Ottawa U's hockey team put on ice

[ckg927]

Literally.

The Gee-Gee's hockey squad has been suspended for the entire 2014-15 season-and its head coach and program manager have been fired-over allegations regarding a gang sexual assault on a team road trip to Thunder Bay earlier this year, according to Ottawa's 1310 News.

More details here(skimpy at the moment, but more will likely be on the way)...

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/rock-to-issue-statement-on-suspended-u-of-o-hockey-team

Click to read more...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Note

Please stay on topic, touching only on substantiated and linked facts. No innuendo, hearsay, suppositions, etc.

 

[Drummer]

I think the punishment is a bit too strong for the issue at hand. To hang-out the entire team, coaching staff, student staff and support staff for the actions of 2 or 3 student athletes is a bit heavy handed.

I don't condone whatever they did as they must have done something to warrant a criminal investigation (charges or not). At this stage it is speculation as to where the Crown will lay charges - a 'he said - she said' case is difficult at the best of times.

A suspension of the players (possibly expel then from the school - I mean if they are that rotten why allow them to attend your institution - they can't play if they aren't in school), add an administrative suspension for the coach add the 11 recommendations and you're all done. Have the president, AD, Coach and captain apologize and move on, but alas we have to have this grand skeptical 5 months after the incident and burn everything to the ground.

It will be interesting to see if they post a job opening next Spring for the 2015/16 season (they did say it was just a 'suspension') or if at that time they just quietly walk away from hockey all together - "tight fiscal times... balanced budget... budget shortfall", etc.

 

[Drummer]

ps. so, what does the OUA do? Do they award forfeits to everyone who was going to play UoO or do they re-build the schedule?

 

[Hollywood3]

ps. so, what does the OUA do? Do they award forfeits to everyone who was going to play UoO or do they re-build the schedule?

That's what makes the actions of the U of O so irresponsible. They had no have known when this happened that, at best, charges would be awaiting trial at this time.

And now come the law suits ...

All we know is:

- 3 players involved

- the coach took 3 weeks to report

- there may or may not have been a criminal act involved

- the victim did not report this and did not co-operate with police

IMO, the U does not need to wait for a conviction to take action. However, they do need to satisfy themselves as to the facts.

I would like to know on what basis they feel satisfied that they could take action against all yet not prohibit them from attending the school.

 

[Dutch]

If no charges are ever pressed against those investigated, I could see this going to court just like it did in the Duke lacrosse team case. U of O must have known something more or else that move just ends up being one to save their faces.

If charges are pressed, I still think suspending the program isn't the right move. Throwing everyone under the bus for the acts of three isn't appropriate. Expel the guilty and fire Paiement, as he covered it, but giving the same punishment to innocent human beings ends up, once again, being a PR move.

As for the program, that's the equivalent of the death penalty. Players are already calling other teams to play somewhere else. It's gonna take a long time to rebuild it, but I don't think the university really cares about on-ice results anyway. This isn't NCAA football, there isn't money to be made.

 

[AUS Fan]

Thanks to 'Foyle for the tweet:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/ottawa-gee-gees-men-hockey-team-amid-sexual-221645807.html

 

[Fandlauer]

Total overreaction. Suspending an entire team for an act that 3 players are alleged to have committed is absolute nonsense. That being said, Allan Rock and ridiculous nonsensical responses seem to go hand in hand.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

ps. so, what does the OUA do? Do they award forfeits to everyone who was going to play UoO or do they re-build the schedule?

OUA has stated that they will redo the schedule without the Ottawa games.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Total overreaction. Suspending an entire team for an act that 3 players are alleged to have committed is absolute nonsense. That being said, Allan Rock and ridiculous nonsensical responses seem to go hand in hand.

Agreed. They should have suspended the three players involved and moved on, just as several NCAA hockey teams have done in the past. But then they would have to name the players, which Rock seems reluctant to do. But I believe Rock is being over-protective of student privacy or cowardly as to me it looks like uOttawa wants this whole mess just go away. The team could have easily suspended, and still can, the players involved "for breaking team rules" and never mention the alleged assault. If others want to connect the dots, so be it ... That's how it happens in the NCAA.

I'm a bit cynical. uOttawa has not shown any real interest in varsity hockey for years. They've put next to no money into the program for recruiting and scholarships. Carleton is an "expansion team" and in a few short years passed the Gee Gees in competitiveness.

I agree with what Nick Murray tweeted yesterday. I believe we are one year away from seeing uOttawa kill their men's hockey team permanently, if for only for the cost savings. I imagine Paiement has been fired for "just cause" meaning that they don't have to pay out the rest of his contract. Therefore they won't spend any money on the hockey team this upcoming season, and I doubt they will spend any more going forward.

