Advice: Outside edges as new skater/player?

[Matt Guadagnolo]

Hi All,
I recently came back to picking up skating (naturally moving back to hockey as well) after about 15-20 years of not being on skates. I picked it up fairly easily again...took me about 2-3 skates before i was stable, stopping etc....but even when I was younger, i never could do cross overs. Now that I'm confident enough to throw a puck out on to the ice with a stick while im out, i also want to be able to corner properly instead of just gliding on the inside edge of my outer skate like a panzy.
My issue is - I watch all the videos about doing them, and I feel like it looks easy....but when I'm actually skating, i get pretty afraid when I go on my outside edge. I know that sounds stupid to people who have played hockey forever, but i even try bending my knees a ton and I just feel like super afraid to lean to the left or right. I'm a bigger guy (248lbs) but reasonably strong for my size and i like to think pretty energetic. I've tried using the stick holding it on the inside for balance and that helped a bit I guess, but I feel like I just lose my skate when I try to make it go under me. Keep in mind like I said, I'm a bit bigger so I don't have the skinniest of legs...
I'm wondering if this is like the kickflip effect when you were a kid where you just have to go for it once and ull have the confidence to do it forever? I feel like my ankle is going to buckle over or something even though my skates are pretty snug and edges sharp.
Advice?

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[KevinRedkey]

Try doing it away from the boards, if an injury is even remotely on your mind.
Take lessons? No shame in that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Don’t feel too badly... outside edges can be really tough and they are vital to crossovers.

My daughter is 8, been skating since she was four and everyone raves about her skating... she can do one foot stops on all edges, transition on one foot and has crazy good balance and does things you wouldn’t believe.

However, she’s having trouble learning how to do proper crossovers on her left side. On her right she is a champ, but her left side she just can’t hold her outside edge, so she does the bunny hop crossovers.

So I have her back at the basics for her left side. Just getting her to feel comfortable with her weight on that outside edge.

I do a drill with a stick on the ice and have her try to turn around the stick with just her left foot, and her right foot off the ice.

This forces you to use your outside edge and have all of your weight on it.

She keeps drifting the other way though because she wants to go on her inside edge... it’s not easy, so that’s ok like I tell her.

Next time you are at public skate just keep trying to make left and right turns with your back foot off the ice. It will feel awkward and you will drift in weird ways until you develop the balance and ankle strength to do it.

You will start really feeling that outside edge over time. Develop that skill first and then make another post and I’ll give you some crossover tips.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Well, cross-overs involve both the inside and outside edges. The inside foot uses the outside edge, the outside foot uses the inside edge while crossing over.

Might want to check this segment on Skating from Hockey Canada regarding Edge Control. They have you do work on both edges to balance and get more comfortable on both edges.


And here's the segment on Crossovers

 

[HansonBro]

250 eh? Might try taping just above your ankle. Put on skate, pull hockey sock down over the tounge and wrap clear tape 3 times along the bottom inch of the sock. Tape should be wrapped firmly but not super tight. Should provide some extra support to help you (and the skate) hold those edges

 

[HansonBro]

Found this in another thread from "some guy"...

And thirdly, focus on the fundamentals/techniques over speed to start. For instance if you are working on crossovers using the faceoff circles as a figure 8 track, be deliberate with your strides and crossovers. Skate at an easy pace and work on the fluidity of the strides. Speed will only come once you can be fluid. Same goes for taking shots. They wont be 99mph until your technique is proper first. Dont forget these things will eventually become second nature to you and thats the point of any drill.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Also, go to Stick and Pucks session so you can wear your full gear and have more confidence to push yourself. Go to the faceoff circle and start crossing over, start very slow and deliberate with out a puck, keep working on it, both sides/ways, while working on your strong side first. Slowly build up speed.

Then you do Figure 8's around both faceoff circles to work on both your strong and weak side cross overs. Add a puck and more speed as you get better and more confidence.

It's like Russian circles

 

[Matt Guadagnolo]

im just afraid i think. like i watch videos and it seems so easy, but i get out on the ice and i feel like my ankle is going to curl over and snap if i try. remember, im a bigger fellow

 

[rambo97]

Oh man I spent 6 months trying to help my 9 year old with his cross overs (just this year). I also read everything there was online to help him.

