom), PHI (Vorachek-Giroux) & NYI (Tavares-Okposo):

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Lovejoy
Dumoulin-Clendening

that gives both Dumoulin & Clendening protected minutes & puts pressure on Cole-Lovejoy ("vets") to step up.

 

[chrisp200]

It's too early to panic about Pouliot. He is 21 years old. We have been spoiled with young D stars in Letang and Maatta, but they are an exception rather than the norm in how Dmen develop. In two more years we will have a good idea of what Pouliot is. For now, it is obvious that he needs some time to develop in the AHL.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've been on the 'keep Maatta and Letang together and run a top-10 pair 25+ minutes a night" train all off-season, but after watching the defense - and granted, we haven't seen them all together, maybe that would change my perspective - I'm warming up to the idea of splitting up Maatta and Letang, simply because the Penguins have two Dmen who can "run a pair", and I'm not sure it makes sense to put both of them together.

Now, let me say this: in order to win a cup, I think they probably need a Maatta/Letang pair, but I don't think they are winning a cup this year, and I think splitting them up, until they find/develop a true #3, is the best way to "fix" the defense. Maatta/Letang should be the "end game" goal, but i think it should wait, for now.

Dumo was an absolute rock for WBS last season. Then he came up and played well in the playoffs. I'm not sure why people around here aren't more confident in the guy. Number 3-4 pairing guys don't magically appear out of thin air. All of those guys got NHL ice time, made their mistakes, and grew into the position.

Dumo has always stepped up when put in a big role in college and the A. I see no reason he can't do it in the NHL.

The Dumo-Cole pair has looked fine so far in limited viewings. Most of the goals given up this preseason have been when Scuds, Sarge, Lovejoy and DP have been on the ice. Did anyone expect those guys to be good, aside from DP?

I really think the bottom pair is the only big concern.

Maybe

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Cole

might offer more balance.

I thought of that, but Dumo will have to play a ton of minutes if he is with Letang.

 

[Sam Spade]

Who on our defense outside of Letang and Maatta has looked any better?

Our defense has looked terrible since Johnston took over to be honest. Much like fans of Portland told us it would.

Yeah I really think people should take some time to revisit the MJ hiring. Tons of people came here and said he is not a guy to develop Dmen, unless you are an offensive dman. But the actual nuts and bolts of D are not his thing.

I realize there is a D coaches and MJ can't do everything though.

Also, not worried really (timing/game speed, etc.), but have been people been watching Maata because he has looked off to me in the games he's played.

Letang is done for the pre-season. Smart move.

 

[IcedCapp]

Dumo was an absolute rock for WBS last season. Then he came up and played well in the playoffs. I'm not sure why people around here aren't more confident in the guy. Number 3-4 pairing guys don't magically appear out of thin air. All of those guys got NHL ice time, made their mistakes, and grew into the position.

Dumo has always stepped up when put in a big role in college and the A. I see no reason he can't do it in the NHL.

The Dumo-Cole pair has looked fine so far in limited viewings. Most of the goals given up this preseason have been when Scuds, Sarge, Lovejoy and DP have been on the ice. Did anyone expect those guys to be good, aside from DP?

I really think the bottom pair is the only big concern.

I'm not really concerned about him, I would just rather him be the second-most-talented player on a pair, not the most.

Cole - Letang
Maatta - Dumoulin
SCUDERI - LOVEJOY

 

[drpepper]

I'm not really concerned about him, I would just rather him be the second-most-talented player on a pair, not the most.

Cole - Letang
Maatta - Dumoulin
SCUDERI - LOVEJOY

Has Dumoulin ever played the right side?

I thought in WBS he played the left side exclusively.

Yeah I really think people should take some time to revisit the MJ hiring. Tons of people came here and said he is not a guy to develop Dmen, unless you are an offensive dman. But the actual nuts and bolts of D are not his thing.

I realize there is a D coaches and MJ can't do everything though.

Also, not worried really (timing/game speed, etc.), but have been people been watching Maata because he has looked off to me in the games he's played.

Letang is done for the pre-season. Smart move.

Where did you here that Letang was done for preseason?

The Pens have a preseason game Oct 2 that I haven't seen a line-up for yet.

 

[Asuna]

Has Dumoulin ever played the right side?