But I hope I'm wrong.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Agreed. They should have suspended the three players involved and moved on, just as several NCAA hockey teams have done in the past. But then they would have to name the players, which Rock seems reluctant to do. But I believe Rock is being over-protective of student privacy or cowardly as to me it looks like uOttawa wants this whole mess just go away. The team could have easily suspended, and still can, the players involved "for breaking team rules" and never mention the alleged assault. If others want to connect the dots, so be it ... That's how it happens in the NCAA.

But I hope I'm wrong.

Yes, but the difference between Ottawa and the NCAA cases you speak of is that there is a ton of money at stake with those NCAA programs, and virtually none in Ottawa. Boston University and North Dakota are not going to risk the huge income generated by their hockey programs, but it would be a different story if it involved one of their club hockey teams in the ACHA, or something along those lines, that generates no revenue. Those programs would be dropped just as quickly as Ottawa is dropping their hockey program.

At the end of the day, Ottawa is not a sports-oriented school, so this decision is very consistent with the overall leaning of the university. It's not the right thing to do, but it's not surprising.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Issues

Consider the key issues.

The delay by the coach/coaching staff reporting the alleged incident. This did not facilitate the investigation by the police or the university of the alleged incident.

Hiring a new coach or coaching staff at this time. What available coach(es), qualified with career ambitions would take a job with no roster guarantees or any guarantees that the season would actually be played or that any resulting suspensions would not result if forfitures or a decimated program goin forward.

 

[Canadiens1958]

University of Vermont

Yes, but the difference between Ottawa and the NCAA cases you speak of is that there is a ton of money at stake with those NCAA programs, and virtually none in Ottawa. Boston University and North Dakota are not going to risk the huge income generated by their hockey programs, but it would be a different story if it involved one of their club hockey teams in the ACHA, or something along those lines, that generates no revenue. Those programs would be dropped just as quickly as Ottawa is dropping their hockey program.

At the end of the day, Ottawa is not a sports-oriented school, so this decision is very consistent with the overall leaning of the university. It's not the right thing to do, but it's not surprising.

Consider the University of Vermont situation roughly 15 years ago:

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2000/02/03_attorney.php

Suggest focusing on the "less than truthful" element that is common to both situations.

 

[MiamiHockey]

The delay by the coach/coaching staff reporting the alleged incident. This did not facilitate the investigation by the police or the university of the alleged incident.

Feel free to explain how the coach's delay in reporting what he knew to the University of Ottawa affected the police investigation in Thunder Bay.

 

[WilcoxHound]

I'm a bit cynical. uOttawa has not shown any real interest in varsity hockey for years. They've put next to no money into the program for recruiting and scholarships. Carleton is an "expansion team" and in a few short years passed the Gee Gees in competitiveness.

I agree with what Nick Murray tweeted yesterday. I believe we are one year away from seeing uOttawa kill their men's hockey team permanently, if for only for the cost savings. I imagine Paiement has been fired for "just cause" meaning that they don't have to pay out the rest of his contract. Therefore they won't spend any money on the hockey team this upcoming season, and I doubt they will spend any more going forward.

But I hope I'm wrong.

Two years ago the Athletic Director at UOttawa delegated men's hockey as a Tier II sport at the school. He had selected sports like football, basketball and women's soccer as the flagship sports at UO. This was not just a declaration but Tier I teams were awarded significant budget increases. In order to survive men's hockey found it necessary to increase it's off campus fund raising efforts.

 

[clear the track]

Truth

Consider the University of Vermont situation roughly 15 years ago:

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2000/02/03_attorney.php

Suggest focusing on the "less than truthful" element that is common to both situations.

Explain "Less than truthful Element"

I like Real Paiement. A good coach. Everything else aside He should have know better. He should have reported the incident immediately. He made a judgement in error and is paying a huge price. Hardly less than truthful.

By all accounts the players have cooperated with the North Bay police.

Those that didnt probably lawyered up as well they should have.

As far as the u Ottawa internal investigation. (mod) Moderator delete says it all.

Bottom Line. 90% of the players on this team have been unfairly labelled by Alan Rock and his left wing leanings.

IRONY:

We have an extremely Left Wing, Very Sucessful, Hard Hitting Lawyer who will be representing the players in their lawsuit against the U Ottawa. Make no mistake, this lawsuit will be a walk in the park for an acknowledged Civil Libertarian.

By the time Mr Greenspon is finished with U Ottawa they will have all the negative
publicity they can handle. During this process you can expect Mr. Rock to be hiding in the weeds.

Prediction

Losers in this Battle

We as taxpayers who will ultimately pay for this travesty
U Ottawa's already tarnished reputation
The u Ottawa hockey Program that is one of the oldest in the nation

Winners

Those student athletes who have been thrown under the bus, then kicked while laying there.

My apologies to RMC

 

[WilcoxHound]

Explain "Less than truthful Element"

I like Real Paiement. A good coach. Everything else aside He should have know better. He should have reported the incident immediately. He made a judgement in error and is paying a huge price. Hardly less than truthful.

By all accounts the players have cooperated with the North Bay police.

Those that didnt probably lawyered up as well they should have.

