Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - Part 20'ish or so

[JetsHomer]

There is still a gap between hinting that and speaking like those two are going to play on the top line no matter what. Makes me sick actually.

"Guys have been asking to play with those two guys."

"Only one player can play there."

That kind of stuff.

Maybe put Wheeler on the second line with his soul mate Little? Maybe put TWO of Ehler/Connor/Laine with Scheifele?

No. That's impossible.

The only thing that should make you sick is Laine's lazy entitled attitude and thinking he deserves to be on the top line over Wheeler who is the far better player

 

[JetsUK]

The only thing that should make you sick is Laine's lazy entitled attitude and thinking he deserves to be on the top line over Wheeler who is the far better player

No. Over Connor, who isn't.

 

[Whileee]

Just a reminder to everyone (again)....

If Laine had the same shooting percentage last season as he had in his first two seasons, he would have scored 45+ goals, and all the angst wouldn't exist. He had an unfortunate season, and he got frustrated, and the entire team was frustrated with the team results.

The players are actually providing the most rational responses... listen to Wheeler and Lowry. We fans get all up in arms, and the media try to stir everything up, but the players and coaches understand the situation and don't get too bent out of shape.

 

[JetsHomer]

No. Over Connor, who isn't.

Laine's already awful defensively at RW bit his attempts at playing LW was some of the worst defence I've ever seen from an NHL player

 

[ffh]

No. Over Connor, who isn't.

What exactly does he do better 5on5

 

[Halberdier]

Laine's already awful defensively at RW bit his attempts at playing LW was some of the worst defence I've ever seen from an NHL player

Oh I love seeing these hyperbolas. "Awful defensively".

Let me guess that you think Wheeler, Connor and Ehlers are at least good defensively?

And when you try to find numbers to defend that position, you'll need to cherry pick nicely.

 

[JetsUK]

Laine's already awful defensively at RW bit his attempts at playing LW was some of the worst defence I've ever seen from an NHL player

Not advocating for either -- just pointing out that based on precedent it's KC, not Wheeler, whom Laine would be displacing in any move to the top line.

 

[Hunter368]

Spots are gifted all the time in this league. Kyle Connor was gifted his despite getting outplayed by Ehlers each of the last two seasons for instance. He got his spot due to an injury I.e gifted it after not even making the team. If we went by the earning mantra that keeps getting paraded around here then he should have started on the second or third line and forced to work his way up.

Sorry but I call BS on the earning crap and will continue to.

The coach should ice the lineup based on fit not on what Is earned.

He brings up Pittsburgh, yeah Crosby and Kessel didn't play together but Kessel and Malkin did (Poor analogy has they had the choice of two number one C's and Crosby carried inferior players better then Geno)

Just more stupid hierarchal rubbish by a dinosaur coach.

It is earned (I agree with you partly) and fit/need of the team......not for the sole purpose of padding a single players stats. Sorry zero empathy for Laine, he wants to play on the top line (5vs5) to pad his stats b/c he clearly doesn’t add value in all three zones. I would play the guy who helps the team the most if I was the coach.....the purpose of the game is to score one more goal then the other team. So throw Laine on PP where he excels and then shelter him with usage & defensively the rest of the time until he can play better two way hockey. Sorry no interest is rewarding self entitled guys who throw team mates and coaches under the bus. Kane 2.0 starting to look like exactly.

 

[Albatros]

Laine was bad defensively and I don't think that can really be disputed, but I don't know if it's fair to single him out when Little next to him was anything but good either. And Connor is the softest kid in town. It's just not a good line.

 

[NotCommitted]

Agreed and that’s the way it should be. Earn your spot, shouldn’t be gifted to anyone.

"We don't care how much more actual goals you score than your opponent, we want expected goals!!!" ?

I guess definition of what makes you earn the spot is pretty subjective.

 

[AWSAA]

^ I don't blame Kane wanting out either. He was stuck behind trash like Ladd.... who'd still be signed here for 3 more seasons if Chevy had his way.