So here goes with what worked for him:

-practice just doing the cross under first. So go around in a circle just using the cross under-push to push your way around in a circle. Do it going both way. Don't worry about your outside leg yet....just use the push under over and over to turn.
-Once you can do that then practice crossing your feet over each other in a standing position (going both ways again). This is to get you comfortable (and work on your balance) with crossing you feet over
-Once you get a hang of the above practice doing the cross over but here's the big thing - raise your inside arm of whichever way you are turning. The arm should be parallel to the ice.

This worked for my son. I think for a lot of people that struggle with the crossover it's because their shoulder dips to much the wrong way.

I also made him balance at home (no skates - just bare feet) against a wall (but not touching the wall) to mimic the body position required for the crossover. I read this hint somewhere online and it did work for my son. So what it entails is you to balance on the edge of your foot closest to the wall (like you would on your outside edge on the inside leg). I would make him do it over and over and if he lost his balance the wall was there to protect him. So try it out and it might help you as well.

He is now great at cross-overs.

Hope this helps. If you need any advice or have further questions please don't hesitate to ask. Good luck.

p.s. Do some edge work every time you are on ice. Do half circles (1 leg on ice, 1 leg off ice) on inside edge (this one is easiest for hockey players) and outside edges. The videos posted above have demonstrations of what I am saying)

 

[Filthy Dangles]

im just afraid i think. like i watch videos and it seems so easy, but i get out on the ice and i feel like my ankle is going to curl over and snap if i try. remember, im a bigger fellow

You mentioned you're heavyset, what kind of skates do you use? Might need a stiffer boot that can more support your weight. Entry level skates have 'give' to them for beginners but if you weight a lot like 250 pounds, the boot could be 'giving out' under your weight causing that feeling you described like you're gonna roll your ainkle over.

Assuming you get (or it's not actually an issue) the skate thing sorted out, I'd recommend finding Stick and Puck session where you can wear your full gear to give you more confidence to push yourself and be less afraid to fall.

And a hockey clinic or two probably wouldn't hurt either. I know rinks in my area offer ones where you can drop by and do it on the fly.

 

[Matt Guadagnolo]

You mentioned you're heavyset, what kind of skates do you use? Might need a stiffer boot that can more support your weight. Entry level skates have 'give' to them for beginners but if you weight a lot like 250 pounds, the boot could be 'giving out' under your weight causing that feeling you described like you're gonna roll your ainkle over.

Assuming you get (or it's not actually an issue) the skate thing sorted out, I'd recommend finding Stick and Puck session where you can wear your full gear to give you more confidence to push yourself and be less afraid to fall.

And a hockey clinic or two probably wouldn't hurt either. I know rinks in my area offer ones where you can drop by and do it on the fly.

I have new CCM Tacks Classics. They are pretty strong.

 

[jw2]

Hi All,
I recently came back to picking up skating (naturally moving back to hockey as well) after about 15-20 years of not being on skates. I picked it up fairly easily again...took me about 2-3 skates before i was stable, stopping etc....but even when I was younger, i never could do cross overs. Now that I'm confident enough to throw a puck out on to the ice with a stick while im out, i also want to be able to corner properly instead of just gliding on the inside edge of my outer skate like a panzy.
My issue is - I watch all the videos about doing them, and I feel like it looks easy....but when I'm actually skating, i get pretty afraid when I go on my outside edge. I know that sounds stupid to people who have played hockey forever, but i even try bending my knees a ton and I just feel like super afraid to lean to the left or right. I'm a bigger guy (248lbs) but reasonably strong for my size and i like to think pretty energetic. I've tried using the stick holding it on the inside for balance and that helped a bit I guess, but I feel like I just lose my skate when I try to make it go under me. Keep in mind like I said, I'm a bit bigger so I don't have the skinniest of legs...
I'm wondering if this is like the kickflip effect when you were a kid where you just have to go for it once and ull have the confidence to do it forever? I feel like my ankle is going to buckle over or something even though my skates are pretty snug and edges sharp.
Advice?

