PC Building Guide and Discussion #11 (everything is expensive...)

[SniperHF]

Planning on building a PC for the first time. What happened to that building guide that's usually in the OP?

I haven't remade it in awhile. If you have a budget or goal for the system in mind someone here can ballpark it.

Ok so my new graphics card is here:

EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2 GAMING, 11G-P4-6593-KR, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Technology - 9 Thermal Sensors & RGB LED G/P/M - Newegg.com

And I cannot get this monitor to read it as existing:

Acer K2 Series K272HUL 27" WQHD 2560 x 1440 (2K) IPS 4ms (GTG) Black LED Backlight LCD Monitor, at 60 Hz Refresh Rate, Eco Friendly Design, Visual Comfortable and Build in Speakers - Newegg.com

I've redone the pins once but that was a mistake - it worked with the old monitor that is second on the rig. I shall admit that I've had a few but this is confounding me... I've had it boot and responsive and, while connected through the card, speccy and windows standard doesn't read the card as the graphics card. I'm perplexed... I will admit, I've never upgraded a card mid system so did I miss a step?

Pins?

Are you using Displayport, HDMI or DVI?

Have you checked to see if your monitor has an input selection in the menus?

 

[forsbergavs32]

I haven't remade it in awhile. If you have a budget or goal for the system in mind someone here can ballpark it.

I don't need anything super crazy, trying to stay under $1000 total (OS, monitor included). If it goes over a bit that's fine.

 

[Bocephus86]

I haven't remade it in awhile. If you have a budget or goal for the system in mind someone here can ballpark it.




Pins?

Are you using Displayport, HDMI or DVI?

Have you checked to see if your monitor has an input selection in the menus?

I'm doing the one that looks like HDMI but not - under an assumption that is better so please tell me if I'm an idiot... right now I've got Nvidias software to recognize my situation and they are upgrading my drivers from 1060 gtx to 1080ti... i doubt that solves my main problem but it is what I have.. I have a stupid question for you - formally my pc parts had singles sets of power, so, while
"new", its not hard to tell. my TI had both the 6 and 6+2 pin power.... do I do both? I think I do but the instructions show both as green which dont help... i cant tell if its poor tranlation from 1 or "do both"....

and I spoke too soon as my PC and "worried" monitor woke up. Speccy still don't say what I expect but I'll run the the 3dmark and report back...

Hey, so - this is someone how doesn't know what to do but is still mess about... anyone else that is literally lost, talk to me and I'll help you through (best I can). I'm real life leaving my problems so you can do it too, trust me.

 

[Bocephus86]

Sorry I sound foreign... I got back into PCs because of @Kestral and @Sniper, with at least 2 others that I cant remember right now being instrumental. I'm lucky enough that I make good money in my job and Im young enough to not have kids/a house but old enough to care... so I spend a lot but reasonably. I started with a goal of $1600, 800 I'd take in GPU & Processor... the rest I'd stop having to think of family presents. But then the itch happened... I grabbed a TB SDD last spring. Today, I got my 1080ti... earlier, I got the 2k monitor...... I think short term and "better", not best. But I suspect a few of you are also 30 something, maybe got kids, definitely saving (like me), so if I can swimg the waters I'll say this.... It's worth it. Nights out are fun, and I still do em, but that PC shit is strong.... when I get in trouble because I blew lines at depaul, I still have the PC to keep me warm... When the woman is so cold.

EDIT: That graphics update worked for everything.... Do not read this idiot and instead upgrade your drivers while you have a drink. I can only edit so much.... sorry I was such a prick.

 

[Bocephus86]

I'm a shit

 

[SniperHF]

I don't need anything super crazy, trying to stay under $1000 total (OS, monitor included). If it goes over a bit that's fine.

I can give you some ideas tomorrow , goin to sleep

In the meantime, are you gaming? Doing anything else unusual?

I'm doing the one that looks like HDMI but not - under an assumption that is better so please tell me if I'm an idiot... right now I've got Nvidias software to recognize my situation and they are upgrading my drivers from 1060 gtx to 1080ti... i doubt that solves my main problem but it is what I have.. I have a stupid question for you - formally my pc parts had singles sets of power, so, while
"new", its not hard to tell. my TI had both the 6 and 6+2 pin power.... do I do both? I think I do but the instructions show both as green which dont help... i cant tell if its poor tranlation from 1 or "do both"....

and I spoke too soon as my PC and "worried" monitor woke up. Speccy still don't say what I expect but I'll run the the 3dmark and report back...

Hey, so - this is someone how doesn't know what to do but is still mess about... anyone else that is literally lost, talk to me and I'll help you through (best I can). I'm real life leaving my problems so you can do it too, trust me.

On video cards, if you have two power connection points you always use both. So you'll want both the 8 and the 6 connected.

When changing cards it's usually a good idea to completely uninstall your drivers and then install them after your new card is in.

On a 60hz monitor 1440p monitor I believe all 3 connections are about the same quality but I wouldn't take that to the bank.

 

[Bocephus86]

I can give you some ideas tomorrow , goin to sleep

In the meantime, are you gaming? Doing anything else unusual?




