Other fan's perspective

[OilerSuperstar17]

Whats up peeps!

Just popping through cause I've been thinking a lot about your teams drafting over the last couple years ('16 and '17), focusing on the first round picks specifically and wanted to get your thoughts.

First, in 2016 you guys had the 16th pick and with that had the opportunity to pluck Jakob Chychrun. I understood the need to trade Datsyuk since he had left but it didn't make sense to me that they would pass him up for Dennis Cholowski.

Second, in 2017 you guys had the 9th pick and went with Michael Rasmussen. A solid pick but with a bunch of defenseman available I was surprised, especially with a talent like Liljegren available.

What I'm getting at is that it seems Detroit has lost some if its touch at the draft and as an NHL fan I was hoping the team would build their D core from the last two drafts with Chychrun and Liljegren. And who knows, with the 2018 draft, maybe they could end up with Dahlin. I'm hurting for you guys because I would have loved to see Chychrun, Liljegren, and (hopefully) Dahlin patrolling that blueline in the future passing the puck up to Larkin, Svechnikov, Mantha, Tatar, and Nyquist.

How do you guys feel about the drafting your team has done the last few years?

Click to read more...

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Just because Detroit didn't pick people you wanted doesn't mean they lost their touch. But the picking has been questionable. Especially wanting cholo over people like fabbro/chy. They were gonna pick him over them at that position anyway


I feel like the 2nd round picks and on have been pretty good. Hronek. Saarijarvi and more. But the first round these past two years have been brutal

 

[avssuc]

How do you guys feel about the drafting your team has done the last few years?

I feel much like you do (in terms of the 1st round of late). Trading away the Datsyuk contract was seen as a stroke of Holland genius by many here when it was anything but. First, it permitted him to spend recklessly on July 1 (something we've come to expect every year), and it also did what you mentioned. So the Wings missed on defenseman that might have been 2nd best on their team last year, and they got saddled with another miserable contract.

The Rasmussen pick was collectively disliked around here. Liljegren wasn't first on the list at #9, but I wouldn't have been upset with that pick. Rasmussen doesn't fill the more specific need at C, so just about anyone hyped in that area of the draft would have been better, even a W.

I'm not one of the draft gurus though, so I'm sure you will get more insightful opinions from others. Thanks for stopping in and offering your sympathy. Hopefully the lottery balls are as sympathetic next draft. I suspect it will be pretty tough to mess up the 1st overall. That said, the Wings (Holland) could always trade back... that's my nightmare anyway.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This feels like a bait thread.

 

[Henkka]

We'll see in 5 years how good the drafting was.

 

[Martinez]

Toss us some of that draft lottery magic

 

[avssuc]

This feels like a bait thread.

Might be, but I suspect it's going to get far worse. Fans around the league aren't the least bit sympathetic when it comes to the death of a dynasty. They aren't even sympathetic when the team is a perennial loser. The ESPN Lions forum was savage in and around their 0-16 season, so at least we aren't there yet.

Not to be lame, but we might be around season 1 here....

 

[vladdy16]

Whats up peeps!

Just popping through cause I've been thinking a lot about your teams drafting over the last couple years ('16 and '17), focusing on the first round picks specifically and wanted to get your thoughts.

First, in 2016 you guys had the 16th pick and with that had the opportunity to pluck Jakob Chychrun. I understood the need to trade Datsyuk since he had left but it didn't make sense to me that they would pass him up for Dennis Cholowski.

Second, in 2017 you guys had the 9th pick and went with Michael Rasmussen. A solid pick but with a bunch of defenseman available I was surprised, especially with a talent like Liljegren available.

What I'm getting at is that it seems Detroit has lost some if its touch at the draft and as an NHL fan I was hoping the team would build their D core from the last two drafts with Chychrun and Liljegren. And who knows, with the 2018 draft, maybe they could end up with Dahlin. I'm hurting for you guys because I would have loved to see Chychrun, Liljegren, and (hopefully) Dahlin patrolling that blueline in the future passing the puck up to Larkin, Svechnikov, Mantha, Tatar, and Nyquist.

How do you guys feel about the drafting your team has done the last few years?

I think the drafting over the past few years has been the best it's been since the late 80's/early 90's. A consistent and measured thought process, leading to an abundence of uniquely skilled rink rats, and a timeline in place for them to take the reigns.

In terms of the defense I think the Red Wings have been mature in terms of selecting guys that they think will be great 10 years down the road, as opposed to guys that may have a more recognizable pedigree atm, but who might always be one dimensional or burn out quickly.

 

[HisNoodliness]

We might as well discuss Wright's picks as a whole.
His first 1st rounder was Larkin. At the time I hated the pick as I thought of Larkin as "Helm with hands," and a C whose feet moved faster than his brain. It seemed like a low ceiling pick. Obviously I've had to eat crow on this one a bit as Larkin has played better than expected. Still a lot of those criticisms have followed him and this last season exposed some weaknesses. Hopefully he can find his game better and make this puck the slam-dunk it momentarily looked like.