Similar. To go along with skateboarding, it would be more similar to the first time you tried to ollie a set of stairs. If you arent going fast enough, you have no chance. Need (enough) speed to keep you going forward (and not falling). And it takes practice. you WILL fall. Several times. Keep doing circles. That glide circles posted by filthy dangles is your first step. Just keep adding more speed. Then 1 crossover at a time.

 

[jayarebee]

Nothing to be ashamed of or concerned about, heck I still feel goofy when using my outside edges.. especially when coaching lol. I just got a new pair of skates so I am trying to do a lot of the skating drills with the kids to get my own feet moving well again in these new skates. Guess I'm just lucky to have the ice time and a supportive group I work with. Some of the parents are actually pretty happy that I'm showing the kids how to "break in" a new pair of skates.. and also see that even a 35 year old who started skating and playing at age 5 up until my early 20's can still have difficulty skating.

I feel like I am re-teaching myself with this new pair of skates... With my old pair I have no issues, we do a lot of "Waves" basically lines at both ends, and a lot of skating up and down the ice.

The best drills for the outside and inside edges are probably the simple C cuts/turns, turning on one foot. Inside edges being that "outside" foot, easier than the Outside edges which takes the "inside" foot.. Sounds redundant but I'm always reminding the kids (especially the lazy ones) which feet to use as they skate down the ice. I do the drills myself as silly as I look, especially in my new skates... and yeah I'm afraid to fall in these new skates lol.

Just keep working on it, I always find it best to find a public skate or any open ice time and just skate around the circles, sometimes just pushing on one foot through all 5 circles starting in one corner, taking my time, making sure I feel comfortable and just balancing on one foot, then the other... etc. I'll literally skate the circles over and over just using one foot as much as possible, crossing over slowly, and then switching feet... feels a little better every-time.

Good luck, you'll be ripping the ice up in no time... As I tell the kids, don't worry about falling in practice, this is the time to do it... Stay in open ice, toss some shin-pads and elbow pads on, helmet if desired. Be safe, work hard but no need to kill yourself... just takes time and practice... heck I'm 35 and feel like I am re-learning everything thanks to my new skates

 

[TheBluePenguin]

As someone who teaches a LOT of really small kids as they start to skate (Help run a Learn to Play program) The one thing I always point out is this

When you stand or move forward on skates your feet need to start underneath your body. BUT if you are crossing over you need to place your INSIDE foot in front of your body, So left foot if turning left and right foot when turning right.

See this picture, notice how his left leg is out in front, the outside edge is WAY easier to balance.

 

[rh71]

You have to be comfortable on your inner leg's edge doing a simple gradual turn (both feet) before getting good at crossovers since all your weight shifts onto the 1 leg briefly. Someone mentioned figure-8s (use a lot of space initially) so go into those with a bit of speed and focus on your inside leg on each turn and lean more (both feet) each time you do it along with doing it at various speeds. Since you've already watched videos on the technique of crossovers, I think it's more of an issue with your weight shift & confidence on one leg (lean) at a time so I'd work on those leans first while gradually shifting to only 1 leg.

The above poster brought up a point about foot placement for your inside leg. Picture a standing diagonal line. Your upper body is leaning into the turn while on the bottom, your inside leg starts under you but quickly finds its way on the opposite of the lean. Simultaneously, the crossover foot (inside edge) comes over and catches you for the next accelerating push.

2 other things to remember:
A slight bend in the knee is also crucial to being able to balance on 1 leg at speed.
The cross-under foot must also continue the push to get the most speed from a crossover.

Once you get comfortable on one-leg, this common drill is best for outside-edge/cross-overs: (start at 1:38).

 

[tawheed]

Bend your knees more than you think you're supposed to, it'll make it way easier to use all of your edges. Think of your knee going over top of your toe when you're bending your knees. ALSO, turn your entire upper body in to turn. I coach young kids and have watched my son's powerskating instruction, they get them to lead with their stick, put your stick into the turn, turn your body and you'll find your edges much easier to use. Also, to get used to the motion, do stationary cross overs to find those edges. Best of luck!

