Player Discussion: Patrik Laine (mod warning in post #150)

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Howard Chuck

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Jan 24, 2012
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It's incredible to look at how good Laine is already. Just turned 20, 2nd in the scoring race last year, in the conversation for records not beaten in decades, all the while playing fewer minutes and obviously concentrating on defence as instructed by coaches. Plus with his size and lack of 'Man Strength' yet.

I can't imagine what he is going to become, and what his improvement may be as early as this coming season. I've never seen such potential from a hockey player in my viewing years, or at least been aware of the potential.

Based on the growth process for other players on the Jets, I think this is the season that they let Patrik fly.

I can't wait for the season to start!
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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That's a bold statement you have there, don't quite share that disappointment part esp. on PPG thing. But that's cool.

Not many under 21-year-olds have scored over 50 goals though.

I might be wrong, but list is something like that:

Wayne Gretzky ~70 goals (*) as 20-year-old on his 92 goal monster season 1981-1982
Jimmy Carson 55
Alexander Ovechkin 52
Steven Stamkos 51

As everyone of following guys got their birthday during their "20-year-old season", it's pretty safe to say following guys did not make the cut unless I missed something:

Graig Simpson 56 (87-88)
Pierre Larouche 53 (75-76)
Mike Bossy 53 (77-78)
Mark Messier 50 (81-82)

(*) In addition to that, Gretzky had also 51 and 55 goal seasons U21 between 1979-1981. But Gretzky is Gretzky, and that was 80's.

Source is Quanthockey.com

So there are 4 certain guys that scored 50+ goals under 21-years old, 2 of them actually even younger (Gretzky & Carson). If Laine is the 5th guy ever on that list, I would be thrilled.

Btw. Mario Lemieux himself had 43 and 48 goals on his 19-year-old and 20-year-old seasons, respectively. So since Laine already did beat Super Mario in goal scoring once, he can do it twice, or what?

I get that Wayne Gretzky has done some 175 goals, probably more U21, so he is unbeatable unless Laine pots 95+ goals next season ;-). But after Gretzky, there is a quite big drop. Carson has 141 goals. I don't think Laine is potting 61+ goals next season, so pretty unbeatable as well. After that there is an another drop. Maybe Jets legend Hawerchuck with 122 goals? To beat that Laine needs a 42+ goal season. "Easy".

That's pretty good company, and we are not even squeezing production out of Laine yet. Good times!
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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What really baffles me here are the motives for people here to jump at each other, make assumptions that are not in anyway in line with what the other person is saying , take stuff entirely out of the context and just make assumptions without really even bothering to understand what the other person was pointing out. If person A thought that the world was flat, B thought it was infinite and C knew it was around. What would be the benefit of any one of the three to jump at each other's throats because their ideology didn't match? Should anyone of them look into horizon, none could negate the other's arguments. Conversations take place and so do debates, but since we aren't discussing our ways of living or anything else that is in any way intimate, none of that should be personal. Of course hockey is a way of life sort of thing for many folks and I treat it as one, yet we are here to discuss, not judge. If you do not share someone's ideas and viewpoints, that doesn't give you the right to judge and persecute that person. If you absolutely have to lash out, there's always the main boards.

Anyway, that's enough for that. As for the expectations coming into the final ELC year, there are so many moving variables and many of them are out of Laine's hands. With a 36 and 44 goal campaigns behind him it would almost, just almost realistic to expect him to break that 50 goal barrier. If he's assigned to a primary scoring role, there's not a shadow of a doubt that he will break it. If he instead is kept in the secondary scoring position and w/o Stastny I think it would be realistic to expect something alike that was displayed in 17-18, production wise. I'm hopeful he gets a bigger role though and that he could keep defying the odds, and accomplish something unexpected once again.

