Other fan's perspective

[Hammettf2b]

That's not what I remember at all. People loved/liked those picks. Not much criticism.

Here's Larkin's thread.

"I'm happy with this."
"I don't mind the pick"
"I am happy with this."
"Nice pick!"
"future capt material. good enough"
"good size and a C. Not who I expected but still good"
"I like this pick a lot."
"Can't go wrong with an all-around player that likes to bring his A game every night."
"A Helm with better hands is absolutely a player you take a 15."

I'm not going through the whole thread. It's 30 damn pages. But even taken as hyperbole, your "nobody wanted" doesn't pass the sniff test.

I think you need to reevaluate your opinion of people's criticism of this team. You seem to instantly assume that everyone craps over everything for no reason but that's just not true. People are pretty measured about what they're criticizing and it's usually not without merit.

after he was drafted yes. my point was before the draft, Larkin and Mantha were not the consensus.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Meh, it is way too early to pass final judgment on Ras and Cholo as draft picks at this point. Ras has been property of the Red Wings for all of two and a half months for ****s sake.


Chychrun will always be a frustrating subject around here for Wings fans. Sadly, few want to admit that passing on him was not a pure drafting decision. I have yet to read anything that firmly establishes that the Wings would have taken Cholo over Chychrun at 16 anyways. I think passing on Chychrun was a mistake, but I don't consider it an example of our poor drafting. The mistake was prioritizing the movement of Pav's contract over drafting (which is a microcosm of the rebuild vs. streak debate).

I agree though with the general premise that we have not drafted nearly as well as we need to.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

after he was drafted yes. my point was before the draft, Larkin and Mantha were not the consensus.

But that's because we didn't expect either player to be available.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I am more mad about losing fabbro over chy

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Just because Detroit didn't pick people you wanted doesn't mean they lost their touch. But the picking has been questionable. Especially wanting cholo over people like fabbro/chy. They were gonna pick him over them at that position anyway


I feel like the 2nd round picks and on have been pretty good. Hronek. Saarijarvi and more. But the first round these past two years have been brutal

That's BS. Prove it that at 16 they were going to take Cholo over Fabbro/Chychrun. They made the trade so they could "compete for a playoff spot" and accumulate an extra second round pick.

 

[Henkka]

That's BS. Prove it that at 16 they were going to take Cholo over Fabbro/Chychrun. They made the trade so they could "compete for a playoff spot" and accumulate an extra second round pick.

And they took Hronek on that extra second.

I would take Cholowski+Hronek any day before just Chychrun or Fabbro. Period.

 

[Pavels Dog]

That's BS. Prove it that at 16 they were going to take Cholo over Fabbro/Chychrun. They made the trade so they could "compete for a playoff spot" and accumulate an extra second round pick.

Prove that they wouldn't have? We don't know except for history indicating that Holland likes to trade down when it means they can still get "their guy".

Cholo looks very promising as does Hronek so this has potential to be a trade we look back on extremely favorably.

 

[Syckle78]

What about Cholo looks very promising? He's done absolutely nothing in his d+1 year to assuage concerns over the pick.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What about Cholo looks very promising? He's done absolutely nothing in his d+1 year to assuage concerns over the pick.

I haven't watched him personally all that much, but he seemed to earn very good reviews from both the WJ showcase and the recent prospect tournament. He's also added a lot of mass already which was one of the big questionmarks.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/09/recent_red_wings_top_pick_denn.html

"Cholowski was one of the Detroit Red Wings' best players in an otherwise disappointing prospects tournament last week. He followed that with a strong showing in his first main camp."

I don't know, maybe I'm way, way off here.

 

[Heaton]

Cholo looked a lot like what XO did when he was younger.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Cholo looked a lot like what XO did when he was younger.

Cholowski is a much, much better skater which is good considering it's the main fact holding XO back from being a pretty damn good player.

 

[Frk It]

Cholo looked a lot like what XO did when he was younger.

His skating is drastically better. Also longer.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't care how a given prospect looks against his most recent minor league and/or tournament level of competition. Lots of guys do very well until they hit the NHL, then fizzle. Including guys like Kindl and Smith.

It's been 14 years since Quincey was drafted, and 17 since Kronwall. Until Detroit manages to once again draft and develop 1-2 defensemen that are consistent assets with the big club, I'm skeptical of their system, at least on the blue line.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Don't really think they were out of line sharing their opinion here, or were disrespectful about it...

But then again, I'm not a fan of our last two 1st rounders and have said as much, so maybe it's just because I agree with them.

And national writers like Pronman are in agreeance with what the OP is saying, so not like it's out of thin air. Hard to say those two picks aren't controversial, tbh. The jury is definitely out, but I see where people are coming from.

I overreacted, obviously. It shouldn't have been anywhere near that defensive.

I just see why the Wings made the picks they did. I really am starting to like the Rasmussen pick because it will be nice to have an honest to goodness net front guy instead of ham-******* guys who are ill fits there. Mantha needs to be away from the net to use his shot. Sheahan went from a decent 3C with a heavy shot to a really really mediocre net front W. Abby is a piano puller who is good at getting clean ice for guys to make moves, not standing in front of a goalie, at least not with Pavel firing pucks off his ass into the net. Also, Liljegren fell to 16. If he were a slam dunk pick that they whiffed on... what the hell were picks 10-15 doing?

I guess I just figured it was WAY WAY too early on any of these guys to intimate that the Wings have "lost their touch" on drafting when we are literally in draft+1 and draft year for all the guys. Just too much prognosticating about an opinion.

 

[Frk It]

I overreacted, obviously. It shouldn't have been anywhere near that defensive.

I just see why the Wings made the picks they did. I really am starting to like the Rasmussen pick because it will be nice to have an honest to goodness net front guy instead of ham-******* guys who are ill fits there. Mantha needs to be away from the net to use his shot. Sheahan went from a decent 3C with a heavy shot to a really really mediocre net front W. Abby is a piano puller who is good at getting clean ice for guys to make moves, not standing in front of a goalie, at least not with Pavel firing pucks off his ass into the net. Also, Liljegren fell to 16. If he were a slam dunk pick that they whiffed on... what the hell were picks 10-15 doing?

I guess I just figured it was WAY WAY too early on any of these guys to intimate that the Wings have "lost their touch" on drafting when we are literally in draft+1 and draft year for all the guys. Just too much prognosticating about an opinion.

It's too early to say they were bad picks. I agree with that. I do think they were controversial picks, though. And I also think we have lost the aura and benefit of the doubt with the picks we make, like we have had in the past. I think justifiably so, there.

I can understand passing on Liljegren. Have a much harder time passing on Vilardi and Necas, personally. I'm more optimistic about Cholowski than Rasmussen at the moment. We will see how this plays out, it's still far too early to tell.

 

[Heaton]

Cholowski is a much, much better skater which is good considering it's the main fact holding XO back from being a pretty damn good player.

His skating is drastically better. Also longer.

Absolutely, but he still reminds me of XO in every other area.

 

[Frk It]

Absolutely, but he still reminds me of XO in every other area.

Well, a drastically better skating XO would be a really nice player to have. To be honest.

 

[Heaton]

Well, a drastically better skating XO would be a really nice player to have. To be honest.

I really want to see a big offensive year out of Cholo, he has a real opportunity to become a big part of this team and earn a lot of money quickly.

 

[Frk It]

I really want to see a big offensive year out of Cholo, he has a real opportunity to become a big part of this team and earn a lot of money quickly.

Same. He at least needs to be on par with Kale Clague, IMO. That should be a good measuring stick. He's also competing with him for a spot on Team Canada.