 

[I am toxic]

I feel like my ankle is going to buckle over or something even though my skates are pretty snug and edges sharp.
Advice?

Three things to think about - ankle control, getting on your outside edges (which later leads to concepts of controlled partial falling, centrifugal/centripetal forces), and skate sharpness.


______________

For ankles, get a bosu ball:

Each day, take less than 2 minutes and do the following:

- with the flat side on the ground, stand on one foot in the centre, balanced on the ball of your foot, for a count of 10 full seconds, then repeat with the other foot; the key is to bend your ankle as much as possible, as though you are forcing your shin to touch your toes; keep your chest upright (your hips and knees will bend naturally, it is all in the ankle and the chest postition)

then flip the bosu ball over so the round part is on the ground, and repeat the same thing while standing on one foot in the center of the flat side; this is actually easier, so once you are able to do it for 10 seconds, move on to doing the exact same thing on this side with your eyes closed - make sure there is background noise to allow yourself some balance, it is very difficult to do this in a silent room

This will improve balance and ankle control.

_____________________________

Then, go to public skate and get one of the training aids:

Go to a quiet session where there are few skaters and lots of room, then practice doing high-speed donuts where you get on your outside edges and your body (legs and torso) are leaned over more than 45 degrees. Do lots of reverse/changes of direction. GIVE YOURSELF LOTS OF ROOM

_____________

For skate sharpness, you might want to take some of the edge off. Consider a 5/8 or 6/8 radius of hollow. (I go with a 7/8 roh and have not sharpened my skates in a couple years, about 100 ice sessions - that's a bit extreme but after over 45 years that what works for me). If you don't like how it feels, you can go back to 1/2 on your next skate sharpening.

 

[Matt Guadagnolo]

Three things to think about - ankle control, getting on your outside edges (which later leads to concepts of controlled partial falling, centrifugal/centripetal forces), and skate sharpness.


______________

For ankles, get a bosu ball:

Each day, take less than 2 minutes and do the following:

- with the flat side on the ground, stand on one foot in the centre, balanced on the ball of your foot, for a count of 10 full seconds, then repeat with the other foot; the key is to bend your ankle as much as possible, as though you are forcing your shin to touch your toes; keep your chest upright (your hips and knees will bend naturally, it is all in the ankle and the chest postition)

then flip the bosu ball over so the round part is on the ground, and repeat the same thing while standing on one foot in the center of the flat side; this is actually easier, so once you are able to do it for 10 seconds, move on to doing the exact same thing on this side with your eyes closed - make sure there is background noise to allow yourself some balance, it is very difficult to do this in a silent room

This will improve balance and ankle control.

_____________________________

Then, go to public skate and get one of the training aids:

Go to a quiet session where there are few skaters and lots of room, then practice doing high-speed donuts where you get on your outside edges and your body (legs and torso) are leaned over more than 45 degrees. Do lots of reverse/changes of direction. GIVE YOURSELF LOTS OF ROOM

_____________

For skate sharpness, you might want to take some of the edge off. Consider a 5/8 or 6/8 radius of hollow. (I go with a 7/8 roh and have not sharpened my skates in a couple years, about 100 ice sessions - that's a bit extreme but after over 45 years that what works for me). If you don't like how it feels, you can go back to 1/2 on your next skate sharpening.

haha I actually did this. the rink near me doesnt have the "skatehelper" ones though which stack for adults. So I was hunched over but I think using those doesn't help me lead with my head and shoulders cause you're crunched over. I did get on the outside edge though it was wild. WILD.

 

[Matt Guadagnolo]

and I do have a 11/16 hollow.

 

[I am toxic]

haha I actually did this. the rink near me doesnt have the "skatehelper" ones though which stack for adults. So I was hunched over but I think using those doesn't help me lead with my head and shoulders cause you're crunched over. I did get on the outside edge though it was wild. WILD.

Look for these ones:

Seriously, find someone who can skate well, and then have the two of you battle on the training aid, one on the front, one on the back, trying to spin the other off.

Wear protective gear, and do it where no one else is skating.