Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[PaulD]

but the Caps have the more recent Cup so what does traded draft picks amongst current waiver-exempt players have to do with that? On the topic of what Midnight Judges was referring to I mean (i.e., who is "ruining their future for the sake of their old legend"?) The number of Cups in career is more so a history lesson, neither team has won a Cup or even a playoff series in a long time.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

can we talk about Ovechkin in this thread?

Ovechkin's career power play goals (309 after last night) would now rank T-216th (with Martin Gelinas) all-time.

On the active list it would be 32nd, behind James van Riemsdyk (311) and ahead of David Perron (306).

 

[Toby91ca]

If Ovi "never will be" the "factually" best goal scorer of all time, who is? What criteria do you use to determine that? If he passes Wayne's record, that would mean he has the most goals of all time in addition to all of the era specific records that he holds as well, plus number of rockets, etc...

So, what criteria are you using to determine this if you are so confident to say that he never will be?

This is precisely my point....no one. Whoever you pick, it's always going to be subjective, there is no factual answer.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ovechkin's career power play goals (309 after last night) would now rank T-216th (with Martin Gelinas) all-time.

On the active list it would be 32nd, behind James van Riemsdyk (311) and ahead of David Perron (306).

This reads like OV’s power play goals are way down the all time list.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

This reads like OV’s power play goals are way down the all time list.

His PP goals are never getting into the HOF with those lame numbers.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I agree with this post. Bobby Hull led the league in scoring 7 times then spent 7 years in the WHL. He could have 9 but he doesn't. Bossy had 573 goals in 10 years. Mario only played around 150 games after age 32 and has the highest GPG. Gretzky is still the all time leader.

I don't think the argument is as clear cut as some make it out to be. Time will tell if Ovi can even break it. He fell off massively this year in terms of scoring and I don't see him improving next year or the following.

This is where we use context and realize how much easier it was to score goals in the 1980s and first half of the 1990s when Bossy and Lemieux were racking them up. His GPG should be higher.

 

[Midnight Judges]

No one wants Sid to jump ship. Stop this stupidity.

If you aren’t seeing a bunch of Crosby fans saying he should go to the Avs or to some other contender, then I wonder where you’ve been this past month. It’s all over HFBoards and Facebook and the Canadian hockey media.

It would be fine if Crosby fans weren’t running around slandering Ovie. But they do, and so it creates an obvious double standard which is quite easy for me to point out.

 

[Video Nasty]

And Lemiuex will always be greater than Connor McDavid

Am i doing it right?

Yes, Lemieux will always be greater than McDavid. Is that supposed to be a gotcha moment?

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

18 year old Connor Bedard and 38 year old Alexander Ovechkin both sit at 21 goals on the season. Who do you think ends the season with more?

OV will have more by the end of the season is my belief.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If Ovi "never will be" the "factually" best goal scorer of all time, who is? What criteria do you use to determine that? If he passes Wayne's record, that would mean he has the most goals of all time in addition to all of the era specific records that he holds as well, plus number of rockets, etc...

So, what criteria are you using to determine this if you are so confident to say that he never will be?

It’s a fair point to say there is subjectivity in who a person thinks was best.

Jmo but evidence-based thinking is superior to baseless assertions.

The preponderance of evidence clearly points to Ovechkin, much more so than any other player. I have provided much of it. But there is a lot more that I didn’t provide.

 

[Neil Racki]

Yes, Lemieux will always be greater than McDavid. Is that supposed to be a gotcha moment?

Well ... not anymore.

 

[filinski77]

It wasn’t an all Canadian league when Bobby Hull did it, and Bobby had 7 by age 32 before he left for the WHA.

Bobby Hulls first season in the WHA was his age-34 season (not 32). And in his last 3 NHL seasons before leaving for the WHA, he was nowhere close to leading the league in goals (#1 had 13%, 73%, and 32% more goals than Hull in those 3 seasons).

It is completely fair to assume that even if Hull stayed in the NHL at 34, he would have not had any additional retro-rockets.

That's even before getting into the discussion about the difficulty of being #1 in a worldwide talent pool 9 times vs being #1 in a Canadian talent pool 7 times.

 

[BallardEra]

18 year old Connor Bedard and 38 year old Alexander Ovechkin both sit at 21 goals on the season. Who do you think ends the season with more?

Going with the tie.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Bobby Hulls first season in the WHA was his age-34 season (not 32). And in his last 3 NHL seasons before leaving for the WHA, he was nowhere close to leading the league in goals (#1 had 13%, 73%, and 32% more goals than Hull in those 3 seasons).

It is completely fair to assume that even if Hull stayed in the NHL at 34, he would have not had any additional retro-rockets.

That's even before getting into the discussion about the difficulty of being #1 in a worldwide talent pool 9 times vs being #1 in a Canadian talent pool 7 times.

I said before left for WHA not during.