Next was Svechnikov. I didn't/don't love the pick as we had/have much greater areas of need. Still he's a skilled player who has generally done well since being drafted. I'll say it was a good pick.

The next year was interesting. Cholo hasn't really done anything since being drafted to be confidence inspiring. When you watch him play you can see the skating/passing/IQ that justify the pick but he hasn't been a difference maker. I'm not a fan of the pick, especially in the context of the trade which lost us Chychrun who would have been our best D prospect by far.

I absolutely hated the Rasmussen pick. I'd have taken Necas or Vilardi over him without hesitation. I still think it was dumb. Hopefully he can prove us wrong going forward.

So concerning his first round picks I'll say that Wright has performed "ok." It's pretty early to be passing judgement on him but he's shown a pretty clear draft philosophy that undervalues skill and elite potential.

His two best picks IMO have been Saarijarvi and Hronek. Each has performed well post draft and done better than respective draft spots. I'll give him a big plus for them. He hasn't really drafted anyone that has great potential outside of them outside the first so I don't see him as some late round hero. It's still pretty early to judge a lot of the picks though. We will see.

In summary I'd say our drafting is fine but unspectacular. It doesn't look like we have a clear advantage which will help us rebuild even if we don't have high picks. I also don't think it will be our downfall. This team is mismanaged in many ways, but drafting isn't The biggest issue. The Rasmussen pick needs to exceed my expectations though. Otherwise it will be a huge blunder for the franchise. We need at least a top 6 C out of him and I doubt we'll get it.

 

[BinCookin]

How do you guys feel about the drafting your team has done the last few years?

entirely too early to judge these names.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Whats up peeps!

Just popping through cause I've been thinking a lot about your teams drafting over the last couple years ('16 and '17), focusing on the first round picks specifically and wanted to get your thoughts.

First, in 2016 you guys had the 16th pick and with that had the opportunity to pluck Jakob Chychrun. I understood the need to trade Datsyuk since he had left but it didn't make sense to me that they would pass him up for Dennis Cholowski.

Second, in 2017 you guys had the 9th pick and went with Michael Rasmussen. A solid pick but with a bunch of defenseman available I was surprised, especially with a talent like Liljegren available.

What I'm getting at is that it seems Detroit has lost some if its touch at the draft and as an NHL fan I was hoping the team would build their D core from the last two drafts with Chychrun and Liljegren. And who knows, with the 2018 draft, maybe they could end up with Dahlin. I'm hurting for you guys because I would have loved to see Chychrun, Liljegren, and (hopefully) Dahlin patrolling that blueline in the future passing the puck up to Larkin, Svechnikov, Mantha, Tatar, and Nyquist.

How do you guys feel about the drafting your team has done the last few years?

I feel like you should go back to the Oilers boards if you're just going to spout a weak argument about how the Wings have "lost their touch", because they didn't take a couple defenseman men that freefell from being talked about as top pick guys to the middle of the first round. Did the other teams who passed on those guys "lose their touch".

 

[Go Wings]

Not drafting Chychrun was a mistake I knew that at the time they passed on him. However not drafting Liljgren wqs smart that guy cannot defend to save his life. Detroit should have taken Vilardi, Necas or Suzuki instead of Rasmussen or even traded down for a guy like Norris or Brannstrom

 

[The Zermanator]

Not drafting Chychrun was a mistake I knew that at the time they passed on him. However not drafting Liljgren wqs smart that guy cannot defend to save his life. Detroit should have taken Vilardi, Necas or Suzuki instead of Rasmussen or even traded down for a guy like Norris or Brannstrom

I agree with this, felt that way at the time as well. But when it happened, I had an open mind. I thought Holland was clearing space because he knew he could make a strong push for Stamkos. Datsyuk and Chychrun for Stamkos and Cholowski is not a bad tradeoff at all. But Holland couldn't even get on the phone with Stamkos. I don't know what he was thinking making a move that could have a big impact on the future of this team when he obviously had absolutely no indication that Stamkos would even consider Detroit.

And when Stamkos falls through without even getting a kick at the can, what does he do? He signs two 30+ players to 5+ year deals, eating up all the cap space that was gained.

So in the end, Holland traded down several spots in the draft for the great privilege of locking up Nielsen and Helm to 6 and 5 years.

 

[Frk It]

I feel like you should go back to the Oilers boards if you're just going to spout a weak argument about how the Wings have "lost their touch", because they didn't take a couple defenseman men that freefell from being talked about as top pick guys to the middle of the first round. Did the other teams who passed on those guys "lose their touch".