As far as the u Ottawa internal investigation. (mod)

Bottom Line. 90% of the players on this team have been unfairly labelled by Alan Rock and his left wing leanings.

IRONY:

We have an extremely Left Wing, Very Sucessful, Hard Hitting Lawyer who will be representing the players in their lawsuit against the U Ottawa. Make no mistake, this lawsuit will be a walk in the park for an acknowledged Civil Libertarian.

By the time Mr Greenspon is finished with U Ottawa they will have all the negative
publicity they can handle. During this process you can expect Mr. Rock to be hiding in the weeds.

Prediction

Losers in this Battle

We as taxpayers who will ultimately pay for this travesty
U Ottawa's already tarnished reputation
The u Ottawa hockey Program that is one of the oldest in the nation

Winners

Those student athletes who have been thrown under the bus, then kicked while laying there.

My apologies to RMC

magnifico

 

[northvanman]

OUA has stated that they will redo the schedule without the Ottawa games.

Ottawa's games have been pulled from the schedule on the OUA website and on some of the team websites. There will be more to come though because everthing is out of balance right now - I believe the 9 other East teams were scheduled to play them twice, 8 of the West teams to play them once, Windsor to play them twice and they were not scheduled to play Lakehead at all.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Or

Feel free to explain how the coach's delay in reporting what he knew to the University of Ottawa affected the police investigation in Thunder Bay.

"Or" does not require the connectivity you are trying to make.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Here is the complete quote ...

The delay by the coach/coaching staff reporting the alleged incident. This did not facilitate the investigation by the police or the university of the alleged incident.

Please re-read these sentences ... when you put them together in the same paragraph, you imply that the delay by the coach did not facilitate the investigation by the police.

Obviously, their delay in reporting to the university delayed the university investigation. That is tautological.

I find it hard to believe that the coach's delay in reporting the alleged incident to the university had any impact on the police investigation. Yet, that is what you are saying. I was hoping you could explain to everyone how that is possible.

If it's not possible, then why mention the police investigation?

 

[Drummer]

Dal Report

All of this finger pointing in Ottawa and we still haven't seen the CIS report on the Dal Hockey Program yet. Just when things were quieting down in the early Summer for them to sneak it into a late Friday release - BAM - CIS Hockey is front cover nation wide with everyone looking for the next thread.

I'm sure there is a CIS PR guy sitting in a room in Ottawa just cursing at all of this knowing that the Dal report has to get shelved for another few months.

Here is a story from last July where the reporter states the "CIS expects results soon".

DAL Hockey Probe Should be Finished

 

[Drummer]

Thanks to 'Foyle for the tweet:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/ottawa-gee-gees-men-hockey-team-amid-sexual-221645807.html

I like Neate, but I don't agree with his support of OttawaU's suspension of the program.

I could write more, but I would just be re-hashing what everyone else has said who believes it's too strong a response.

 

[Canadiens1958]

McGill 2005 Football Hazing Incident

Some background and comparables to the 2005 McGill FB hazing incident:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/mcgill-scraps-football-season-over-hazing-1.553792

Note to the readers. Do some research to see how quickly the story died after it became known who the alleged victim was and Dick Pound, well known lawyer, Stikeman, Elliott, Partner and McGill Alum, governor, became involved. Cards were folded very quickly.

As for the famous civil rights lawyer getting involved - universities have deep pockets, the case will drag for years - evidenced Bertuzzi - Moore, more than 10 years since the incident and not close to resolution at the initial stage of the suit before appeals.

So do not get your hopes up.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Obviously

Here is the complete quote ...



Please re-read these sentences ... when you put them together in the same paragraph, you imply that the delay by the coach did not facilitate the investigation by the police.

Obviously, their delay in reporting to the university delayed the university investigation. That is tautological.

I find it hard to believe that the coach's delay in reporting the alleged incident to the university had any impact on the police investigation. Yet, that is what you are saying. I was hoping you could explain to everyone how that is possible.

If it's not possible, then why mention the police investigation?

The delay in reporting the incident to the university prevented the university from acting immediately, providing the team with immediate and appropriate legal advice while limiting all possible taints to the investigation process that resulted from the ensuing delays.

In other words instead of limiting the circle of guilt to those directly involved in the incident, everyone connected to the hockey team during that trip fell under the umbrella of suspicion and police investigation.

Net result, no hockey program for at least one season, perhaps longer as the program if it returns will have to be rebuilt from the bottom.

 

[WilcoxHound]

As for the famous civil rights lawyer getting involved - universities have deep pockets, the case will drag for years - evidenced Bertuzzi - Moore, more than 10 years since the incident and not close to resolution at the initial stage of the suit before appeals.

So do not get your hopes up.

To have this drag on in the media would be an excellent move by the players. I sincerely doubt that UO wants to see national news reports pop up every time there is a court date or a press release. The reputation of this school is already trash I can't see them wanting to reinforce that message for the next 10 years.