On video cards, if you have two power connection points you always use both. So you'll want both the 8 and the 6 connected.

When changing cards it's usually a good idea to completely uninstall your drivers and then install them after your new card is in.

On a 60hz monitor 1440p monitor I believe all 3 connections are about the same quality but I wouldn't take that to the bank.

As a man that just went through this and then panicked, poorly, when it didn't work out.... remove your drivers then reinstall. I have half assed my upgrades too often then not, not dealing with my old gft drivers caused 2-3 hours of serious confusion... and some serious confusion. Once I did, my monitor turned on (non expected, just crazy illustration).

 

[Bocephus86]

Lets make this steps:

1. Have a new card
2. Get your PC when it can turn on (old card/CPU only)
3. Deleat old GPU drivers (new PC, old card)
4. Reinstall new drivers (I render everything!!)
5. Actually download real drivers (peanut butter is wavy)
6. Holy molly;
I like I saw a cyborg....

 

[forsbergavs32]

I can give you some ideas tomorrow , goin to sleep

In the meantime, are you gaming? Doing anything else unusual?

Nothing too crazy, I stream on twitch from time to time using a capture card and my gaming consists of a few steam games and emulators.

 

[Bocephus86]

I'm sorry i took it far too personal and fought argued with my gf that I couldnt make my new gtx work. I won the battle and lost the war,,,

I made it work with your help so... thanks! The gf will come around because she has logic, the GTX dont.

 

[SniperHF]

Nothing too crazy, I stream on twitch from time to time using a capture card and my gaming consists of a few steam games and emulators.

$1042: System Builder - Ryzen 5 1500X 3.5GHz Quad-Core, GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Dual, Frame MicroATX Mid Tower - PCPartPicker
AMD 1500x
8GB DDR4
GTX 1060 6GB
525GB SSD
Micro ATX case and motherboard + An extra 120mm fan
Asus 21.5" 1080P monitor (If you want a bigger one you can find 23" around this price as well)
OS included in price


I stuck to Amazon/Newegg and since sales are going on you can probably find some deals on various parts. Also some of those prices are probably deal prices so it might go up in a few days.

 

[forsbergavs32]

$1042: System Builder - Ryzen 5 1500X 3.5GHz Quad-Core, GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Dual, Frame MicroATX Mid Tower - PCPartPicker
AMD 1500x
8GB DDR4
GTX 1060 6GB
525GB SSD
Micro ATX case and motherboard + An extra 120mm fan
Asus 21.5" 1080P monitor (If you want a bigger one you can find 23" around this price as well)
OS included in price


I stuck to Amazon/Newegg and since sales are going on you can probably find some deals on various parts. Also some of those prices are probably deal prices so it might go up in a few days.

Won't be buying for a couple weeks but it gives me an idea. Thank you very much!

 

[Bobblebee]

Looking to upgrade CPU/Mobo around christmas, at the latest February. I'm torn between buying a R5 1600, I5 8400. Or just waiting till Ryzen + or whatever is there next 12nm architecture.

 

[SniperHF]

Looking to upgrade CPU/Mobo around christmas, at the latest February. I'm torn between buying a R5 1600, I5 8400. Or just waiting till Ryzen + or whatever is there next 12nm architecture.

I wouldn't bother waiting for the next releases, waiting is mostly a waste of time on the CPU side. IPC doesn't increase much and I think the core wars are more or less at a stalemate for now. Maybe AMD releases an 8 core cpu for $150 or something crazy but it's unlikely.

I'd go for the i5 price being equal.

If you like overclocking and such the AMD might be more attractive though.

One other issue is the Coffee Lake 8xxx parts are paper launched so actually getting one might be tough.

 

[Bobblebee]

I wouldn't bother waiting for the next releases, waiting is mostly a waste of time on the CPU side. IPC doesn't increase much and I think the core wars are more or less at a stalemate for now. Maybe AMD releases an 8 core cpu for $150 or something crazy but it's unlikely.

I'd go for the i5 price being equal.

If you like overclocking and such the AMD might be more attractive though.

One other issue is the Coffee Lake 8xxx parts are paper launched so actually getting one might be tough.

I am very interested in the i5 as you mentioned very hard to find. Intel really rushed the release, the product isn't bad the supply is though.

The best part about the i5 8400 or r5 1600 debate is that no matter which option i choose, they are both great products with advantages and disadvantages for both.

 

[Commander Clueless]

While I wouldn't wait for the next generation of CPUs, I would wait for the release of Intel's B360 and H370 chipsets next year and save yourself a few bucks on the motherboard....unless you are going for an 8600K.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

While I wouldn't wait for the next generation of CPUs, I would wait for the release of Intel's B360 and H370 chipsets next year and save yourself a few bucks on the motherboard....unless you are going for an 8600K.