Don't really think they were out of line sharing their opinion here, or were disrespectful about it...

But then again, I'm not a fan of our last two 1st rounders and have said as much, so maybe it's just because I agree with them.

And national writers like Pronman are in agreeance with what the OP is saying, so not like it's out of thin air. Hard to say those two picks aren't controversial, tbh. The jury is definitely out, but I see where people are coming from.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Nobody wanted Larkin or Mantha either. Time will tell with these picks.

 

[izlez]

Ugh.

When you're like the 4th best defenseman on a team that let up 260 goals, perhaps it's a little too soon to act like you've "made it" in the NHL

Because they didn't take the guys you wanted, doesn't mean they are bad. Way too soon to be discussing these players like this

 

[Ezekial]

Not to mention the fact that if we took him no one would be saying he's made it in the NHL.

Don't mention the other player we got out of the deal either. The fact of the matter is in 3 years we COULD have 2 defenders that are better players than Chych, no use in *****ing about it now.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Nobody wanted Larkin or Mantha either. Time will tell with these picks.

I'm pretty sure everyone wanted Mantha. I know I sure did. I really didn't want Larkin though so your point stands.

 

[Frk It]

Nobody wanted Larkin or Mantha either. Time will tell with these picks.

I loved the Mantha pick. Others did too, so that's not exactly true. No one was doubting his skill level or talent from what I remember.

Larkin pick was mostly received as 'meh' until Tyler Wright called him "Helm with hands".

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'm pretty sure everyone wanted Mantha. I know I sure did. I really didn't want Larkin though so your point stands.

I loved the Mantha pick. Others did too, so that's not exactly true. No one was doubting his skill level or talent from what I remember.

Larkin pick was mostly received as 'meh' until Tyler Wright called him "Helm with hands".

From what I remember, the consensus was not to take Larkin or Mantha.

 

[HisNoodliness]

From what I remember, the consensus was not to take Larkin or Mantha.

If you flip through the 2013 draft thread you'll see that almost everyone was happy with Mantha. Some wanted Shinkaruk because he fell so far but essentially no one disliked the pick and he was #1 on a lot of lists. We were also all happy with that SJ trade because we wanted Mantha at 18 anyway.

Larkin on the other hand was generally hated. For me he was the 1 guy I really didn't want. I was pulling hard for Fabbri (the consensus pick I think) which would have been a great pick too FWIW.

 

[Frk It]

From what I remember, the consensus was not to take Larkin or Mantha.

I mean Mantha was a 6'5" 50 goal scorer who could skate and fell to the 20's.... Regardless, these last 2 drafts are a totally different story.

You had two guys who were ranked top 5 for basically their entire draft season fall and be available for Detroit (Chyrchun and Vilardi), and have Detroit pass on them for a very late rising kid from the BCHL and a big center with question marks with his ES production.

I mean it's significantly more controversial than anything they have done prior. Right or wrong. I've read articles about how Holland has re-dedicated himself to scouting and attends more prospect tournaments and events than other General Managers, and I do believe he is a good scout and evaluator of junior aged players. But you also have to realize that our picks will be scrutinized more since we stand to be drafting higher, and are in more of a desperate need for elite players. People will cut you slack when you are drafting late teens or in the 20's every year.

 

[jkutswings]

I still don't like the Larkin pick, from the standpoint that the kid has yet to demonstrate that he's taking responsibility for diversifying and growing his game.

Now if those "dungeon rink rat" pics actually translate into him figuring out that being one dimensional on offense doesn't cut it - and he takes ownership of fixing that problem (and sticks with it) - then kudos to him, and I'll change my tune.

But despite his potential, I don't like the player (or what I think he's most likely to do, going forward) thus far. Now one can argue that's as much a coaching/discipline issue as a drafting issue, but the kid still rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Flowah]

Nobody wanted Larkin or Mantha either. Time will tell with these picks.

That's not what I remember at all. People loved/liked those picks. Not much criticism.

Here's Larkin's thread.

"I'm happy with this."
"I don't mind the pick"
"I am happy with this."
"Nice pick!"
"future capt material. good enough"
"good size and a C. Not who I expected but still good"
"I like this pick a lot."
"Can't go wrong with an all-around player that likes to bring his A game every night."
"A Helm with better hands is absolutely a player you take a 15."

I'm not going through the whole thread. It's 30 damn pages. But even taken as hyperbole, your "nobody wanted" doesn't pass the sniff test.

I think you need to reevaluate your opinion of people's criticism of this team. You seem to instantly assume that everyone craps over everything for no reason but that's just not true. People are pretty measured about what they're criticizing and it's usually not without merit.

 

[Ezekial]

I still don't like the Larkin pick, from the standpoint that the kid has yet to demonstrate that he's taking responsibility for diversifying and growing his game.

Except to end the season and at the WCs it looked like he was.