I thought in WBS he played the left side exclusively.

I guess we'll have to use Maatta - Clendening!!!

 

[Shady Machine]

Nail Yakupov
Ryan Murray
Alex Galchenyuk
Griffin Reinhart
Morgan Reilly
Hampus Lindholm
Mathew Dumba
Derrick Pouliot
Jacob Trouba
Slater Koekkoek

Which of these players has become a proven NHL player at the moment without elements that need improvement?

The only one I see is Hampus Lindholm. I guess you could argue Ryan Murray, but then again he was taken second overall.

People are being way to hard on Pouliot assuming he's a "bust". Kid is 21 and held his own last season when he was actually playing NHL minutes instead of looking sloppy in the preseason. Looking sloppy in the preseason like literally every single one of our defensemen outside of Letang and Maatta. You know, the only two that have really had any time in Johnston's system outside of Scuderi.

Uh Trouba is a hell of a Dman already. Certainly better than Pouliot. Then obviously there is the guy most of us wanted picked in Forseberg.

Murray, Yak, Galchenyuk, Reilly, have all shown more.

Then obviously Lindholm as you mentioned.

That doesn't mean I'm even close to being ready to throw in the towel on him. He is still very talented. It's not unreasonable to be a little disappointed with where he is at right now.

 

[drpepper]

Dumo was an absolute rock for WBS last season. Then he came up and played well in the playoffs. I'm not sure why people around here aren't more confident in the guy. Number 3-4 pairing guys don't magically appear out of thin air. All of those guys got NHL ice time, made their mistakes, and grew into the position.

Dumo has always stepped up when put in a big role in college and the A. I see no reason he can't do it in the NHL.

Maatta-Letang
Dumoulin-Cole

still seems feasible although it would be nice to see a preseason game with those pairings.

The bottom pairing gets a little ****ed up though. Both Clendening & Lovejoy are RHS, so is one of them playing on their backhand? Scuderi can't play with Lovejoy. So is Scuderi-Clendening the best they can do? Does Pouliot still make the team with the hope that he fixes his head issues? Pouliot-Lovejoy with Clendening & Scuderi as the 7th & 8th d-men?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Pouliot looked terrible in the D zone last season as well. He lucked out on a lot of plays at first, but it all caught up to him later in the season. Judging how he looks now, Jmelm (basically got laughed off the board for saying he was 3 years out last season) and those who said he may end up being MA Bergeron II are looking like the ones who got it right.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Would also remind everyone - believe it or not, I don't care - the Penguins could have moved Rob Scuderi LAST OFF-SEASON FOR ACTUAL REAL LIFE ASSETS.

So while I appreciate some of what JR has done, I would also remind people that he's dipped his toe in plenty of crazy.

Yeah. That's extremely frustrating.

I more or less suspected as much for a while (based on the amount of ball-washing he was receiving from the team and their PR drones, alone). But the Penguins once again chose to ignore what was right in front of them and go with their fun little fantasy narratives, instead.

They were probably muttering stuff about Paul Martin, Matt Niskanen and what huge geniuses they were under their breath the whole time.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I'm not really concerned about him, I would just rather him be the second-most-talented player on a pair, not the most.

Cole - Letang
Maatta - Dumoulin
SCUDERI - LOVEJOY

The next two games are going to tell us a lot about what the pairs will look like, I think.

Tonight you have Maatta and Clendening playing, and the staff has put that pair together a good amount the last CBJ game and it wasn't all that pretty, but the results were good. And you've got Dumo and Cole playing tonight too, so they might stick.

Tomorrow all of Lovejoy, Scuds and Pouliot are playing, and one of the signs of the coming of the apocalypse will be if Scuds is paired with Lovejoy.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Uh Trouba is a hell of a Dman already. Certainly better than Pouliot. Then obviously there is the guy most of us wanted picked in Forseberg.

Murray, Yak, Galchenyuk, Reilly, have all shown more.

Then obviously Lindholm as you mentioned.

Luckily for us Maatta fell to us with our own 1st rounder, would have been a real disaster had he been drafted before our pick!

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Has Dumoulin ever played the right side?

I thought in WBS he played the left side exclusively.

He has a while back, but the results weren't very good. I would think he's considered a LD only at this point. Cole would seem to be our only D who can play either side comfortably.