Patrik is known from his goal scoring but I've always seen that dynamic side in him where he's capable of doing much more than just shooting the puck into top shelf. This young man has really terrific hockey IQ and he sees the ice so damn well. Some of those breakaway passes to Ehlers have been pretty breathtaking. Also I haven't seen many guys who can pull out a grade A hard backhand tape-to-tape pass from the left wall to the blueline or even to a linemate at the opposite wall who might be closing into the net despite the traffic involved, and actually do that consistently (often at display in the PP). His passing is so underrated but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the edges in his game are still so raw that he hasn't always been able to generate that much open space as he will in the future. He has the ability and vision in the game and I really expect his G/A ratio to settle down sooner than later, since Laine has never been a volume shooter (that's just not his game).

There was/is that Ovy vs Laine non-sense discussion in the main boards and the content wasn't exactly mind-blowing. I expect there's a lot of noise around this since he's going to be at the same age when Ovechkin jumped to NHL. Apart from that terrific ability to score goals the guys haven't got much in common. Laine seems more creative and isn't north-south type of a coaster, but more like a hybrid of a e<->w and n<->s player, and it's actually another quality about him I find intriguing. Anyway, I'll temper with the expectations but I'm pretty confident we will see a new layer from him and much more complete package come 2018-19. The start of October couldn't come much more slower to be honest. :)
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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"I predicted he will get 54-60 goals this season. He will likely upend me again. Kid is a hockey monster."

Quote from Psych0Dad made in September. Clearly he anticipated more than the predicted "54-60" based on the fact that he anticipated that Laine would "upend" him again.

That took me less than a minute to find.

"Laine 115 pts"- September

"The best winger in the team should play the most minutes.

Laine is just that. "- December

"Just in the week or so this thread has had posts saying he could have 40 goals at this day if he had different linemates(Scheifele) or go 1.3-1.5ppg this season.
Reply:
"Those are definitely realistic numbers. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. You'll learn."
1st half of february.

"He would have hit 50 in his rookie season if he was not put in the Little line. And if they had used him on first PP. But they didn't, so he didn't."
-February.
 

grieves

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Apr 27, 2016
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I don't think anyone in their right mind expected ELL to continue for as long as it did, so previous expectations definitely need context, and I think everyone knows this.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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I don't think anyone in their right mind expected ELL to continue for as long as it did, so previous expectations definitely need context, and I think everyone knows this.

He wasn't hitting 115 last season.

That's an easy top3 player in the World, challenger to McDavid.
 

grieves

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Apr 27, 2016
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He wasn't hitting 115 last season.

That's an easy top3 player in the World, challenger to McDavid.

Well he was the top ES scorer in the league with Scheifele for a long strectch at 18yo (or thereabouts). Last season he was the top PP scorer in the league.

No-one could have anticipated such a drop in TOI and the continuation of ELL.

If someone thinks something, let them think it. What's it to you.
 
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BB88

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Well he was the top ES scorer in the league with Scheifele for a long strectch at 18yo (or thereabouts). Last season he was the top PP scorer in the league.

No-one could have anticipated such a drop in TOI and the continuation of ELL.

If someone thinks something, let them think it. What's it to you.

That similar posts make it impossible to have good talks here.

It's a crazy town.
 

armyjoe

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Nov 15, 2010
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See this is where I disagree, I don't think there is a lot of Laine bashing, I think there is tempering, and people having issues with the lofty expectations some have.

I absolutely think that other players have been bashed more than Laine -
What? :D There are vets fans saying he is 8th best forward on the Jets even though he scored 44 goals. Some even said he would be benched or sent to AHL in any other team (or atleast under coach Q). He has been Jets whipping boy for sure. That is understandable though, newcomers tend to be under microscope.
/ot

I hope he has taken new step forward this offseason even though I'm waiting for his next off season's figure skating lessons before I make up my mind about his upside.
 
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Plural

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What? :D There are vets fans saying he is 8th best forward on the Jets even though he scored 44 goals. Some even said he would be benched or sent to AHL in any other team (or atleast under coach Q). He has been Jets whipping boy for sure. That is understandable though, newcomers tend to be under microscope.
/ot

I hope he has taken new step forward this offseason even though I'm waiting for his next off season's figure skating lessons before I make up my mind about his upside.

There's way more overhyping him than bashing. As I see it, vast majority of Jets fans see him as a very skilled young goal-scorer with great potential and some faults in his game.
 