 

[Hunter368]

"We don't care how much more actual goals you score than your opponent, we want expected goals!!!" ?

I guess definition of what makes you earn the spot is pretty subjective.

And you think he did that on his own? Oh please, if he did he could do the same on any line he was added to.

 

[JetsHomer]

^ I don't blame Kane wanting out either. He was stuck behind trash like Ladd.... who'd still be signed here for 3 more seasons if Chevy had his way.

Who exactly do you think is the GM of the Jets??

 

[surixon]

It is earned (I agree with you partly) and fit/need of the team......not for the sole purpose of padding a single players stats. Sorry zero empathy for Laine, he wants to play on the top line (5vs5) to pad his stats b/c he clearly doesn’t add value in all three zones. I would play the guy who helps the team the most if I was the coach.....the purpose of the game is to score one more goal then the other team. So throw Laine on PP where he excels and then shelter him with usage & defensively the rest of the time until he can play better two way hockey. Sorry no interest is rewarding self entitled guys who throw team mates and coaches under the bus. Kane 2.0 starting to look like exactly.

He had the second best 5 on 5 goal differential on the team over his first two years. Is that not helping the team at 5 on 5? Too much is being made about defensive deficiencies. How much do they matter if he significantly outscored them like he did the first two years. Too much focus on the how and not on the what transpired the first two years. For the record I expect improvement there but sometimes I think people miss the forest from the trees. At the end of the day hockey is about outscoring your opposition and he did that better then anyone on the team at 5 on 5 save Scheifele who was only plus 1 higher then him.

His Goals above replacement contributions the first two years were also among the best on the team. Flawed as he was he contributed more to winning games then most other forwards. You would think the goal would be to maximize his gifts.

 

[AWSAA]

Who exactly do you think is the GM of the Jets??

Ladd saved Chevy from himself by turning down a 6x6 offer. Did our GM learn anything? A year later he extended Bryan Little.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Could have been slight hyperbole, but, last year they were negative xGF, corsi, and goal differential.

They are not a good line.

Let's change the language from slight to excessive hyperbole, but yes 27-18-29 weren't good. 81-55-26 wasn't much better.

I just don't know what the Laine fans expect. 29-55-26? The Jets become virtually a one line team and play into opposition coaches hands.

29-55-27? So the answer is to separate one of the games best passers from two of the leagues top goals scorers?

The issue is the Jets have puzzle pieces that don't presently fit. That's not on Maurice it's on Chevy.

The team needs another centre.

 

[NotCommitted]

And you think he did that on his own? Oh please, if he did he could do the same on any line he was added to.

Of course he can't, but like was posted already by other people, his 5v5 stats after two seasons of hockey were excellent, best of team in some of the "one stat to rule them all" ratings and really high league wide, tied with Scheifele for best 5v5 goal differential, most goals, most 5v5 goals, 3rd points and all the while he was still playing with Little 50% of the time. To me, that has earned him the top-line spot. If Stastny was still in the team, then Laine in the 2nd line could be easy to justify for creating scoring depth and incredibly strong 2nd line, but with the 3 season history of Little+Laine combination, it should be clear that is not a combination that supplements each other.

Most of Laine's good 5v5 stats came from his stint with Scheifele as a rookie and then with Stastny in his 2nd year. They were still playing 2nd line minutes with Stastny, the difference being they actually meshed as players since Stastny is a playmaker. Do you really think Scheifele or Stastny can lift just about anyone to score 40-50 goals & allow a lot less in their own end while doing it? In that case the Jets should have never left Stastny go, but trade Laine instead and now reap the benefit with Ehlers or Vesalainen or someone potting 40 in the 2nd line.

I'm not saying he did it all by himself, quite clearly he did not and that's a bit ridiculous ask.

 

[Board Bard]

Where does everyone keep getting the narrative that he doesn't believe he did anything wrong? That same article talks about how upset he was with his own play and how much he's worked at it this summer.