Really agree with this. It becomes more pronounced when looking for an itx mobo. The unlocked Coffee Lake cpus seem to be running really hot and I'm thinking a regular 65W 8600 or 8700 will be more than enough for gaming and general home/office usage while being much easier to keep cool in a tight space without causing bottle necks on high end gpus. I just hope ASUS can fit a dual m.2 onto either the B360 or H370 in the itx form factor like they did on the Sky Lake boards. The beauty of these to me is that it also limits RAM speed somewhat which usually saves quite a few bucks as well. It's so easy to want 3200MHz or higher but I'm not convinced the jump in speeds from 2400MHz justifies the cost at all.

 

[SniperHF]

In general the jump in RAM speeds almost never does outside of some very specific applications.

Back when Skylake first came out and it would run on DDR3 or 4, the tests between the two were almost the same.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

In general the jump in RAM speeds almost never does outside of some very specific applications.

Back when Skylake first came out and it would run on DDR3 or 4, the tests between the two were almost the same.

That was also my thought...I know on DDR3 there were some conversions you could do to compare different RAM speeds. I think it was latency/speed or something. But I either heard or read that it didn't work as neatly for comparing DDR4. The latency seems to jump a bit as you move up speeds or for the same latency, the price jumps exponentially. RAM prices in general seem to have jumped quite a bit over the last month or so.

 

[SniperHF]

It's been a while since I looked at it but that sounds right. Latency increases negate some but not all of the raw speed increase.
One thing that greatly benefits from raw clockrate is integrated graphics.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

It's been a while since I looked at it but that sounds right. Latency increases negate some but not all of the raw speed increase.
One thing that greatly benefits from raw clockrate is integrated graphics.

Been so long since I've used a computer without a discreet card. Trying to think of a use for it and all I can come up with is possibly a small HTPC that would be used to replace a roku type device or maybe a strictly office oriented pc used for Excel and data mining (sql) type of applications?

 

[Kestrel]

In general the jump in RAM speeds almost never does outside of some very specific applications.

Back when Skylake first came out and it would run on DDR3 or 4, the tests between the two were almost the same.

I'm going by memory here - but I think Ryzen processors were an exception to this? I seem to remember the Infinity Fabric speed being tied to RAM speed? Or am I on crack?

 

[SniperHF]

Memory Scaling on Ryzen 7 with Team Group's Night Hawk RGB

The main question is perf v cost vs stability. You aren't guaranteed to run stable at those higher clocks although to be fair most of the time it works.

Usually there is a plateau somewhere when the value doesn't exceed the cost. In DDR3 that was almost always 1866mhz. Which is a couple levels higher than stock but hardly a crazy high memory speed either even on DDR3.

And really on the page I linked only one of those tests is real world, the WinRAR one. Going from 2400 to 3333 is worth about 8 seconds on compressing 1.37GB of data. Big whoop. On a server where you're doing this all day it matters but on a desktop? Meh I say.

They did show some pretty significant boosts in handbrake going from 2400 to basically anything higher but then it levels off.

And obviously the gaming tests on the next page aren't a selling point either.

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for that. I'm trying to remember what I put in my sister's Ryzen system. I certainly didn't pump a bunch of extra money into RAM, but I think I might have put an extra 5 or 10 bucks into something with a higher speed but similar latencies. One of those "for a few bucks, why not?" things.

Edit: I do remember the biggest criteria I had for finding RAM for her system was getting something Ryzen certified - I might have paid a little extra for that. Normally I don't care about getting RAM that's platform certified, but there were a lot of people having RAM compatibility issues at the time. I don't know if that's the case anymore.

 

[SniperHF]

Thanks for that. I'm trying to remember what I put in my sister's Ryzen system. I certainly didn't pump a bunch of extra money into RAM, but I think I might have put an extra 5 or 10 bucks into something with a higher speed but similar latencies. One of those "for a few bucks, why not?" things.

One of the funnier things was people buying higher speed RAM but not configuring it to run at those speeds.
With XMP now it's a little less common but still happens all the time.

The thing with that Anandtech test was they did it at equal latency. Where as if you're buying normal level RAM sticks you won't be running equal latency as you increase clock. Unless you manually set it and hope it's stable anyway.

For example an 8GB Stick of g.skill 2400mhz CL 15 is 91.99 USD
The same stick but in 3000mhz is CL16 and only a dollar more. But it has to run at 1.35v (Spec is 1.2) and the timings are more loose. Which one actually ends up faster? Most likely 3000mhz but it won't be as clear as the Anandtech test where it was all CL16.

And quite a lot of other tests I've seen floating around the internet like this one:
DDR4 Memory Scaling on AMD AM4 Platform - The Best Memory Kit For AMD Ryzen CPUs - Page 4 of 6 - Legit Reviews

On DX:MD they found a pretty huge increase on Ryzen @ 1080p. But I think this is a flawed test for a variety of reasons. First of all they are running a test in a game which is horribly optimized on a GTX 1080. In the vast majority of instances you will not be anything other than GPU bound. So sure, if you're running a card at resolutions too low for it and on a weaker IPC CPU like Ryzen you MIGHT run into a situation depending on the game where your memory speed is holding you back. But for everyone else running a mid-high card (Or using their GTX 1080 at 2k/4k like they should be) the RAM speed isn't going to do much.