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QuietContrarian

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What? :D There are vets fans saying he is 8th best forward on the Jets even though he scored 44 goals. Some even said he would be benched or sent to AHL in any other team (or atleast under coach Q). He has been Jets whipping boy for sure. That is understandable though, newcomers tend to be under microscope.
/ot

I hope he has taken new step forward this offseason even though I'm waiting for his next off season's figure skating lessons before I make up my mind about his upside.
Hyperbole much?

No more than other players..

Plus it is equaled as he is also the most hyped and talked about player on the Jets, by far. other players do not have that luxury.
 

Kaako Kappo

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Oct 12, 2016
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There's way more overhyping him than bashing. As I see it, vast majority of Jets fans see him as a very skilled young goal-scorer with great potential and some faults in his game.
"Way more overhyping". Yeah...but it's just like 4 guys posting the same stuff over and over again.
 

19GoalsInPlayoffs

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Jan 30, 2017
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There's way more overhyping him than bashing. As I see it, vast majority of Jets fans see him as a very skilled young goal-scorer with great potential and some faults in his game.
And I see him as the next _young_ Mario :rolleyes:. Seriously :).

And yes, I do know Laine is not a C. And yes, I saw Mario play. And yes, it is almost certain Laine will never reach that height and get where Mario got. And yes, I totally understand this can and will be seen as overhyping.

I don’t even expect to anyone else to understand what I mean with that statement (someone still might, though) and I know that most of you do think even saying that is outrageous. Some kind of sacrilege. But I still do think and say it ;).

My prediction for Laine at his 20-year old season: 48+57.

Yep. Unorthodox and some might say silly. Lets see.
 

RageQuit77

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Jan 5, 2016
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"Way more overhyping". Yeah...but it's just like 4 guys posting the same stuff over and over again.

Hehe.

Patrik wasn't enough productive in his two seasons sub-20 NHL career to earn clean-sweep-all-around-wise-arse-HFBoards-wide -hype, and love from everyone.

These days I can show some respect some HC-Leafers more than I can show to a random wise-arse, and not because of my own foul deeds but because of the token of my fandom. If worst enemies and the idol of my token can recognize the merit, why general audience of random fans of X-team and Y or Z player cannot?

Sample set is firmly on a trail of increasements. Some all-time records are already broken. The sophomore beard made world wide tour already, and when it doesn't matter 100 MPH standard shot can be launched. Because they are 100% right in that the curriculum this far cannot be used as an indicator for a guidance in an evaluations of the future curriculum, then effectively castrate themselves out of all threads and topics that are somehow relevant to any player's future career predictions.

They bow a name. They bow a stat. They bow the consensus.

That's not wrong per se, but if they keep themselves free for using Argument A for one player K, they shouldn't limit themselves when using it to player G too, when applicable.

For a goal scorer in the game of hockey, it's mostly irrelevant how those goals are produced. As long as they are scored. Nobody can ever show any stats or make any comparisons that would show Winnipeg Jets' #29 would've been somehow particularly sub-par in this matter, and in the key aspect of the game.

And Yes. There are more than 4 or 5 guys "overhyping" the guy, who seems to be generally underrated in this site of lovers of 2nd assists and "playmaking". Lol. ;)
 
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Ippenator

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Jan 6, 2016
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He wasn't hitting 115 last season.

That's an easy top3 player in the World, challenger to McDavid.
What’s your problem dude? You are the one constantly here whining. So what if the discussion is not exactly how YOU happen to want it to be? Who on earth cares what you or anyone else wants the discussion to be? The discussion is for sure not even close to what I would hope it to be either, but I couldn’t really care less about that either. These discussions are not tailor made to please every single individual and for sure they shouldn’t ever be that.

I do enjoy the discussions here in general, although I honestly dislike certain posters and their attitudes immensely. As some posters obviously dislike me and my posting style and opinions too. It doesn’t really matter as long as we don’t start making it personal and about judging the posters and their motives here. I think it would be best to just stay with the opinions on the players and the game and to use facts as often as we can for supporting the discussions. Still subjective opinions should also be allowed to exist.