People are choosing which parts of the thing to focus on and not the whole thing were he takes personal accountability along side wanting a bigger role.

Normally even when Laine scores goals he says he could have been better. He knows he has to be better. He might not know how exactly, but he knows. It would help if he had someone good to teach him properly (as opposed to improperly).

 

[Duke749]

I think we’re all making a lot more out of literally everything to do with Laine then it is.

 

[Whileee]

Ladd saved Chevy from himself by turning down a 6x6 offer. Did our GM learn anything? A year later he extended Bryan Little.

Little's AAV is a bit high based on his contribution in the previous couple of seasons, but not outrageous. The circumstances of Ladd's negotiations are unknown. For all we know Ladd was asking for a lot more, and the Jets countered with an amount that they didn't expect him to accept. The end result is that they moved Ladd out, which was the right decision. Chevy has few poor contracts on his resume compared to many GMs.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Laine's already awful defensively at RW bit his attempts at playing LW was some of the worst defence I've ever seen from an NHL player

I don't know if I 100% agree. His positioning, his stick, his effort is often there.

It's being forced to his backhand that get's him into so much trouble.

 

[Hunter368]

He had the second best 5 on 5 goal differential on the team over his first two years. Is that not helping the team at 5 on 5? Too much is being made about defensive deficiencies. How much do they matter if he significantly outscored them like he did the first two years. Too much focus on the how and not on the what transpired the first two years. For the record I expect improvement there but sometimes I think people miss the forest from the trees. At the end of the day hockey is about outscoring your opposition and he did that better then anyone on the team at 5 on 5 save Scheifele who was only plus 1 higher then him.

His Goals above replacement contributions the first two years were also among the best on the team. Flawed as he was he contributed more to winning games then most other forwards. You would think the goal would be to maximize his gifts.

If you truly think that, then you would want to spread out your scoring to improve your 2nd line & team by making it harder to check vs only one line. I mean if he’s truly that good then he can drive an entire line by himself. Right?

The goal is the maximize the team’s chances at winning.....not individual players stats. Clearly there is a difference of opinion how to achieve that between certain fans and the NHL coaching staff. I’m fine having him on the top line, if it helps the team the most.....just seen no evidence of that to-date and clearly the coaching staff hasn’t either.

PS being 2nd or 3rd best on a team that’s not great 5vs5 isn’t a great claim.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

^ I don't blame Kane wanting out either. He was stuck behind trash like Ladd.... who'd still be signed here for 3 more seasons if Chevy had his way.

Really?

Funny because Ladd was more than willing to sign an extension later that season, yet we were told that Chevy never made him another offer after his first was declined.

Guess Chevy did get his way in the end

And as for Kane, when did his wanting out of this organization ever relate to linemates?

He didn’t like the city, and had the team stuck in Atlanta, he probably would still be playing on it with the same lineup

Love how a narrative can simply be created and presented as truth

 

[AWSAA]

Chevy has few poor contracts on his resume compared to many GMs.

I strongly disagree. We had way too much fat on the books when we were pushing to contend with the young stars on ELCs. People laugh about Toronto's contracts.... meanwhile we had nearly 25 million in cap tied up with Enstrom, Kulikov, Perreault, Little, and Mason in our peak season.

 

[Gm0ney]

If you truly think that, then you would want to spread out your scoring to improve your 2nd line & team by making it harder to check vs only one line. I mean if he’s truly that good then he can drive an entire line by himself. Right?

The goal is the maximize the team’s chances at winning.....not individual players stats. Clearly there is a difference of opinion how to achieve that between certain fans and the NHL coaching staff. I’m fine having him on the top line, if it helps the team the most.....just seen no evidence of that to-date and clearly the coaching staff hasn’t either.

PS being 2nd or 3rd best on a team that’s not great 5vs5 isn’t a great claim.

The Jets have enough scoring talent to spread out over 3 lines, but Maurice comes from the Top 6/Bottom 6 school of lineup architecture.