I was off by one year, he turned 33 in January of his last NHL season.
Hull turned 34 half way through WHA season.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[BallardEra]

From 801 to 894 is like driving a long highway with nobody on it at 3am in the morning.

 

[george14]

This is where we use context and realize how much easier it was to score goals in the 1980s and first half of the 1990s when Bossy and Lemieux were racking them up. His GPG should be higher.

Fair - but the greats also adjust. Mario was putting up bigger numbers when league scoring was down, as well.

 

[Kamaya Painters]

From 801 to 894 is like driving a long highway with nobody on it at 3am in the morning.

The first thing that came to mind was The KLF "Madrugada Eterna".

 

[WarriorofTime]

For reference I believe the 792nd career goal to this point was from November 29, 2022 (two goal game for 792 and 793) through yesterday.

 

[BallardEra]

Someone was mentioning that Ovechkin has scored at least one goal in a game more than any other player in history.

Meaning he has the most number of games where he has scored a goal.

Not sure how true or how to even find that stat.

 

[Toby91ca]

Francis triggers me twice in one day! He has more 20 goal seasons than OV and Gretzky, #2 all-time, only trailing Howe....what? This guy has never been anywhere close to leading the league in goals. On two occasions he came within 25 goals, that's the closest he's ever been. Also, those two occasions are the only two times in his career he has even come within 50% of the leading goal scoring....both years he scored 27 goals when the leader had 52.

Someone was mentioning that Ovechkin has scored at least one goal in a game more than any other player in history.

Meaning he has the most number of games where he has scored a goal.

Not sure how true or how to even find that stat.

Yeah no idea....I'm sure it's easy to find that stat but won't bother. It does pass the sniff test though....I don't remember OV scoring a ton of 3 and 4 goal games....like Gretzky for example....but not sure about 2 goal games....they don't get as much attention.

 

[filinski77]

I said before left for WHA not during.

I was off by one year, he turned 33 in January of his last NHL season.
Hull turned 34 half way through WHA season.

Still - 33.5 years old, he wasn't winning any more rockets when he left.

Would his career totals have been higher? Sure, but that's not the discussion.

 

[tarheelhockey]

NHL Totals by Nationality ‑ 1968‑1969 Stats

NHL Totals by Nationality - 1968-1969 Regular Season Stats

www.quanthockey.com

More proof that the talent pool is shrinking. Lebanon’s NHL player production has gone down by 100% during the expansion era.

This is where we use context and realize how much easier it was to score goals in the 1980s and first half of the 1990s when Bossy and Lemieux were racking them up. His GPG should be higher.

We routinely see comments trashing adjusted stats on this site, but it’s such common sense that scoring a goal isn’t “worth” the same thing in 2024 that it was in 2004 or 1984.

It seems pretty straightforward that Ovechkin’s current career total is more impressive than Gretzky’s. Yes the number is smaller, but it was done in a context where the league was a lot lower scoring. The fact that he has made it this close is effectively a superior achievement. It’s like comparing Ovie’s hockey goal total to Messi’s soccer goal total. The numbers are close, but the scale of the achievement is not.

It will still be cool to watch him surpass 894, but it seems like easily understandable common sense that this is just a formality and he has already surpassed Gretzky “as a career goal scorer”.

Francis triggers me twice in one day! He has more 20 goal seasons than OV and Gretzky, #2 all-time, only trailing Howe....what? This guy has never been anywhere close to leading the league in goals. On two occasions he came within 25 goals, that's the closest he's ever been. Also, those two occasions are the only two times in his career he has even come within 50% of the leading goal scoring....both years he scored 27 goals when the leader had 52.

Francis was also arguably a much better player at 38 than he was at 20.

His presence on a list that measures consistency and longevity makes plenty of sense. He had that Gartner-esque reliability.

 

[filinski77]

Francis triggers me twice in one day! He has more 20 goal seasons than OV and Gretzky, #2 all-time, only trailing Howe....what? This guy has never been anywhere close to leading the league in goals. On two occasions he came within 25 goals, that's the closest he's ever been. Also, those two occasions are the only two times in his career he has even come within 50% of the leading goal scoring....both years he scored 27 goals when the leader had 52.


Yeah no idea....I'm sure it's easy to find that stat but won't bother. It does pass the sniff test though....I don't remember OV scoring a ton of 3 and 4 goal games....like Gretzky for example....but not sure about 2 goal games....they don't get as much attention.

Another underrated scoring stat for sure, is how many blowout games was Gretzky scoring 2-4 goals in?

Someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but Ovechkin is the NHL all-time leader in 1st goal of the game, goals to tie the game, overtime goals, and is on the brink of passing Jagr for most game-winning goals. Ovechkin's not only doing it in one of the lowest scoring era's of all-time, but he's also one of the most clutch goal-scorers of all-time.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

An underrated achievement.