But what I still don’t understand is why some people are very much expecting other people to just take their subjective opinion or to try to always come to some kind of a mutual understanding or consensus with each others? Different opinions and views are a great thing and they make these boards much more interesting. Maybe challenging at times, but definitely more interesting too.
 
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RageQuit77

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In it's all basic simplicity, that topic at the main boards concerning Patrik and OV is somewhat about that:

VnsLHAY.png


Names are the names of players. Colored blocks are played NHL seasons (relative to an age when they were played in their careers). Numbers indicate scored regular season goals.

No doubt we can argue next 100 pages about predictive power of Patrik's first two seasons. We cannot intrapolate Ovi back to years he didn't play NHL, but we can extrapolate Patrik to years he will be likely play in NHL.

I don't get where is the problem. It's ok to extrapolate McJesus' season points over next decade, and demand that Sid will show studness at least half dozen years past-prime, but it's impossible to make comparisons in a simple goal scoring finesses. Future career of Ovi is relatively easy to predict, no Patrik fan would claim anything else. Proven, good tastin' meal it is and likely will be.

But in case of Patrik. Nothing can defend the apparent, factual, easily achievable perception about the guy and his likely happening future in the art of Hockey goal scoring, as sample is (and will be) always too small in comparison to The Great #8.

Intellectual dishonesty is what sucks most. They handle Patrik like he would be some kind easily replaceable junk. They tend to dig stats to support their perception, but when doing so they discard other important stats. Worst thing is however that they tend to forget that Alexander was Patrik's personal idol, someone to follow... When He is then actually trying to do best he can (rare are guys who can) to make it all better, it seems to be somehow bad thing to happen.

Go Patrik Go!
 

scelaton

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Jul 5, 2012
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yes, and half a dozen guys constantly arguing with them by also posting the same stuff over and over again

:facepalm:
The shame of it is that many or most posters just don't bother posting on this thread any more.
However, I'm glad it is here because it 'quarantines' the over-the-top discussion.

Anyone who feels the same way, please Like this post
 
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BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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What’s your problem dude? You are the one constantly here whining. So what if the discussion is not exactly how YOU happen to want it to be? Who on earth cares what you or anyone else wants the discussion to be? The discussion is for sure not even close to what I would hope it to be either, but I couldn’t really care less about that either. These discussions are not tailor made to please every single individual and for sure they shouldn’t ever be that.

I do enjoy the discussions here in general, although I honestly dislike certain posters and their attitudes immensely. As some posters obviously dislike me and my posting style and opinions too. It doesn’t really matter as long as we don’t start making it personal and about judging the posters and their motives here. I think it would be best to just stay with the opinions on the players and the game and to use facts as often as we can for supporting the discussions. Still subjective opinions should also be allowed to exist.

But what I still don’t understand is why some people are very much expecting other people to just take their subjective opinion or to try to always come to some kind of a mutual understanding or consensus with each others? Different opinions and views are a great thing and they make these boards much more interesting. Maybe challenging at times, but definitely more interesting too.

I've said what my problem is. Overhyping.

One can't have good talks in Laine threads.
 
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jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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Last 25 years rookie + sophomore goal scoring(at any age):

1. Ovechkin 98 goals (3505mins TOI, 998mins PPTOI)
2.Laine 80 goals (2659mins TOI, 448 PPTOI)
2.Malkin 80 goals (3243mins TOI, 861mins PPTOI)
4.Crosby 74 goals (3270mins TOI, 920mins PPTOI)

Some people just fail to see how special he is even if the evidence is right there.
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
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Last 25 years rookie + sophomore goal scoring(at any age):

1. Ovechkin 98 goals (3505mins TOI, 998mins PPTOI)
2.Laine 80 goals (2659mins TOI, 448 PPTOI)
2.Malkin 80 goals (3243mins TOI, 861mins PPTOI)
4.Crosby 74 goals (3270mins TOI, 920mins PPTOI)

Some people just fail to see how special he is even if the evidence is right there.

Holy ****.
 
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